Make up your minds!

[peter lockwood]

I seem to remember that during the trade week when we got both Schneids @ Dempster for pick 26,people here were saying we bent Sydney over and later in the week with King and Gardiner for pick 90+ some were doing cartwheels.Year before MG and Birss for the 1 pick woopee!!Im happy enough with our picks to a certain extent.
I think we need some people with some real grit.Think back to the Waugh boys in cricket.Mark had all the skill but would more often or not have a brain fade, where as Steve had mental toughness and some mongrel in him and he would often save the team.
St kilda on paper looks great but continually is found wanting.
I think there are a few boys out there need a big reality check and some supporters as well.
Im not a footballers shoelace but if i was and given a chance to play for this club i would like many of you go out there week on week and give 110%.Unfortunately we bleed for this club and many of our boys dont!

[SENsei]

I disagree to an extent. I believe that there is no player who doesn't give their 110% when they pull on the guernsey. Not one.

But it is the level of their 110% against the opposition's level that is the issue.

Is their individual 110% enough? Or are they simply not good enough?

[peter lockwood]

So skill levels put aside do you think that Dal puts in the same amount as Harves .

[GrumpyOne]

So skill levels put aside do you think that Dal puts in the same amount as Harves .

Good question but bad example.

No-one in the history of football has put in as much effort as Harves.

[Dan Warna]

one or two of these deals are ok but every year we pick of 3 or 4 leftovers from other clubs.

St Kilda may once again become of the retirement home for finished players

[tweedaletomanning]

one or two of these deals are ok but every year we pick of 3 or 4 leftovers from other clubs.

St Kilda may once again become of the retirement home for finished players

...and if they start coming from carlton again, thats the end for me..

[SENsei]

So skill levels put aside do you think that Dal puts in the same amount as Harves .

Agree bad example. But I do think every player puts in 110% of their own ability and skill set. Dal is a loper whereas Harves is a hard runner and has been doing it for 20 years.

You can compare Hayes to Harves in terms of effort put in.

[Saint Bev]

I seem to remember that during the trade week when we got both Schneids @ Dempster for pick 26,people here were saying we bent Sydney over and later in the week with King and Gardiner for pick 90+ some were doing cartwheels.Year before MG and Birss for the 1 pick woopee!!Im happy enough with our picks to a certain extent.
I think we need some people with some real grit.Think back to the Waugh boys in cricket.Mark had all the skill but would more often or not have a brain fade, where as Steve had mental toughness and some mongrel in him and he would often save the team.
St kilda on paper looks great but continually is found wanting.
I think there are a few boys out there need a big reality check and some supporters as well.
Im not a footballers shoelace but if i was and given a chance to play for this club i would like many of you go out there week on week and give 110%.Unfortunately we bleed for this club and many of our boys dont!

I agree 100%. Dal and Koz really need to lift their game. Don't get me wrong, I love these guys and no I don't want to get rid of them. But they need to start playing to their ability.

[saintsRrising]

I seem to remember that during the trade week when we got both Schneids @ Dempster for pick 26,people here were saying we bent Sydney over and later in the week with King and Gardiner for pick 90+ some were doing cartwheels.Year before MG and Birss for the 1 pick woopee!!Im happy enough with our picks to a certain extent.
:

I was happy then...and am still happy now.

The real trade was Schneider for 26. Now Schneider has been out of sorts the last 2 games post injury. But I would be confident he will find form again.

When he was taken I think the consensus was that he was no star...but wasa player type that we were short of and so should bea good aquistion and well worth pick 26.

King for 90...was a freebie...and I was very pleased to get him then and now.


With Dempster and Charlie...I am pretty sure the consensus back them was a bit of uncertainty...but hopefully they might be good depth players....but that if they never playeda game it did not matter as they were basically freebies.

So far they have been depth players....so that to me actually puts us in front.



Birrs and Gardi

Well they only cost pick 43.

I think the consensus with Birrs was probably a lot of sceptism as he was largely unknown and seemed to have been in and out with the Dogsa lot with injury and variable frm

With Gardi it was mixed...that if even if he was not as good as he used to be that it would stil bea step up in the ruck for us as long as he actuallu got to play!!!!!

In 2007 however it was looking like pick 43 wasa waste for the two of them.
In 2008 it is mnow looking to bea real baragain. Gardi has shown that he can still play very well, but yes still has some injury problems. However he looks o the verge of some very good form. With Birrs things have looked up too. He is no star by any means...but as shown himself to bea useful player and asa run with tagger neagtes while winning equal ball to his opponent. Importnatly ina team that lacks mids that can kick goals Birrs has proven to bea reliable shot on goal.




So all in all I think pick 26 and 43 have proven to have een good value...even if Dempse and Charlie never play any more games (but I think they will).

[rodgerfox]

Birrs and Gardi

Well they only cost pick 43.

Only pick 43 and two spots on the list?

I agree with what your saying, but in the context of alot of the criticisms and concerns - pick 43 and two spots on our list is actually a pretty hefty price.

[saintsRrising]

Hefty??

I would not consider it to be so.

The alternative was not to have delisted someone they did...or an extra pick at the tail end of the draft....plus player such as Reimers.

History is so far saying it has worked.....but if Gardi breaks down again...and Birrs declines...then history may need to be reviewed.

[rodgerfox]

Hefty??

I would not consider it to be so.

The alternative was not to have delisted someone they did...or an extra pick at the tail end of the draft....plus player such as Reimers.

History is so far saying it has worked.....but if Gardi breaks down again...and Birrs declines...then history may need to be reviewed.

Lindsay Gilbee was a pick 43.

The point I'm making is, that if our list is so bad and we have no kids coming through - pick 43 is actually a pretty valuable commodity.

[saintsRrising]

I disagree to an extent. I believe that there is no player who doesn't give their 110% when they pull on the guernsey. Not one.

But it is the level of their 110% against the opposition's level that is the issue.

Is their individual 110% enough? Or are they simply not good enough?

I think it is also that some players can concentrate harder for longer....which then equates into achieved workrate. Some players can and do push themselves more..

Now 100% is the maximum.....

Banger is a freak...and he is at say 98 on average%


You watch Banger...even if the team is getting thrashed..his work rate does not dip...he still runs and presents, and supports just as much....even if the ball is never passed to him.

Other team mates do not always.....

With Dal...there were some times in the Dogs match where he simply did not run as hard as he should have at times...


With Brooks, and again I think it wasa Dogs game....the ball was heading towards the Boundary...he anda Dogs player both in pursuit...

The ball looked like it would go out....and so Brooks slowed. The Dogs player kept running.....and the ball then bounced sideways and stayed in. Result was the Dogs player got an easy ball...under no pressure. Brooks should have kept running..but did not...and so no contest was achieved

Little things like that can add up to a lot over a game.

Now few had Banger's fitness (but many do now in his twlight years), but fewer still have his will and drive.


This willingness to work hard constantly is why Banger is having no problem with our game plan.

He finds space...and is there to link up...he finds targets in our forward 50. In part due to his ability to read the play...but also because he works hard.

[saintsRrising]

Hefty??

I would not consider it to be so.

The alternative was not to have delisted someone they did...or an extra pick at the tail end of the draft....plus player such as Reimers.

History is so far saying it has worked.....but if Gardi breaks down again...and Birrs declines...then history may need to be reviewed.

.

Lindsay Gilbee was a pick 43

Yes he was way back in 1999 and so his relevance to the Birrs/Gardiner trade is zero....AND unfortunately our recruiting in that period on did not give proper value and weight to players with good footskills and pace.

In the year we got Birrs and Gardi for pick 43...WCE took West Coast Tim Houlihan with it. I could not stand another Houlihan (nad has not played game!!!)...so went for Reimers taken just after to be fair.

The point I'm making is, that if our list is so bad and we have no kids coming through - pick 43 is actually a pretty valuable commodity.

Which is whyy it is very pleasing that we have not traded away our first round picks like previous incumbants.

Now....my personal preference is in the main to draft kids....as I have posted in the past.

However here we are discussing hereis what the club did do....and so two players who are perforiming for pick 43 would seem to be good value...even if one of them in Birrs is say a depth player.

[rodgerfox]

The point I'm making is, that if our list is so bad and we have no kids coming through - pick 43 is actually a pretty valuable commodity.

Which is whyy it is very pleasing that we have not traded away our first round picks like previous incumbants.

But we've traded away pick 43, which in the past has netted players such as Swallow and Gilbee.

If we're fair dinkum about getting kids, pick 43 is of pretty high value.

[saintsRrising]

If we're fair dinkum about getting kids, pick 43 is of pretty high value.

We should have not taken King then...pick 90 could have gained us the next James Hird.

[rodgerfox]

If we're fair dinkum about getting kids, pick 43 is of pretty high value.

We should have not taken King then...pick 90 could have gained us the next James Hird.

Exactly.

Where do you draw the line?

[evertonfc]

Our trading over the past two years has been fine. We gave up very little and gained quite a bit.

Our drafting over the past five years has been horrid. We've used on picks on players who haven't warranted such selections and have rarely struck a gem late the in the draft. Sam Fisher is about it.

They are two totally different things - they should complement one another at our club, but they don't.

[saintsRrising]

If we're fair dinkum about getting kids, pick 43 is of pretty high value.

We should have not taken King then...pick 90 could have gained us the next James Hird.

Exactly.

Where do you draw the line?

You don't.

BUT if a coach chooses to trade away picks that could have been used on kids (who may or may not succeed) then he needs to get it right....and his calls in that regard will be closely monitored.

The previous coach stuffed up badly in doing it post BW..

After we have had a season this year to measure Schneider's and Gardiners performance one will be able to make an initial judgement on RL's call.

However...so far so good.

[Cairnsman]

Our trading over the past two years has been fine.

Our drafting over the past five years has been horrid.

Two totally different things.

It would have been difficult to draft good players over the last few years with limited top 10 picks

[evertonfc]

Our trading over the past two years has been fine.

Our drafting over the past five years has been horrid.

Two totally different things.

It would have been difficult to draft good players over the last few years with limited top 10 picks

Geelong?

Good drafting isn't the accidental science many make it out to be.

[rodgerfox]

After we have had a season this year to measure Schneider's and Gardiners performance one will be able to make an initial judgement on RL's call.

Surely history has taught us that we need more than one season?

Ackland was top 10 B&F for us, and a main reason we played in a prelim in 05.

Guerra had a very good first year with us also.


Brooks, until he did his knee was showing alot also.

However...so far so good.

Gee, I think you're being a bit generous there.

[rodgerfox]

Geelong?

Good drafting isn't the accidental science many make it out to be.

Father-Son helped their cause a bit though to be fair.

[mischa]

I seem to remember that during the trade week when we got both Schneids @ Dempster for pick 26,people here were saying we bent Sydney over

Nope. We got them because of RL-Roos relationship. It's instructive to see how the trade period works...

[iwantmeseats]

Dont know if the focus is in the right place IMO. Yes, these guys cost us next to nothing with picks, yet we are holding back young guys who could be getting valuable experience in their place. Its a trade off I guess, but it dosent to me seem to be quite working at the moment.