Mixed Message from the Club

[rodgerfox]

In a sense, there are some worrying signs....

We got rolled twice by ordinary teams. Very ordinary even.

We all know the details, and clearly only the delusional ones could be happy about it.

But the aftermath is what is a little concerning.


Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

He apparently berrated the players. Why?

If we're tapering training, then surely he'd know better than anyone that they're not physically able to do what he asked them to do. So why would you get into them if that was the case?

Apparently he berrated them for not doing the basics. For being complacent. Why?

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?



It's bit confusing at the moment.


And I must admit, a bit concerning.

[ausfatcat]

Why is that confusing?

We are tappering but that doesn't mean you forget the basics that you have built the side around, the players derserved to be berrated for not doing that. I'd go as far as if he didn't berrate the players for a piss poor effort I would be concerned.

If they failed to run out a game fair enough, but not doing the basics.

I fail to see how this is confusing to you, it's not a mixed message.

[Sainterman]

Why is that confusing?

We are tappering but that doesn't mean you forget the basics that you have built the side around, the players derserved to be berrated for not doing that. I'd go as far as if he didn't berrate the players for a piss poor effort I would be concerned.

If they failed to run out a game fair enough, but not doing the basics.

I fail to see how this is confusing to you.

Exactly, some of the skills on display deserved a good berating, and I am glad to hear he did this.

I didn't think the presser was that bad, and considering what a frustrating day at the footy it was yesterday, I am sure he was feeling quite similar to many of us. Probably did well to contain himself there.

Why don't we wait another couple of weeks and see what we get then...if it is like yesterday then hit the panic button, just don't think it is time to do that atm.

[rodgerfox]

Why is that confusing?

We are tappering but that doesn't mean you forget the basics that you have built the side around, the players derserved to be berrated for not doing that. I'd go as far as if he didn't berrate the players for a piss poor effort I would be concerned.

If they failed to run out a game fair enough, but not doing the basics.

I fail to see how this is confusing to you.

We've lost contested ball 4 or 5 times this year. This is apparently tha 'basics' that Lyon was savage about.

Why is he only now savage on it? Not the other times? If we're looking to September, tapering, engineering losses, resting good players etc., I'd think that in a R21 match against a dud opponent would be the least likely to trigger a bake from the coach.

[Spinner]

Would you rather him show he doesn't care about the loss?

Not confusing at all - Doing otherwise would also assist your 'arrogant' claim.....which actually contradicts its self within your own argument.

[rodgerfox]

Why don't we wait another couple of weeks and see what we get then...if it is like yesterday then hit the panic button, just don't think it is time to do that atm.

Not many have hit the panic button.

Some always will, it's footy fan nature. It's also footy fan nature to erect bronze statues of coaches and declare them geniuses - 3 months from September. It goes both ways. People get easily excited, and people get easily nervous too.

There are however, certainly grounds for concern. And as I've pointed out, not solely based on the performances of the past 2 weeks. But from the mixed messages coming from the club.

These mixed messages have pretty much started from the moment we started resting players only a month after our coach declared it arrogant to rest players.

Mixed messages lead to confusion, and confusion leads to concern.

[rodgerfox]

Would you rather him show he doesn't care about the loss?

Not confusing at all - Doing otherwise would also assist your 'arrogant' claim.....which actually contradicts its self within your own argument.

I'd rather him be consistent with his stance - for my own seflish needs. I'd like to be sure that everything is Ok, and that it's all under control.

To be a bit edgy in a presser after the worst fortnight we've put in for 18 months, then lose it with the playing group doesn't leave me feeling relaxed.

Especially since he's triggered the loss of momentum himself. Losing momentum is fine, if you're gauranteed to get it back precisely when you want it back.

Lyon's post match efforts, kind of give me the feeling that perhaps he's a bit worried.
If the coach 'engineers' a lull, then is himself worried a fortnight from the finals, I'd say that that isn't ideal.

[BaysideSaint]

lets just wait and see how tired collingwood are after the WBD game given that they have played in a losing NAB Cup final this season.

[TimPekin'sDirtyGuernsey]

We've lost contested ball 4 or 5 times this year. This is apparently tha 'basics' that Lyon was savage about.

Why is he only now savage on it? Not the other times? If we're looking to September, tapering, engineering losses, resting good players etc., I'd think that in a R21 match against a dud opponent would be the least likely to trigger a bake from the coach.

Maybe he has been on the previous occasions in team meetings and during the week - none of us know what gets said behind closed doors

[saintsRrising]

Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

Ah yes...some can't wait to put the knife into Lyon. Massive loss against a fired up team....how many goals did we go done by?

His interview was littlle different than many....and indeed a lot more polished that his first year at the club. Main differences was that the journos were being more negative in their questions.

But what to you want "Terry on Tuesday " performances or a coach just going through what the AFL require?

As to being guarded...yes great idea of yours for him to instead tell all the other finlaists what our plans and preapration for the finals are. No I think not.

Lyon has always been a bit guarded. It is his style.

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?

It's bit confusing at the moment.

And I must admit, a bit concerning.

Who believes apart from RF that Lyon is "Engineering Losses" ?

While Lyon , Misson and Co are most likely most focussed on doing what is best to prepare us for the finals...this is quite different from "Engineering Losses".

It just means that Finals preparation is now a higher priority than winning a H&A match which now has no priority as they will not influence our ladder postion.


As to Lyon and individual players...despite "Tapering", experimental positioning etc...there would still be individual apects of players performnces that need to be addressed.

[markp]

Another blatant shot at our coach and another blatant troll....

If you'd seen the presser you'd know how laughable the suggestion of him being 'pointy' and arrogant are.... and no one knows what was said to the players behind closed doors.

Look, I enjoy Saintsational and the lovable folk on here, but the day I log on whilst overseas is the day I really need to have a good, hard look at myself.

I can think of more reasons than that rodge....

[matrix]

maybe he forgot the password

[66 Saints]

regardless of any possible heavy training its a game we probably should have won. Losing by under a goal after giving a side a 30 point head start and having 56 inside 50's for 8 goals is worthy of a spray.

[nobhead]

In a sense, there are some worrying signs....

We got rolled twice by ordinary teams. Very ordinary even.

We all know the details, and clearly only the delusional ones could be happy about it.

But the aftermath is what is a little concerning.


Lyon was a bit pointy in his presser. Arrogant, and slightly guarded. He does this when he's struggling.

He apparently berrated the players. Why?
where you there when he supposedly berrated the players?
don't beleive everything you here.
ther will always be alot of crap flying around about what did and didn't happen .just have faith in the coaching staff and the players.
premiership is the only thing that matters rl has never sent mixed messages when it comes to that.

If we're tapering training, then surely he'd know better than anyone that they're not physically able to do what he asked them to do. So why would you get into them if that was the case?

Apparently he berrated them for not doing the basics. For being complacent. Why?

If Lyon is 'engineering losses' like people on here are suggesting, then why is he upset with the players for losing?

If the club is only looking to September, then why are the players getting berrated for poor performances in 'meaningless' games?



It's bit confusing at the moment.


And I must admit, a bit concerning.

[joffaboy]

Another blatant shot at our coach and another blatant troll....

If you'd seen the presser you'd know how laughable the suggestion of him being 'pointy' and arrogant are.... and no one knows what was said to the players behind closed doors.

....

Exactly markp.

It is laughable to suggest he was pointy (whatever the F that means?) and arrogant.

Why is this line being pushed as fact by RF?

About the third or fourth time RF has stated as fact that Lyon was arrogant in posts.

Trying to sow the seed no doubt.

Typically poor baiting.

And I would suggest that there was more to RF not logging on for months at a time than overseas. RF would have certainly found time if we had have had some losses.

Baiting is the modis opperandi.

Dont fall for the trolling.

[meher baba]

Personally, I would hope Lyon is feeling extremely arrogant ATM.

I wouldn't be wanting him to have too much self-doubt coaching the minor premiers going into a finals series.

I neither know nor really care if he berated the players. I'm not sure that berating the players after a loss does any good at all, but I'm also sure that it won't do much harm. These guys have been playing footy at all levels under a great variety of coaches for up to 25 years: they will undoubtedly have been sprayed after disappointing losses on many occasions and would have been fully expecting a spray. (On that basis, it might have been psychologically better for Lyon to have withheld the spray: a la Barassi's legendary - mythical? - wordless pointing at the scoreboard.)

We are minor premiers, regardless of the two losses. If we had won both games, we wouldn't somehow be extra minor premiers. So the results of the games didn't matter in any way whatsoever.

So, rf, if I were you I'd keep my anti-Lyon powder dry for a few weeks and see how we go in the finals. These losses don't prove anything about anything, least of all whether or not Lyon can coach.

Lyon can coach really well: reaching the PF last season after being way back at the break proved it. 19-2 in 2009 proves it even more.

Can he coach us to the flag this year? One thing I feel certain about is, assuming that I can stay on the right side of the ground for another month, I am going to find out.

[rodgerfox]

We are minor premiers, regardless of the two losses. If we had won both games, we wouldn't somehow be extra minor premiers. So the results of the games didn't matter in any way whatsoever.

The results are irrelevant. The performance certainly isn't.

So, rf, if I were you I'd keep my anti-Lyon powder dry for a few weeks and see how we go in the finals. These losses don't prove anything about anything, least of all whether or not Lyon can coach.

What these two performances have highlighted, is that our game plan isn't 'genius'.

We rely on our good players to be 100% switched on. When they're not, Lyon isn't the oracle some would have you believe.

He has some incredible talent at his disposal, talent that he as the coach, is responsible for getting the best out of.

For a long period of time, he's achieved that. For the past fortnight he hasn't.

If he can't in September, then he's basically an ordinary coach. If he can, then he's very good.

Lyon can coach really well: reaching the PF last season after being way back at the break proved it. 19-2 in 2009 proves it even more.

I've read that this list coaches itself. Thanks to Blight-lotto (I think I've heard it referred to) B4Eva's grandmother wcould coach these guys to a Prelim.

So really, getting this bunch to a Prelim isn't overly impressive. It's good, but surely expected.

Can he coach us to the flag this year?

He bloody well should.

Being 19-0 with a fully fit list of very, very good footballers, and having beaten every team in the comp - including one of the 'contenders' twice, means that we are biggest certainty in modern history.........


......or are we.

[SydneySainter]

Roger, you are perfectly entitled to feel a little worried about where the team and coaching panel are at and many supporters would feel that concern.

In regards to Lyon giving them a bake, if the case was simply that the players have lost the drive for rounds 20 - 22 and strictly focused on finals, then a good bake is in order. But, whether it's just the players mental preparation, doubt after one loss, aftermath of resting players or heavy training loads, we wont know till end of september.

In terms of him being arrogant in the presser, I can see why you would get that impression, though it's not as if our past coaches were any different!

Engineering a loss, not the term I would use, maybe tweaking with our once winning structure to expose our hidden strengths and weaknesses. If he does it and we result in a loss, we're damned. But we if stick strictly to as we are when we are cemented in top spot and we bow out in finals because we become a tad predictable, we're damned as well.

So many questions, so little time for answers.

[Thinline]

Boring pessimism combined with age-old theme dig-uppery, Roger.

[asiu]

saints in both states

lock it in eddie


no wucking furries

[matrix]

he was not arrogant in the press interview imo
sat there answering questions while drinking a glass of water

seemed no different than every other time ive seen him do press interviews...
cool as

[aussiejones]

Shouldnt we just back off a little in crtiticism of Ross?

Surely it would be nice to go into the finals with the momentum of winning.
But is that the ideal ?

Then again our coaches know what they are doing re finals.
We should have a bit of faith that they will have the boys up and going come September.

Losses are disapointing , but they havnt been bad losses.
Hopefully they represent just a lack of intensity that is temporary .
Or is this just wishful thinking ?????

[Moods]

[quote="rodgerfoxThe results are irrelevant. The performance certainly isn't.

What these two performances have highlighted, is that our game plan isn't 'genius'.

We rely on our good players to be 100% switched on. When they're not, Lyon isn't the oracle some would have you believe.

.

I've read that this list coaches itself. Thanks to Blight-lotto (I think I've heard it referred to) B4Eva's grandmother wcould coach these guys to a Prelim.


Being 19-0 with a fully fit list of very, very good footballers, and having beaten every team in the comp - including one of the 'contenders' twice, means that we are biggest certainty in modern history.........


......or are we.[/quote]

Geez, some of these statements from you Rodger are breathtakingly ignorant.

THe performance is NEVER irrelevent. Who cares about the spin coming rom the club all year. Performance = result. Especially if we play teams in the bottom half of the ladder. I fail to see how we could possibly of played well against North and LOST So yeah, we played bad on the weekend.

AS far as linking these recent performances with our game plan and then loosely tying it in with your tired old opinion that it proves that the game plan is flawed.... I'll say it again, what game plan isn't based around your best players playing well? Surely that's the point isn't it? If anything the game against the hawks proved that the game plan doesn't require our best players on the park to be successful. What the game plan requires is 100% effort by ALL players to be successful. That's something we haven't be getting. I think Geelongs' game plan is based more on the need for the best players to be out on the park - not ours.

Your final statement reads like you are almost willing the team to fail so you can be first to say, 'I told you so.'

My opinion - even if the absolute wrost happens to us - and we lost Roo for the rest of the year. I'm still confident that we will win the flag. as long as the boys bring the intensity they have shown this year.

[saint66au]

Rodg..until you spend a bit more time on here during the good times, in my eyes you are only 1/2 step above the "Why is Raph playing instead of Goose" kids on Facebook.

You grizzled all through pre-season, told us you were over footy..then told us all not to get sucked in by a couple of early wins..then went missing for 3 months.

Now?? something else to grizzle about (albeit it grammatically nice grizzling) and back you come.

Spend more time posting on Facebook. Your spelling will be better but your "I can find a negative in anything" persona will fit in very nicely

Cred factor < 0

[Devilhead]

LOL ... DodgyBox at his classic best .... asking the hard questions that need to be answered by other people because he cannot do so himself

Yet the stupid damning thing is that DodgyBox wants answers to questions that are based around Lyon .. "apparently" .. berating the players

He actually wants answer to questions that might have no factual basis and are built around hearsay

Seriously what a jucking foke and complete waste of space