2010 Game Plan

[SaintWodonga]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

[rodgerfox]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

[saintsRrising]

- but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

Yeh...if he lifts his game we might actually win a game or two in 2010..

[saintdooley]

i saw the G at the races today
he said the boys will be determined to win it next year and will push themselves to make up for this year.
also saw baker but he had a few too many to have a detailed convo.

[SainterK]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

A big concern? That's quite emotive for you Roger, given that you are just a casual observer of the game?

[Moods]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

In what way Roger? I rate him as one of the best game day coaches in the game. Don't say he was outcoached on GF day either b/c he wasn't. WE just didn't kick straight and had control of the game for 3 quarters.

[Thinline]

i saw the G at the races today
he said the boys will be determined to win it next year and will push themselves to make up for this year.
also saw baker but he had a few too many to have a detailed convo.

Baker should be doing tyre sprints.

He shouldn't be on the ketchup.

There goes '10.









I'm joking....

[bigcarl]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

i'm thinking along the same lines as you saintwodonga.

a pressing concern will be finding a third tallish forward who can kick goals as well as defend.

maybe ross has lovett or peake in mind or perhaps their addition will allow us to release someone forward like goddard (or gilbert or ray or fisher or raph) who can do that role.

exciting times ahead.

[rodgerfox]

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

In what way Roger? I rate him as one of the best game day coaches in the game. Don't say he was outcoached on GF day either b/c he wasn't. WE just didn't kick straight and had control of the game for 3 quarters.

I don't think he's a good game day coach.

I think he's an excellent preparer for game day. He knows the opposition inside and out, and rarely lets someone slip under our guard.

He's probably the best coach in terms of preparation, in the comp.



But on game day, the only tactic he seems to have is 'kick it to Roo'. It worked for most of the year, but not when it counted. And it was never going to work in the GF, never. My biggest fear leading into that game was that he'd play that card. He panicked and did.

I still can't get past that.

I haven't seen anything 'brilliant' on game day from Lyon.

[rodgerfox]

- but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

Yeh...if he lifts his game we might actually win a game or two in 2010..

Game day coaching cost us one very important game. I don't really care about the others.

[St Fidelius]

The move of Goddard as the third tall in Round 3 was pretty good.

He booted 4 goals in that match

[rodgerfox]

The move of Goddard as the third tall in Round 3 was pretty good.

He booted 4 goals in that match

That was preparation.

He started forward.

[ThePunter]

I think the Lovett and Peake moves demonstrate the RL and the match committee has a fair idea about one of our weaknesses.

Lynch is the long term answer to our other weakness, with Gwilt to fill in, in the meantime. The question is whether Gwilt is good enough to be in the team on his performance. We certainly play better with him in the side.

[aussiejones]

Roo is a star , but , we need options as he cannot be expected to kick it off his own boot each time .

Having Roo attracts defenders to him which must leave unattended forwards who need to put themselves in a position to get the ball.

I had hoped Kosi was the man , but its far too infrequently .

Lyon has a job to do getting our forwards more of the Geelong style , bigger bodied types to share the load without expecting the mids to do it.

[rodgerfox]

Roo is a star , but , we need options as he cannot be expected to kick it off his own boot each time .

Having Roo attracts defenders to him which must leave unattended forwards who need to put themselves in a position to get the ball.

I had hoped Kosi was the man , but its far too infrequently .

Lyon has a job to do getting our forwards more of the Geelong style , bigger bodied types to share the load without expecting the mids to do it.

This is what bothers me. Our forward line can function really well. In the GF, we had ample opportunities to win it - whilst Roo and Kosi were ineffectual in a scoreboard sense.

It was working. We didn't need a '3rd tall' or pace, or anything. What he had, was working.

So what do we do, whilst in front in the last quarter?? Instruct our players to 'bomb it long' to the talls!


I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record and becoming annoying in doing so, but I just can't understand why a coach would do that.

Anyway, I'll let it go and move on.

[SainterK]

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

In what way Roger? I rate him as one of the best game day coaches in the game. Don't say he was outcoached on GF day either b/c he wasn't. WE just didn't kick straight and had control of the game for 3 quarters.

I don't think he's a good game day coach.

I think he's an excellent preparer for game day. He knows the opposition inside and out, and rarely lets someone slip under our guard.

He's probably the best coach in terms of preparation, in the comp.



But on game day, the only tactic he seems to have is 'kick it to Roo'. It worked for most of the year, but not when it counted. And it was never going to work in the GF, never. My biggest fear leading into that game was that he'd play that card. He panicked and did.

I still can't get past that.

I haven't seen anything 'brilliant' on game day from Lyon.

I completely disagree, I think he was a very reactive coach this year, but that is another discussion.

I certainly don't think we won our first 3 games by kicking it to Roo, given that he had a slower start to the season due to injury.

As to whether it's an instruction to kick it to Roo all the time, perhaps that is an assumption on your part. It is entirely possible that the players have formed habits of honouring his leads?

I personally would like to see a lot more players take their opportunities on goal next year, and not always look to pass it off. Dal proved this year that he is more than capable of taking a shot rather than kicking the ball to a contested situation.

With the exception of Dal, all our midfielders kicked a lot less goals this year than the previous...here are some examples.

Ball - 3 (7)
Dal - 16 (12)
Joey - 8 (12)
Gram - 12 (20)

Something that can easily be addressed over summer...and also an attribute that Lovett brings to the table.

[BringBackMadDog]

With us sneaking up this year, we got under many people's guard.
I think other teams will have a good look at us over the off season.

I am sure Ross knows best, but in order for us to take the next level, I think a slight adjustment must be made.

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

Lyon has had his eye on Peake for a while, he sees something that I do not yet see. Let's hope he breaks packs & kicks goals.

Anyone who thinks the sky is falling and our window is shut should fair dinkum take up darts.

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

Yep big concern....we only lost 3 games all year!!! If only Ross could learn to kick straight from the coaches box we would have won the big one DAMN HIM TO HELL!!!!
You are becoming a tad boring Rodge

[meher baba]

Interesting discussion.

There is no question that Lyon has molded the excellent talent that the club has assembled over the past decade into an on-field juggernaut that (other in the games against the Bombers and the Roos when we didn't have our foot on the pedal) presented our opponents with a near-insurmountable problem during 2009.

Was the fact that we didn't end up with a flag due to the fact that Lyon isn't quite up to it as a match day coach? I don't think so.

We should have won the GF: Geelong didn't outplay us and Thompson certainly didn't outcoach Lyon. We were by far the better team on the day in terms of general play, but didn't take our crucial chances in front of goal. Geelong did extremely well to stay close enough to be able to capitalise on our missed opportunities.

I don't see how Lyon's match day tactics can be held responsible for any of this: the likes of Kosi, Riewoldt, Milne and our midfielders have been unreliable kicks at goal under pressure throughout their careers (even at Docklands under the roof with no wind, let alone on the MCG on a blustery day). Schneider missing some crucial kicks was a bit of a surprise, but these things happen under pressure: I don't see what Lyon could have done about it (or even how he could have predicted it.

In terms of next season: like sharks, football teams have to keep moving forward or they die. Without adjustment, our 2009 approach can't be expected to work as well in 2010.

If it is true that Lyon continues to be worried about our "run and carry" through the midfield, I am 100% in agreement wiith him. This has been a problem at the club for years: it was the root cause of our "chipalotto" tendencies (which are unfairly blamed on Lyon, but actually first emerged in 2005-06 under GT: although they got to their worst in 2007 and the first half of 2008).

If you compare us to Geelong, we can match or better them in just about every area except "run and carry". The Cats have an extra gear in terms of thrust up the ground which they seem to be able to switch on when they are in trouble. We can't hope quite to emulate this (there is, after all, only one Gary Ablett Jnr), but we could be much better.

I guess this is where Lovett and Peake come in: Lovett, in particular, is a guy who gan give a lot of additional thrust up the middle (I really can't understand why the Bombers let him go, and hope that there isn't a hidden issue that will operate to our detriment).

So, really, it's all good IMO. We are strengthening in the areas in which we need to strengthen. Personally, I wouldn't want to let Ball go (and perhaps it still won't happen).

Now, if we can just do something about that goal kicking...................

[meher baba]

P.S. As for the "kick it to Roo" issue, that's what Roo is there for. I have no problem with that as long as we have a plan B when Roo is triple-teamed (he can usually cope with being double-teamed!!).

We did for most of the season in the shape of Kosi, but his form dropped away a bit towards the end.

Is the answer to find a magical "third forward"? I'm not convinced. A good third forward of the Hamill type should be able to kick some goals, but they are mainly there for structural reasons and to apply physical pressure. I thought Gwilt did this ok and, if it were up to me, I would continue to use him in the role.

The likes of BJ, Lovett, etc. are wasted up forward. Dempster is just a bits and pieces player and, as he showed in the GF, he isn't a great kick for goal.

Alternatively, I'd like to see what Lynch can do.

[bigcarl]

A good third forward of the Hamill type should be able to kick some goals.

agree. all forwards should be able to impact on the scoreboard.

that should be their primary role though i have seen the benefits a negating type can provide in keeping the ball in our forward line.

the ideal candidate can do both, so to me that rules out dempster and gwilt on account of them not being dangerous enough on goal.

imo that third forward spot is not a position to be filled by the 20th or 22nd player on the list. it needs to be someone dangerous enough that the opposition has to commit some resources to minding him.

he needs to be strong aerially as well as adept once it hits the ground. someone who can possibly go to ff if what we are doing isn't working on the day.

perhaps ross has lovett in mind or maybe the addition of guys such as lovett and peake will allow us to release someone like bj, gilbert, fisher, raph, or ray.

i think finding a third forward who can kick goals as well as defend is a priority. not a magical answer to everything, but a priority.

[Eastern]

The move of Goddard as the third tall in Round 3 was pretty good.

He booted 4 goals in that match

Booted them all in the 1st Q, then went into the midfield, then went to Half Back and dominated both of those parts of the ground too. He was everywhere that day !!

[markp]

The game plan is sound - but Lyon's 'game day' coaching is a big concern.

In what way Roger? I rate him as one of the best game day coaches in the game. Don't say he was outcoached on GF day either b/c he wasn't. WE just didn't kick straight and had control of the game for 3 quarters.

I don't think he's a good game day coach.

I think he's an excellent preparer for game day. He knows the opposition inside and out, and rarely lets someone slip under our guard.

He's probably the best coach in terms of preparation, in the comp.



But on game day, the only tactic he seems to have is 'kick it to Roo'. It worked for most of the year, but not when it counted. And it was never going to work in the GF, never. My biggest fear leading into that game was that he'd play that card. He panicked and did.

I still can't get past that.

I haven't seen anything 'brilliant' on game day from Lyon.

You dont get to many games do you?

Cant count the times this season that teams were getting on top of us early, but after the quarter time or halftime break we gained ascendancy.

Funny about that... maybe it was just the oranges.

[rodgerfox]

Cant count the times this season that teams were getting on top of us early, but after the quarter time or halftime break we gained ascendancy.

Funny about that... maybe it was just the oranges.

Do you have any examples of this? And specifically what Lyon did 'on game day' to turn these games?

And don't get confused with getting the players to adhere to the plan better. Because that, and some individual brilliance was more often the reason for our wins.

[Beej]

It's clear we have our defensive skills down pat. However, I really think we need to kick all more goals and be more attacking in 2010.
RL has addressed some speed & more attack with recruiting Lovett & Peake.

I don't think it's possible to be more attacking while being just as defensive.

There's a perfect balance there somewhere that we found this year.

For example, Carlton are an extremely attacking side and when they're all bombing forward they can be hard to stop - any side is. However, where these super-attacking sides come undone is, when they turn it over, all their players who have taken the initiative to attack, are suddenly in no-mans land and find it difficult to get back and clog up space.

When they're not on song or their midfielders aren't winning first use, opposition sides can score at will.

With us, we were always in games even when we weren't playing well due to our defensive mindset and our ability to limit the scoring. (3 losses for a combined total of 20 points)

Lyon said earlier this year something along the lines of the players now understanding that they can still attack while having a defensive-mindset, which is so true. Without the footy, when a side is supposed to be defending, we were attacking teams and locking them in their own defensive-50.

Geelong are an attacking side as well but they're able to limit much of the scoring against them due to the fact they have some of the best man-on-man defenders in the competition (Scarlett, Milburn, Enright, Harley) - Carlton don't have that luxury and therefore have the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as we saw so beautifully illustrated at the Gabba in the elimination final.

Call it defensive or a defensive-mindset or opposition supporters may call it boring but I really enjoy our brand of footy.

[Milton66]

P.S. As for the "kick it to Roo" issue, that's what Roo is there for. I have no problem with that as long as we have a plan B when Roo is triple-teamed (he can usually cope with being double-teamed!!).

We did for most of the season in the shape of Kosi, but his form dropped away a bit towards the end.

Is the answer to find a magical "third forward"? I'm not convinced. A good third forward of the Hamill type should be able to kick some goals, but they are mainly there for structural reasons and to apply physical pressure. I thought Gwilt did this ok and, if it were up to me, I would continue to use him in the role.

The likes of BJ, Lovett, etc. are wasted up forward. Dempster is just a bits and pieces player and, as he showed in the GF, he isn't a great kick for goal.

Alternatively, I'd like to see what Lynch can do.

Both excellent logical posts that saved me a fair bit of typing, MB. I am impressed.