Why are certain players bagged?

[To the top]

OK, I am the same as the rest and I pass comment that Rix has "hard" hands so is an unreliable handler of the ball, causing fumbles and dropped marks to the detriment of the flow of the game - plus his kicking and hand balling is uncertain again impeding the hand off to the detriment of the game.

Baker I think is past it because his only remaining position is as a "run with" on-baller - and he will be isolated in defence where he does not have the height and ball skills to defend and counter attack. So I think his time has come.

But in regards X. Clarke, allowing for the time out and the stage, I thought he threw himself at the contests, did the hard chasing, landed the tackles and went again. The ball did not fall to him but it was not for the lack of effort - and he could have snagged a couple of holding the balls for shots on goal if he had been wearing the other teams colours (because they are allowed to wrap the tackler up and just hold the ball if a release player is not there - they make no intent just trying to bull doze through claiming the ball is held in when there is no intention to attempt to release - compare to Lenny getting pinged for incorrect disposal costing a goal - at least he tried to get his arms out and dispose. Geelong do not take those "risks" holding the tacklers arms around them to claim the ball held in).

Kosi had 15 possesions, took 7 marks and, yes, made a few disposal errors but he was attempting to set up the run we needed by dishing off. Because of rucking duties he spends time "on the pine", which is not optimum for him or for the team - we need him drifting higher up the ground as a target and King needs the support of a ruckman, which Kosi does not have the mass body for given what ruckwork has become - so hopefully M. Gardiner is fit and available.

We do need a better ariel presence forward. I am not sure about C. Gardiner despite one mark of the type required. Similarly R. Clarke took a strong pack mark (and missed!) and he moving around the forward line adds - although I thought he looked for X a couple of times which were not on - but equally the options were scarce.

Gwilt is the other option, but Jimmy was not well served when he was forward - in fact no one was!

Milne tried, Schnieder got it a bit but the bigger bodies told against them including because we did not have numbers driving in, getting and releasing.

And when we did have the numbers driving in, at 2nd or 3rd ball ups, we left players out and even our hard work finished in opposition hands.

The ball must go our way from every contest, which is why we need a ruck presence at every contest, capable of holding ground, responding to the grappling and holding which appears legal now and staying under the ball, not being pushed off it by mutiple bodies.

You would expect X to step up with a game under his belt, the likes of Jones and Gilbert and Eddy with their first finals out of the way to know more about it.

And if they want to target Harvey, Rooke with knee in looking to deliberately cork and being partially successful (another Geelong "tactic"), well, we know what is coming and we respond in kind.

We have to target players as Geelong do, and inflict injury whenever the opportunity presents.

They break, as we saw when one of them was carted off.

And we have to break them before they break us - because breaking us is their intent whether it be knees into the contest or throwing tackles we have to accomodate them and give it back - and that will, at least, distract them, at a break slow them and at best see more carted off.

Football against the Westpac ferals (Westpac wrote off $3 Million in debt - when Geelong went to Bendigo Bank - which is the only reason Geelong FC is still around today) is a war of attrition - and that is how it must be fought.

Ask for no quarter (except even treatment from the umpiring fraternity who obvoiusly believe the publicity about Geelong and are intimidated by them) and give no quarter.

And guys and gals, look a little closer at what X and Kosi attempted to do - because it will come off with better support accross the park.

[derby Street]

Can't argue with too much in this TTT in regard to the Saint player comments - in fact pretty measured & well articulated.
However don't get too excited someone will come in with a major rant and try and shoot everything you have stated into flames.

[Bernard Shakey]

X is a player, and will play many great games for St Kilda.

Kosi was a player with great potential that has passed him by. Time to move on.

[Sobraz]

Great post TTT and couldnt agree more on all your points...

It is odd how certain players are bagged, with others being let off the hook... It has come to light recently that the Kosi bagging is primarily based on his output v's payment....

We all know he is in the higher level of payment, but for mine, seeing as there are no salary cap issues and the lack of quality 6'6" players in the comp, that is irrelevant..

I'm hoping X will be better for the run this week, and also looking forward to seeing M. Gards have an influence..

Not sold on Charlie either, and would prefer to see Allen in the side...

[Solar]

class post as usual TTT

the loss of dempster shook up the match ups as you predicted.

xavier will be better for the run

can't say anymore except maybe the time of micheal gardiner has come

[To the top]

Don't worry Derby Street.

A few weeks back I highlighted the draw the AFL had set for St Kilda and the impact of shorter recovery weeks in prospect throughout the first weeks of the finals, and was bagged by many who said it was of no consequence and a "lame excuse" etc. etc. etc.

Guess what?

The sides that played on the final Sunday of the Minor Round were Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and St Kilda, with Essendon and St Kilda having a "twilight" game.

In 2007 St Kilda finished the season off with 7 wins from 11 games so it was a reasonable assumption that they would be in the mix in 2008.

Essendon, Melbourne and Richmond were further down the list and you could have got good to very good odds that they would contest finals in 2008.

On a seeding basis, you would suggest those playing on the last Sunday of the Minor Round should be those seeded not to make the finals in 2008 - based on 2007 performances.

Seedings can be overturned by performance and the un-seeded may get through, but they should be considered.

St Kilda are at a significant dis-advantage with first Geelong and now Collingwood having the extra recovery day or more - and they are most, most important come finals time.

Another lack of process by Mr "19,000 at a Final" and his AFL.

[plugger66]

Don't worry Derby Street.

A few weeks back I highlighted the draw the AFL had set for St Kilda and the impact of shorter recovery weeks in prospect throughout the first weeks of the finals, and was bagged by many who said it was of no consequence and a "lame excuse" etc. etc. etc.

Guess what?

The sides that played on the final Sunday of the Minor Round were Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond and St Kilda, with Essendon and St Kilda having a "twilight" game.

In 2007 St Kilda finished the season off with 7 wins from 11 games so it was a reasonable assumption that they would be in the mix in 2008.

Essendon, Melbourne and Richmond were further down the list and you could have got good to very good odds that they would contest finals in 2008.

On a seeding basis, you would suggest those playing on the last Sunday of the Minor Round should be those seeded not to make the finals in 2008 - based on 2007 performances.

Seedings can be overturned by performance and the un-seeded may get through, but they should be considered.

St Kilda are at a significant dis-advantage with first Geelong and now Collingwood having the extra recovery day or more - and they are most, most important come finals time.

Another lack of process by Mr "19,000 at a Final" and his AFL.

I remember that. That was the one you were complaining about our breaks for the last 4 games. Funny how we played our best footy in the last 3 weeks. Also funny when you didnt comment after I worked out that we had longer breaks than the side we played 5 times during the season. Yes I remember well.

[spert]

Doesn't matter a thing unless every player busts their guts in a final -too many passengers last week.

[saintsRrising]

Don't worry Derby Street.

A few weeks back I highlighted the draw the AFL had set for St Kilda and the impact of shorter recovery weeks in prospect throughout the first weeks of the finals, and was bagged by many who said it was of no consequence and a "lame excuse" etc. etc. etc.

Guess what?


.

It is stilll a lame excuse...we had a 7 day break against the Cat's and came out and playeda below par game (even allowing for how good the Cats were).

[To the top]

A total lack of knowledge of the intensity of preparation for finals football.

We are not playing Minor Round games now, we are playing finals and EVERY little advantage is absolutely vital - particularly an extra recovery and preparation day over your opposition.

You guys obviously have not been there and done that.

Perhaps you guys may like the Preliminary finals scheduled for a Friday night and the following Sunday night - with the Grand Final the following Saturday?

I maintain that St Kilda finished above Collingwood and by virtue of that fact St Kilda should at least have equal if not more recovery and preparation time - not less.

A day can be the difference between a player playing or not.

That is how finite recovery and preparation is, particularly at this time of the year when most players are showing signs of distress in one way or another.

[Eastern]

WHY ARE CERTIAN PLAYERS BAGGED ON THIS FORUM?

That's easy to answer.

Because some posters on this forum have very bad belly aches and are too scared to fart for fear they might chyt themselves !!

[plugger66]

A total lack of knowledge of the intensity of preparation for finals football.

We are not playing Minor Round games now, we are playing finals and EVERY little advantage is absolutely vital - particularly an extra recovery and preparation day over your opposition.

You guys obviously have not been there and done that.

Perhaps you guys may like the Preliminary finals scheduled for a Friday night and the following Sunday night - with the Grand Final the following Saturday?

I maintain that St Kilda finished above Collingwood and by virtue of that fact St Kilda should at least have equal if not more recovery and preparation time - not less.

A day can be the difference between a player playing or not.

That is how finite recovery and preparation is, particularly at this time of the year when most players are showing signs of distress in one way or another.

Then why bring it up in the previous post when that was about home and away games. Because you wanted to bag the AFL and was looking for excuses before the game was played. And how many games have you played in the AFL as you have obviously been there and done that.

[Solar]

A total lack of knowledge of the intensity of preparation for finals football.

We are not playing Minor Round games now, we are playing finals and EVERY little advantage is absolutely vital - particularly an extra recovery and preparation day over your opposition.

You guys obviously have not been there and done that.

Perhaps you guys may like the Preliminary finals scheduled for a Friday night and the following Sunday night - with the Grand Final the following Saturday?

I maintain that St Kilda finished above Collingwood and by virtue of that fact St Kilda should at least have equal if not more recovery and preparation time - not less.

A day can be the difference between a player playing or not.

That is how finite recovery and preparation is, particularly at this time of the year when most players are showing signs of distress in one way or another.

Then why bring it up in the previous post when that was about home and away games. Because you wanted to bag the AFL and was looking for excuses before the game was played. And how many games have you played in the AFL as you have obviously been there and done that.

The point is that because they placed us on a sunday game we are always going to suffer the worse breaks. especially since we have now been grouped with collingwood who had the friday game.

No reason why every game can't be over by the saturday night. This means that at worse the a team who played saturday night might have to play the following friday night. Otherwise it would be easier to seed the games to stop certain teams copping 6 day breaks 2 finals in a row.

[saintsRrising]

You guys obviously have not been there and done that.

.

Maybe you should havea chat to our Conditioning Manager who has said that there is no real advantage when comparing 8 days to 7....

So against the Cats it was not a significant factor.


But yes there is in comparing 7 to 6.......and in particular if on the 6 you are coming off an interstate trip as well...particularly a WA one.

So againts the Pies it will bea factor...but as we were in same state game it will not be as critical as 6 days break witha long trip involved.

[To the top]

"a chance to bag the AFL".

One thing I do note is that in every post by you, Plugger, you defend the AFL - to the hilt.

Simply Plugger, the scheduling of the final few games of the Minor Round season compromised St Kilda into a Sunday game in the final Minor Round match (and twilight to boot), and that was always going to be a marked disadvantage as it is now turning out.

The facts are in the draw - BOTH sides we have played to date in the FINALS have had an extra recovery/preparation day compared to St Kilda.

This scenario was sticking out like dogs balls weeks before the end of the Minor Round, when I raised what the scenario would be - and as it has turned out to be.

Fact. End of story.

And if you think an extra day of recovery/preparation counts for nothing, particularly at this time of the season, then you probably think Demitriou is Marilyn Monroe and that he/she visits you every night!

[Bernard Shakey]

Obviously cost us the game on Sunday.

AFL conspiracy.

We may as well pack up now and move to Tassie.

[st.byron]

OK, I am the same as the rest and I pass comment that Rix has "hard" hands so is an unreliable handler of the ball, causing fumbles and dropped marks to the detriment of the flow of the game - plus his kicking and hand balling is uncertain again impeding the hand off to the detriment of the game.

.........................................
And guys and gals, look a little closer at what X and Kosi attempted to do - because it will come off with better support accross the park.

TTT agree with a lot of your post, esp regarding X. It's a huge ask to come back to the seniors in a final after 16 weeks out.
But I'm mystified as to why people are so keen to keep on making excuses for Koschitzke. The list's as long as his arm, which is pretty long.
And you just added another one. This time it's a variation on "getting the structure right". You reckon that, "with better support across the park", Koschitzke's suddenly going to be a better player. Why is it that people are so keen to lay the blame for his continued failure to deliver anywhere but at his feet?
He was good against Essendon. Not great, but serviceable. But when we really need him in a high pressure contest, he doesn't deliver. But it's not his fault, it's the rest of the team for not providing better support.
Beats me why he's got such a lot of supporters clinging on to what he could be instead of what he actually is.

( Have to add the rider that I haven't seen Sunday's game and am basing my assessment of Kosi on other poster's reports. But I am basing my assessment of the ëxcuse culture around Kosi on my own experience and not other people's)

[matrix]

did someone say conspiracy

what?
who ?
when ?
how?
tell me
telllll me now god damit!

[plugger66]

"a chance to bag the AFL".

One thing I do note is that in every post by you, Plugger, you defend the AFL - to the hilt.

Simply Plugger, the scheduling of the final few games of the Minor Round season compromised St Kilda into a Sunday game in the final Minor Round match (and twilight to boot), and that was always going to be a marked disadvantage as it is now turning out.

The facts are in the draw - BOTH sides we have played to date in the FINALS have had an extra recovery/preparation day compared to St Kilda.

This scenario was sticking out like dogs balls weeks before the end of the Minor Round, when I raised what the scenario would be - and as it has turned out to be.

Fact. End of story.

And if you think an extra day of recovery/preparation counts for nothing, particularly at this time of the season, then you probably think Demitriou is Marilyn Monroe and that he/she visits you every night!

At no stage in that post you made did you mention the Sunday arvo factor effecting our finals run. It was a whinge about the breaks for the last 4 games and how teams we played had the longer or same breaks and I pointed out we were 5 games up for the year where we had a longer break than the opposition. Funny that you have never commented on that. We will beat Collingwood if we are good enough. The break will have no bearing unless of course you think our fitness people are no good.

[Saints94]

Kozi is really pissing me of with lazy performances just like getting 10 touches and taking 2 or 3 marks we need to trade him for Kerr before his worth gets even lower.

[To the top]

Plugger, I think you need to go to a reading comprehension class - of course you will need to wear your short pants and take your play lunch with your "hundreds and thousands" on top.

The FACTS are that both Geelong and now Collingwood have had an extra recovery/preparation day than has St Kilda - and given the way the draw panned out thru the final few rounds of the Minor Round that was always going to be the case if St Kilda made the finals.

And it is.

In regards Koschitzke, someone comments that they did not see the game but judge his performance on what is written on these sites - by who exactly?

But that is the self-serving function of these sites, where unfortunately only some engage in meaningful debate and some just like to see their "names" in print.

Koschitzke had 15 possesions last Sunday and took 7 marks, several stretch marks overhead.

When rucking he put in second efforts at ground level - and he chased including chasing a free running smaller player down the wing.

Whose opponent was it?

He was far, far from our worst on the day.

And St Kilda was badly beaten meaning we did not control the contested ball and were always confronting a defending player when attempting to set up some run (if we did win it) - so delivery was always under pressure including by being forced sideways giving Geelong the opportunity to get numbers back - which they did.

That is what we confronted, and it was not Koschitzke's fault as most on here would seem to have it.

What was Riewoldt's impact on the game?

We look for ALL players chosen for this Saturday to lift their performance starting with our mid-field so we actually get some quality ball into the forward line and take some pressure off our defence.

When you win quality mid field ball, everyone looks better, including Koschitzke.

This is a TEAM sport.

[stinger]

WHY ARE CERTIAN PLAYERS BAGGED ON THIS FORUM?

That's easy to answer.

Because some posters on this forum have very bad belly aches and are too scared to fart for fear they might chyt themselves !!

can i quote you on that....lol......no lmfao.....

[stinger]

Plugger, I think you need to go to a reading comprehension class - of course you will need to wear your short pants and take your play lunch with your "hundreds and thousands" on top.

The FACTS are that both Geelong and now Collingwood have had an extra recovery/preparation day than has St Kilda - and given the way the draw panned out thru the final few rounds of the Minor Round that was always going to be the case if St Kilda made the finals.

And it is.

In regards Koschitzke, someone comments that they did not see the game but judge his performance on what is written on these sites - by who exactly?

But that is the self-serving function of these sites, where unfortunately only some engage in meaningful debate and some just like to see their "names" in print.

Koschitzke had 15 possesions last Sunday and took 7 marks, several stretch marks overhead.

When rucking he put in second efforts at ground level - and he chased including chasing a free running smaller player down the wing.

Whose opponent was it?

He was far, far from our worst on the day.

And St Kilda was badly beaten meaning we did not control the contested ball and were always confronting a defending player when attempting to set up some run (if we did win it) - so delivery was always under pressure including by being forced sideways giving Geelong the opportunity to get numbers back - which they did.

That is what we confronted, and it was not Koschitzke's fault as most on here would seem to have it.

What was Riewoldt's impact on the game?

We look for ALL players chosen for this Saturday to lift their performance starting with our mid-field so we actually get some quality ball into the forward line and take some pressure off our defence.

When you win quality mid field ball, everyone looks better, including Koschitzke.

This is a TEAM sport.

gotta love ttt.......gold...summed that plugga up......

[plugger66]

Plugger, I think you need to go to a reading comprehension class - of course you will need to wear your short pants and take your play lunch with your "hundreds and thousands" on top.

The FACTS are that both Geelong and now Collingwood have had an extra recovery/preparation day than has St Kilda - and given the way the draw panned out thru the final few rounds of the Minor Round that was always going to be the case if St Kilda made the finals.

And it is.

In regards Koschitzke, someone comments that they did not see the game but judge his performance on what is written on these sites - by who exactly?

But that is the self-serving function of these sites, where unfortunately only some engage in meaningful debate and some just like to see their "names" in print.

Koschitzke had 15 possesions last Sunday and took 7 marks, several stretch marks overhead.

When rucking he put in second efforts at ground level - and he chased including chasing a free running smaller player down the wing.

Whose opponent was it?

He was far, far from our worst on the day.

And St Kilda was badly beaten meaning we did not control the contested ball and were always confronting a defending player when attempting to set up some run (if we did win it) - so delivery was always under pressure including by being forced sideways giving Geelong the opportunity to get numbers back - which they did.

That is what we confronted, and it was not Koschitzke's fault as most on here would seem to have it.

What was Riewoldt's impact on the game?

We look for ALL players chosen for this Saturday to lift their performance starting with our mid-field so we actually get some quality ball into the forward line and take some pressure off our defence.

When you win quality mid field ball, everyone looks better, including Koschitzke.

This is a TEAM sport.

gotta love ttt.......gold...summed that plugga up......

What time do you want to catch up on Saturday. I will buy the first and you can tell me about when you have meet the Saints players. Did you bring emoticans with you and say FFS and FW alot. Im sure they loved meeting you just like I will Saturday. Remember my shout.

[stinger]

Plugger, I think you need to go to a reading comprehension class - of course you will need to wear your short pants and take your play lunch with your "hundreds and thousands" on top.

The FACTS are that both Geelong and now Collingwood have had an extra recovery/preparation day than has St Kilda - and given the way the draw panned out thru the final few rounds of the Minor Round that was always going to be the case if St Kilda made the finals.

And it is.

In regards Koschitzke, someone comments that they did not see the game but judge his performance on what is written on these sites - by who exactly?

But that is the self-serving function of these sites, where unfortunately only some engage in meaningful debate and some just like to see their "names" in print.

Koschitzke had 15 possesions last Sunday and took 7 marks, several stretch marks overhead.

When rucking he put in second efforts at ground level - and he chased including chasing a free running smaller player down the wing.

Whose opponent was it?

He was far, far from our worst on the day.

And St Kilda was badly beaten meaning we did not control the contested ball and were always confronting a defending player when attempting to set up some run (if we did win it) - so delivery was always under pressure including by being forced sideways giving Geelong the opportunity to get numbers back - which they did.

That is what we confronted, and it was not Koschitzke's fault as most on here would seem to have it.

What was Riewoldt's impact on the game?

We look for ALL players chosen for this Saturday to lift their performance starting with our mid-field so we actually get some quality ball into the forward line and take some pressure off our defence.

When you win quality mid field ball, everyone looks better, including Koschitzke.

This is a TEAM sport.

gotta love ttt.......gold...summed that plugga up......

What time do you want to catch up on Saturday. I will buy the first and you can tell me about when you have meet the Saints players. Did you bring emoticans with you and say FFS and FW alot. Im sure they loved meeting you just like I will Saturday. Remember my shout.

i don't drink .......