the case for Raph

elvis lives · Sat 17 May 2008 1:01am

it seems like each week we get posters coming on here bemoaning the performance of Raph clarke, only to be inevitably howled down by 'true sainters' for being disloyal or, god forbid, a troll.

I am no bandwagoner and I don't have whipping boys. I have wanted Raph to be good from the day he arrived at the club and have given him the benefit of the doubt for a long time. Its fair to say my expectations/hopes are a very long way from being met.

So, can someone, preferably one of the people who abuse other posters people for bagging raph (joffaboy I'm looking at you), please outline the case for Raph Clarke. Can you please provide some reasoning for why Raph should be getting a game in an AFL side. Particularly when we have players like Ferguson, Mini, Geary, and allen pushing for a spot.

so, please, the case for raph:

NB: being tall is not a reason for an afl spot. also, yes he played a good game in defence in the 2005 final against adelaide at aami but that was three years ago and is not a reason.

elvis lives · Sat 17 May 2008 1:02am

oh, and the fact that I would be no better (and even that is doubtful) is not a reason either

LENNY LEADS THE WAY · Sat 17 May 2008 1:05am

Raph make any mistakes tonight? no he didn't

Did he get much ball? no he didn't

Did he take a great mark going back into a Rocca Max contest? yes he did

Did he show some good signs? yes he did

Do we need to persist with Raph? yes we do

iceman · Post: # 567723Post **iceman** » Sat 17 May 2008 1:06am

I honestly think think alot of it has been he has never had to work for his spot in the team. Which is why i think Mathew Ferguson shoulf be given next crack at senior level. He will give an arm and a leg to even sit on the pine for the Saints, yet Raph goes in on 'potential'.

The_Dud · Post: # 567728Post **The_Dud** » Sat 17 May 2008 1:07am

LENNY LEADS THE WAY wrote:Raph make any mistakes tonight? no he didn't

Did he get much ball? no he didn't

Did he take a great mark going back into a Rocca Max contest? yes he did

Did he show some good signs? yes he did

Do we need to persist with Raph? yes we do

the only good part of Raphs game tinight was that he didn't get near enough to the ball to cost us

he had ONE uncontested mark in the backline, thats it basically

his attempted marks on the lead tonight were almost comical

iwantmeseats · Sat 17 May 2008 2:38am

tradebait. I dont need to see anymore. If you disagree, its WAY beyond me. You only get so many chances at AFL level. It sorts the men from the boys, and this boy is god damn close to SORTED.

Richter · Post: # 567946Post **Richter** » Sat 17 May 2008 3:02am

iwantmeseats wrote:tradebait.

I don't think any other team would pick him up.

felixleo · Post: # 567969Post **felixleo** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:00am

Surely he has had his chance at playing as a backman by now. Either give him a go up forward or give someone else a go.

The_Dud · Post: # 567971Post **The_Dud** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:11am

felixleo wrote:Surely he has had his chance at playing as a backman by now. Either give him a go up forward or give someone else a go.

lol, did u see his attempts to mark on the lead.....

supersaints · Sat 17 May 2008 10:20am

The_Dud wrote:
felixleo wrote:Surely he has had his chance at playing as a backman by now. Either give him a go up forward or give someone else a go.
lol, did u see his attempts to mark on the lead.....

Gotta agree he is no backman, I can't see why RL persists with him there, Give in a lifeline in the forward line for half a dozen games ....

gooner · Post: # 568083Post **gooner** » Sat 17 May 2008 11:32am

iceman wrote:I honestly think think alot of it has been he has never had to work for his spot in the team. Which is why i think Mathew Ferguson shoulf be given next crack at senior level. He will give an arm and a leg to even sit on the pine for the Saints, yet Raph goes in on 'potential'.

From what I've read he has always been supremely talented, much more naturally gifted than his brother. I reckon as a kid he was always the best player on the ground at whatever level he played at. Therefore he did not know how to bust his arse. Never needed to. Could always beat people on raw talent alone.
AFL level is another step entirely and I don't think he has made that mental leap.
Having said that there were positive signs last night.

st_Trav_ofWA · Sat 17 May 2008 12:35pm

Richter wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:tradebait.
I don't think any other team would pick him up.

i think you would be suprised if his name was thrown up there would be a few nibbles from a few clubs looking to give him a chance especially when the new teams come in

Ralphy · Post: # 568167Post **Ralphy** » Sat 17 May 2008 12:36pm

st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
Richter wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:tradebait.
I don't think any other team would pick him up.
i think you would be suprised if his name was thrown up there would be a few nibbles from a few clubs looking to give him a chance especially when the new teams come in

trade both clarkes,

Sobraz · Post: # 568170Post **Sobraz** » Sat 17 May 2008 12:40pm

Hmmm...Raph... Ive got my words slow roasting in the oven, and after last nights effort, it looks like i'll be eating them soon...

I have been a massive Raph fan his whole career, and have defended him on this forum no end... Last night he was terrible... I really came away from the game having a re-think about where he is at...

He had a few flashes which many people wopuld have missed that were great, but his basics were what let him down last night, and it happened over and over again..

His aggression at the marking contest on the lead was weak, and his second efforts once the ball hit the deck were non-existant..

He actually seemed to go harder when he was playing down back at some stages.. Maybe he likes it in defence??...

Anyhow, I fear I may have defended him to the point of bias, as last night was not a sign of a future star..

stairwaytoheaven · Sat 17 May 2008 12:49pm

Raph was no doubt rated better than his brother and was talked up big time by all of us. He seems to lack awareness and does not have the speed or the nous to get rid of the ball quickly. Last weeks game he was good, this week he lacked pace, and just did not seem to be able to step up to this level. I agree with one other poster, give him a go in the forward line and if he can't cut it then we may have to let him go.

CeilidhSaint · Sat 17 May 2008 1:05pm

There is no place in AFL teams now for laconic players who have no presence, can't kick well, can't mark and don't have any spoiling technique.
End of story.
NEXT!
Essendon would probably have him. At this stage I would take a 2nd rounder.
He has had chronic back troubles but it is his mental state I worry more about...and mine too when I watch him play.
I don't care if Allen or the Fergberger are tried and even fail, we will never win a premiership with him in the team unless there is some drastic change in his application.

Hurricane · Post: # 568324Post **Hurricane** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:18pm

I was listening to 3AW (didnt watch the game) and every time Raph got near it Rex Hunt would say "dont give it to him" and make other comments about Raph being a poor player, laughed my ass off.

Now dont get me wrong I dont hate Raph Clarke but he has made no progress in 4 years on the list, his decision making and disposal are poor at best. He may be a great player in years to come but I dont see how.

If we are to be a fair dinkum side this year we need to punish players for poor form in the AFL and reward players for good form in the VFL. Seriously we have had some players putting in less than stellar efforts and still getting selected the next week. Even a youngster would be preferable than a poor performer. Its been some what proven with Armo (how good has he been since comming in)

At 4-4 its time to try some things, IMHO we need some new blood and mabey some confidence. I am so sick of seeing a slow, kick backwards, handball first game plan.

Once again I dont want to be seen as a "Raph knocker" but I dont belive Raph Clarke (at this moment) should be playing in the senior side.

BANG BANG

evertonfc · Post: # 568337Post **evertonfc** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:29pm

I was a fan, I desperately wanted him to come good, but it won't happen.

Seems like a nice person, but he's not up to it.

Let's stop beating around the bush here and playing the loyalty card. He's not up to AFL level - you just can't put it any other way.

The quicker we make peace with the fact that he's not good enough, the quicker we can go about building a premiership side.

goodie · Post: # 568340Post **goodie** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:33pm

Richter wrote:
iwantmeseats wrote:tradebait.
I don't think any other team would pick him up.

Fremantle might. They never learn.

I want to like Raph, but I flinch whenever he goes near the ball these days, and cry with surprise if he does something right. His awareness is appalling, and he makes the simplest of acts look difficult.

I say give Geary or Ferguson a crack

Solar · Post: # 568373Post **Solar** » Sat 17 May 2008 4:54pm

poor first half but was one of the few reasons we got back into it in that final quarter. Does alot of the little things, 1%'s.

Struggled as a lead up forward, needs to learn to extend the arms and take marks.

There were once again alot of worse players, but we all like our scape goats.

My question to those who want raph dropped, do you think he was worse then

Gehrig, charlie and milne. Gehrig refused to lead, charlie refuses to do what he's paid for as a forward (kick for goal) and milne is so up and down.

Gram refuses to attack the football, dempster is a dumb footballer who somehow forgot that didak is a left footer. Dal santo refuses to run hard and needs to sit down with max and learn desperation.

And thats just off my head. Seriously everyone expects raph to fail, yet I would expect him to play next week because he does the little things well and is still learning!

patto · Post: # 568410Post **patto** » Sat 17 May 2008 5:26pm

OK im a first time poster here and looked for a Saints forum out of the total frustration me and my gf have that Raph gets a spot in the team... This guy is shocking!!! Not up to AFL standards at all... Having Raph on the field effectively means we have 17 players as he muffs it and turns the ball over to the opposition virtually everytime he goes near it... He contibutes nothing to our side thats worth keeping him... Too slow, poor skills, bad awareness, total lack of effort, this guy just plain sux... Hes had more than enough chances and his time is up... Get rid of him now. and send Gehrig with him... (We do love Frase but his time is up as well)

Solar · Post: # 568421Post **Solar** » Sat 17 May 2008 5:34pm

patto wrote:OK im a first time poster here and looked for a Saints forum out of the total frustration me and my gf have that Raph gets a spot in the team... This guy is shocking!!! Not up to AFL standards at all... Having Raph on the field effectively means we have 17 players as he muffs it and turns the ball over to the opposition virtually everytime he goes near it... He contibutes nothing to our side thats worth keeping him... Too slow, poor skills, bad awareness, total lack of effort, this guy just plain sux... Hes had more than enough chances and his time is up... Get rid of him now. and send Gehrig with him... (We do love Frase but his time is up as well)

didn't notice the couple of great tackles, great handpass out of traffic and gutsy mark in that final quarter. Wasn't his greatest game, dropped a few marks which should have been marked but hell there were a half dozen who made more mistakes!

joffaboy · Post: # 568447Post **joffaboy** » Sat 17 May 2008 5:51pm

elvis lives wrote:I am a complete tosser. I have never had a root in my life blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda.....

Raph > you

cabbage.

patto · Post: # 568451Post **patto** » Sat 17 May 2008 5:52pm

Solar wrote:
didn't notice the couple of great tackles, great handpass out of traffic and gutsy mark in that final quarter. Wasn't his greatest game, dropped a few marks which should have been marked but hell there were a half dozen who made more mistakes!

A couple of tackles, a great handpass and a mark u mention?? I must be missing the part where thats a valuable 4 quarter contribution... Not enough to warrant a spot in the side IMO... And im not just talking about last nights game either... Same lackluster contribution from him every week...

starsign · Post: # 568486Post **starsign** » Sat 17 May 2008 6:22pm

This post echoes my sentiments as well ,except I relly don't need to hear the CASE for Raph unless its got a Y on the end of it anymore!

Thats it for me I'm affraid, I've tried to use constuctive criticism in
the case for and against . I've been be objective by recognizing that he has some obvious talent and have been pushing for him to be tried out down forward as he's been a liability in the back half.
The often repeated urguments and we will hear them again ...oh he wasn't on his own ...what about so and so doesn't hold water as everyone needs to be judged individually on the merits pro and con
Apart from the more common of his faults recited ad nauseum over the past few weeks is another infuriating habit he has of loosing his feet and eliminating himself from the contest week in week out I did mention it a few weeks ago , but i've noticed each game he will lunge to tackle an opponent from just out of fingertip reach, go to ground and be out of it
Its critical nowdays for players to hold their feet , he just can't seem to too often
Joffaboy it looks like many of the faithful are getting off your ship

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