Resting/freshening up for finals.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

I wasn't one who was backing the suggestions of "resting" guys in the lead-up to the finals, but to all those who mocked and ridiculed the idea like it was crazy-talk, Leigh Matthews has also apparently backed the idea.

One of the guys On The Couch said tonight that Leigh said yesterday that if he were coaching Geelong, he'd "rest" the other half of their team this week. That's Leigh Matthews. 4 time premiership coach, who earlier this decade led Brisbane to 4 grand finals in a row (winning 3 of them). So he believes in it, as it seems does Bomber Thompson, who's led Geelong to the past two Grand Finals (winning one by a record 117 points). A bloke called James Hird also said On the Couch that he agrees with the idea as well. So all those who ridiculed the idea and those who suggested it are effectively ridiculing those blokes as well. Are you all really that good/smart/wise?

In hindsight, it looks like at least a couple of our guys could have definitely done with a rest on the weekend. Instead, they spent hours on planes, and played a game in relatively hot conditions, on a very big ground. The side was as flat as a pancake for the first 3 quarters and if they play that way in the next 2 weeks we'll probably get our asses kicked.

Our guys looked knackered at the end of the game and Riewoldt apparently told Gerard Healy on the plane ride back that he "couldn't believe how flat he was during the game", as a result of the week before against Geelong. Now we have two of the toughest games of the year in the next 14 days. Not ideal.

As I said, I wasn't really for the idea of resting guys last week, but if they're that tired, playing can do more harm than good. To the teams performance (eg yesterday, which included 3 quarters of relative rubbish) and to them. I'd much rather one or two miss here and there and we play better (having a fresher team) than having these 25 or so guys having to carry the load for the whole year and try to do it all themselves.

Brad Haddin and Marcus North seemingly tried to do a similar thing in the first Ashes Test and it cost us a golden opportunity to win a game. For long periods they batted like they had to get all our remaining runs for the match on their own, when we would surely have been better them putting the foot down much earlier/harder, to score much more quickly and give us time to bowl England out. Even if we'd had to bat again, we'd have had 11 guys to make the required runs. Instead, we ended up with no "points" to show for dominating most of the game and finished up with 14 wickets up our sleeve/unused. Not smart. I hope we don't follow them down the same path. We have a whole list to choose from.

It's much better to miss a game when you genuinely would benefit from a break, than keep ploughing on till you tear a hamstring, or you're too tired to perform at your best. It's unnecessary. There are 4 genuine challengers now and Geelong may bounce back to much better than they were against us. We need to be cherry ripe and at our peak. If we are, we can win all our remaining games.

As yesterday showed, we haven't quite found the right balance yet. If they persist with essentially playing the same guys every week, they'll need to find some seriously good/effective/better ways of freshening them up between games. If we get it right, we'll come up with something pretty incredible.

[bigcarl]

for a start there is no proof that geelong has done anything differently than what we would do in the same circumstances. ie, rest up anyone with a genuine niggle.

if they are resting important players who are fully fit, you can make a good argument either way.

on the one hand it refreshes players for the big matches to come ... the business end and the results that really count.

on the other, can you turn winning and losing on and off like a tap?

and would the cats now want to come up against brisbane in a final after having been spanked by them on the weekend? after all, the lions now know they can beat geelong.

i think the most sensible course of action is to rest anyone who is not 100 per cent. but, as i cannot tell the future, i really do not know the answer.

[AnythingsPossibleSaints]

You know deep down in your guts. It's called intuition/gut-instinct. It's there to guide.
And I'm not suggesting that we'd do anything like "rest" 7 blokes at one time. More like, as I said, one or two, every now and then. That way it won't disrupt the side to the extent that we'd be likely to lose. For instance, with Ball only having 9 possies and Bakes 6 on Sunday, you'd hope we'd have had two other blokes on the list that could have given a similar output, plus an injection of energy/enthusiasm, which can be infectious. Then they'd be much fresher for the two big games ahead, if brought back in.
It's a fine line. Don't give guys who need it a break and we're flat, like Sunday, give too many guys a break (as it seems Geelong may have done) and you get the sort of result they got against Brisbane. It's all about finding the balance.

[Moods]

Who says Geelong are resting players? Who says the blokes out all weren't genuinely injured? I think everyone is just making assumptions about the cats. Sounds like Bomber thompson wasn't overly impressed about the team that was made available to him on the weekend. If he was happy he wouldn't have been taking veiled swipes at his medical/fitness people.

We still have seven days to rest up for this weeks game. I see the pies in 2007 managed to fly back from Perth after a tough final and play okay the following week.

Heaven help us if we have to play a tough final this year. I don't recall any other premiership teams in the past resting players. We were always going to be flat last week, and we still got through it.

[asiu]

common sense is not very common it would seem

[plugger66]

You know deep down in your guts. It's called intuition/gut-instinct. It's there to guide.
And I'm not suggesting that we'd do anything like "rest" 7 blokes at one time. More like, as I said, one or two, every now and then. That way it won't disrupt the side to the extent that we'd be likely to lose. For instance, with Ball only having 9 possies and Bakes 6 on Sunday, you'd hope we'd have had two other blokes on the list that could have given a similar output, plus an injection of energy/enthusiasm, which can be infectious. Then they'd be much fresher for the two big games ahead, if brought back in.
It's a fine line. Don't give guys who need it a break and we're flat, like Sunday, give too many guys a break (as it seems Geelong may have done) and you get the sort of result they got against Brisbane. It's all about finding the balance.

Arent you the person who wanted a player dropped even if they had only one bad game so that players would play better knowing that they may be dropped. Under your criteria we would be dropping plenty this week. Lenny, Kosi, Bally, Bakes, Ban and Zac so maybe we could use your criteria to rest players. It may be an issue if we get to the prelim and win but these players have a poor game. We might have an ordinary GF side.

[saint66au]

Who says Geelong are resting players? Who says the blokes out all weren't genuinely injured? I think everyone is just making assumptions about the cats. Sounds like Bomber thompson wasn't overly impressed about the team that was made available to him on the weekend. If he was happy he wouldn't have been taking veiled swipes at his medical/fitness people.

We still have seven days to rest up for this weeks game. I see the pies in 2007 managed to fly back from Perth after a tough final and play okay the following week.

Heaven help us if we have to play a tough final this year. I don't recall any other premiership teams in the past resting players. We were always going to be flat last week, and we still got through it.

Agree totally

If geelong were resting players, why wasnt the first person rested the bloke who was knocked completely unconscious last week?

[Cairnsman]

Who sais Lyon won't start resting players now that we have almost certainly locked up a top two spot.

It's possible that the coaches discussed resting players this week but opted to play the whole team because they wanted to send the message that the teams fitness, endurance and mental strength was superior than Geelong’s. They did that.

The other thing to remember about why the Cats players might be a little bit more worn out than the Saints is because they have been the benchmark team since early 2007 and each week their opposition wants to test themselves against the benchmark hence they have had almost three seasons of hard physical matches, even against the lesser teams. I reckon from a phsycological perspective resting the players after our match could backfire for Geelong come September.

There are seven weeks to go in the H&A season, plenty of time to rest players, tinker and prepare for September.

Relax and stop looking for the negatives.

[Cairnsman]

Oh and there is another thing about resting players that sends the wrong message.

It telegraphs to the competion which players are deemed critical to the clubs game plan and chances.

[saintly]

for a start there is no proof that geelong has done anything differently than what we would do in the same circumstances. ie, rest up anyone with a genuine niggle.

if they are resting important players who are fully fit, you can make a good argument either way.

on the one hand it refreshes players for the big matches to come ... the business end and the results that really count.

on the other, can you turn winning and losing on and off like a tap?

and would the cats now want to come up against brisbane in a final after having been spanked by them on the weekend? after all, the lions now know they can beat geelong.

i think the most sensible course of action is to rest anyone who is not 100 per cent. but, as i cannot tell the future, i really do not know the answer.

If luke ball is playing injured, he does not have much game time lately, why would the saints not give him a rest?

[StSteven]

We hold back players in the Nab Cup so they are cherry ripe for the important part of the season. Seems finals are even more important.
We will know which is better in 11 weeks.
I nervously wait.

[Moccha]

Assumptions assumptions!

What is relatively hot?

Is 15 degrees relatively hotter than 10 degrees or relatively cooler than 20 degrees?

Make of it what you will. What's the point of your argument when it's taken in context with the win?

[SainterK]

I think Geelong were caught a little by surprise, they had to play a hard game against us. They are used to breezing through, and have not played a physical game like that in a long time.

I have no doubt that Geelong were contending with injuries on the weekend, not resting players. I agree that Taylor and Harley probably wouldn't have played if it was simply for a rest....

[matrix]

i cant read that
big block of white letters

[bigcarl]

If luke ball is playing injured, he does not have much game time lately, why would the saints not give him a rest?

if he's injured he should be rested.

[SainterK]

If luke ball is playing injured, he does not have much game time lately, why would the saints not give him a rest?

if he's injured he should be rested.

I'm confused....is he injured, or is he recovering from OP and being properly managed?

[bigcarl]

If luke ball is playing injured, he does not have much game time lately, why would the saints not give him a rest?

if he's injured he should be rested.

I'm confused....is he injured, or is he recovering from OP and being properly managed?

he plays every week, so i assume he is fully fit

[nathan000]

I think it's a good idea to rest a player or two if your in Geelong or St Kilda's situation. Yet only if they are showing signs of tiredness or a mild injury. I wouldn't do what Geelong did against Brisbane, unless they were actual injuries, yet i would allow for two or three players a week to be rested. This week i would think about giving Kosi a week off, put Lynch in and let him work around Roo. Maybe give one of the midfielders a week off too, Lenny seemed very tired on the weekend, and also a backman like Goddard or Fish. You just have to make sure your not going overboard and you still have good enough players in your team to get you over the line each week.

[bergholt]

I'm confused....is he injured, or is he recovering from OP and being properly managed?

i don't think any of us know.

my contention is simply that he's (last two games especially) a shadow of his best so he must be injured. but no-one from the club has commented on him as far as i know.

[plugger66]

I'm confused....is he injured, or is he recovering from OP and being properly managed?

i don't think any of us know.

my contention is simply that he's (last two games especially) a shadow of his best so he must be injured. but no-one from the club has commented on him as far as i know.

Why would he play against a bottom side on the other side of the earth if he is injured?

[vacuous space]

Why would [Ball] play against a bottom side on the other side of the earth if he is injured?

I don't think he's injured, but they're definitely managing him. He had 10 contested possessions five weeks in a row prior to Geelong. Since then he's hardly been seen in the centre and has played ~50% game time. My guess would be they're trying to limit the amount of stress on his groin - at least for now - and maybe trying out some different on ball setups.

[bigcarl]

My guess would be they're trying to limit the amount of stress on his groin

in which case he is carrying an injury, albeit a chronic one.

[bob__71]

Maybe they are resting ball?

[evertonfc]

I hate that the Geelong players have a rest up their sleeve. Annoying.

[plugger66]

I hate that the Geelong players have a rest up their sleeve. Annoying.

They were injured.