Have we altered our game plan?

[rodgerfox]

I don't think we're playing the same brand of footy we did earlier in the year.

Our style seems to have reverted back to be a bit closer to what we saw in early 08.

We don't take many risks. Don't move it very quickly, and get caught chipping the ball around.

We're also relying heavily on Roo's brilliance to get us over the line.

Does anyone else think our style has changed?


Is this Lyon's 'finals version' of our game plan? Have we tweaked things as September requires something a bit different?

We struggled to score against North, then the Dees to an extent. In both finals it was dour defence, strangulation really that has kept us in the game and won it for us really.

But we have struggled to kick big scores.


Are we just struggling a bit for form? Or have we been worked out a bit?

Or, have we changed things a bit as a tactical decision to counter the teams we're going to face in September?

[bigcarl]

We don't take many risks. Don't move it very quickly, and get caught chipping the ball around.

We're also relying heavily on Roo's brilliance to get us over the line.

Does anyone else think our style has changed?

i'll bet you that the gameplan hasn't changed.

what i think happened was the players subconsciously tightened up for a nerve-wracking preliminary final.

the consequences of losing on friday night were unthinkable after the season we've had.

last week they were thinking "DON'T LOSE". this week they will be thinking "WIN".

[rodgerfox]

We don't take many risks. Don't move it very quickly, and get caught chipping the ball around.

We're also relying heavily on Roo's brilliance to get us over the line.

Does anyone else think our style has changed?

i think the players subconsciously tightened up for a nerve-wracking preliminary final on friday night.

the consequences of losing on friday night were unthinkable after the season we've had.

last week they were thinking "DON'T LOSE". this week they will be thinking "WIN".

I noticed it against Collingwood more than anything.

We weren't taking risks, and more to the point weren't taking risks up the corridor.

[jonesy]

We're going to have to take risks this week,and pull them off. We can't expect to kick 8-11 goals and win the game against Geelong. There midfield get that much of the ball that they are going to get ample opportunities.,they won't kick 7 goals

[bigcarl]

I noticed it against Collingwood more than anything.

We weren't taking risks, and more to the point weren't taking risks up the corridor.

i've noticed it too.

we were expected to win both matches and the consequences of not at least making the grand final would have been weighing heavily on their minds.

i think it has been this rather than any instructions from the coaches or change in gameplan.

this week we go in as underdogs. the hunters rather than the hunted. different mindset.

hopefully we'll see some of the flair and risk-taking evident in round 14.

as has been pointed out, we'll need more goals to win.

[Milton66]

I think we've been worked out somewhat, and opp coaches have tried to devise ways to beat us. Eade came very close, but in the end we won.

The big difference IMO is that we can no longer disctate as much as we did.

[rodgerfox]

We're going to have to take risks this week,and pull them off. We can't expect to kick 8-11 goals and win the game against Geelong. There midfield get that much of the ball that they are going to get ample opportunities.,they won't kick 7 goals

Hmmm.

It's an interesting one isn't it.


Lyon is no fool, nor are his assistants.

Whatever we're doing, we're doing for a reason. To be honest, I don't think you can win 3 games in a row (including 2 finals) if you're not playing well.

The odd thing is, we don't look to be playing well!

[asiu]

first step is ...take the momentum

hard to play 'your' way , when the other **** have the momentum


we seem willing to let the 'other side ' wear emselves out a bit , and then reel em back in ....ie , to willing to give the other mob momentum


rather smash em , but ,in the end ....... whatever it takes

just **** win , i dont care how

just win

[rodgerfox]

I think we've been worked out somewhat, and opp coaches have tried to devise ways to beat us. Eade came very close, but in the end we won.

The big difference IMO is that we can no longer disctate as much as we did.

What became very apparent, is that we needed to win some stats to win games.

ie. the games were beaten in contested footy were the games we were beaten in or nearly beaten in.

I just wonder if Lyon and his brains trust have tried to address this. Maybe we were a bit of a one-trick pony. Beat us in contested footy and you beat us on the scoreboard.

In the 2 finals we've played, correct me if I'm wrong, but contested footy hasn't been in our favour - yet we've won.

[Milton66]

I think we've been worked out somewhat, and opp coaches have tried to devise ways to beat us. Eade came very close, but in the end we won.

The big difference IMO is that we can no longer disctate as much as we did.

What became very apparent, is that we needed to win some stats to win games.

ie. the games were beaten in contested footy were the games we were beaten in or nearly beaten in.

I just wonder if Lyon and his brains trust have tried to address this. Maybe we were a bit of a one-trick pony. Beat us in contested footy and you beat us on the scoreboard.

In the 2 finals we've played, correct me if I'm wrong, but contested footy hasn't been in our favour - yet we've won.

Training regime may have played a part in it.

I don't think we're a one-trick pony at all. 2 ways to look at it: we won when we lost the CF, so we are very efficient. Win the CF and we win the flag.

I think the real difference has been that some teams are trying to deny us the footy, but when we get it, we punish them.

So, even on that basis... if we can get first use and keep possesion, we'll win.

We'll find out next week.

[PJ]

I think we have definately become more defensive - less willing to take the opposition on. We are way more cautious whether thats any instruction or just player response to the situation. I personally think it's the latter and it's not helped by our poor disposal which is a recent phenomenon brought about by the pressure applied by the opposition. Ray, Gram, Fisher and sometimes Goddard have become way more suspect with their disposal coming out of defense and around the stoppages. Having said that it can all change in the blink of an eyelid - i don't think Geelong can apply as much pressure across the whole paddock as the bullies did with their speed. They have holes regardless of what you saw on Saturday and we can exploit this - match ups will be crucial.

[Thinline]

The only the thing we haven't been doing which we were doing is winning the really tough contested footy regularly and clearing it and to be honest I'm not really sure why we aren't. It's not for lack of effort. I have noticed that opposition sometimes seem to be squeezing our getters in close to the ruckmen. This means the rucks go over the getters and the ball is more of a 50-50 than it would ideally be and/or the whole thing winds up stacks on the mill and there's a secondary bounce. That's what I've noticed anyway. Maybe we simply aren't as clean inside as we once were.

If we don't break even in contested ball in the GF we'll struggle to get any momentum.

I must say the Collingwood game really didn't concern me one way or another. Fact was Geelong looked vulnerable when placed under some heat in the first half and no one in the comp applies heat like we do. Further, there is NO FREAKIN' WAY 09 St Kilda would have folded in the pathetic, shambolic way the Pies did because a) we are us, not them and b) we are older and more seasoned.

As long as our pressure results in TAKEN scoring opps, we are well in it.

[asiu]

we've struggled to crack the code on consistent clean usage of the ball , consistently this year imo

and we are still in the granny ....go figure


how good are we gunna be ?... that is the question

its time to click boys

[bigcarl]

its time to click boys

yep, turn the switch to WIN.

[Thinline]

Yep. All about handling the occasion like Brisbane did vs Bombers a few years back. Absorb, absorb, absorb then leap.

[skeptic]

the last 2 weeks, esp early in the game, we' ve struggled to get our hands on the pill

we play betterafter 1/4 time and generally win more ball

[asiu]

and really , we are a 'team' on the rise

the snipers are a bunch of old dudes/team on the wane

we are getting better , they are falling away



take what is ours , saints

[Milton66]

I still reckon people have underestimated the Doggies.

The reason for the slow starts is that teams set themselves to hit us early.

Problem is that many have been unable to sustain it it. Dogs and Cats being the notable exceptions, where the game could have gone either way.

Loss of poise isn't a loss of skill. It's because of teams working us out and trying to match with intensity and their own pressure.

[saint-stu]

What about tackling?

On a few occasions I wondered why our guys weren't tackling the player with the ball.

When we looked our best, we had multiple players going in to tackle hard, one after the other.

Is this a conscious decision?

[bigcarl]

I still reckon people have underestimated the Doggies.

not me. i rate them very highly, not far off the cats. if they'd been in the other side of the draw they might well have won through to the grand final.

very good side and well coached.

the only mistake eade has made has been in failing to develop or recruit a key forward.

[Milton66]

People forget that Cats under Blight and us in 04-06 played great attacking footy and it got both teams SFA.

Flags are won from defence. If teams cut our scoring, we are always good enough to keep them to less goals. That will be the key this week.

As Fisher said: they keep to their structures and keep grinding away.

If we allow Geelong to have a quater where they outscore us by 3 or 4 goals, we're stuffed.

I don't give a rat's arse if we only score 7 goals... as long as the CAts score 6.

[Moods]

I agree with RF. We've gotta take more risks and just take the game on. Thought we lost the contested footy on Friday night.

Inside 50's told a story. Only 40 for us and 57 for them. THis is why we can't kick goals - it barely got down there. Our season average is 54 I think. That would equate to at least 3-4 more goals. I said to my mate at the game that it looked like the game was being played in the doggies fwd line. We defended superbly though. Gotta get more run from the backline - Gilbert. Gotta hold the ball in better in our fwd line - schneider, Milne and mini. THese blokes are crucial.

Hopefully the shackles have been released now that we're in it and we'll see the real saints this week.

[Milton66]

I agree with RF. We've gotta take more risks and just take the game on. Thought we lost the contested footy on Friday night.

Inside 50's told a story. Only 40 for us and 57 for them. THis is why we can't kick goals - it barely got down there. Our season average is 54 I think. That would equate to at least 3-4 more goals. I said to my mate at the game that it looked like the game was being played in the doggies fwd line. We defended superbly though. Gotta get more run from the backline - Gilbert. Gotta hold the ball in better in our fwd line - schneider, Milne and mini. THese blokes are crucial.

Hopefully the shackles have been released now that we're in it and we'll see the real saints this week.

It staggers me that people talk about the real St Kilda. The real St Kilda turned up on Friday... we just had a very good opposition.

Do people ignore the fact that there are 2 teams out there on any given day?

The reason it was played in their fwd 50 was because they outplayed us and stopped our run.

This team is well drilled and disciplined when it comes to structers and gameplan. Only 2 things can stop us...

1- If some players don't give 100%, it falls apart.

2- How well the Cats stop us from playing on our terms.

[rodgerfox]

I agree with RF. We've gotta take more risks and just take the game on.

I guess my question is though - have we purposely changed tact?

I just can't see how we can be beaten so badly in so many areas, yet win a Prelim - unless there was some method to it.

[bigcarl]

Inside 50's told a story. Only 40 for us and 57 for them. THis is why we can't kick goals - it barely got down there. Our season average is 54 I think.

agree, which is why the criticism of lack of goals from milney, schneider and kosi (including from me) is probably a little unfair.

as i've said in other posts, if we can at least break even in the midfield on saturday we're a very good chance.

imo our forward line and backline are better than theirs.