We're not sydney: Lyon

[sainters man]

ST KILDA coach Ross Lyon has ferociously rebutted claims his team is a defensively minded bore. He said it was "mischievous" and "garbage" to suggest his team played lock-down football similar to the notoriously defensive game style of the Sydney Swans.

"Anyone who says we are playing lock-down footy is kidding themselves," Lyon said.

"We don't play lock-down footy, we are lucky to target one player a week. That's inaccurate."

Asked who was driving the perception, he said: "I don't know, who's in the media that's perpetuating it?"

Grant Thomas?

"No, I don't think it is. But I think there is a perception we play like the Swans. What a load of garbage. It couldn't be further from the truth. They have 100 stoppages a week and we have 60."

Related LinksAdventurous football: Saints' goals, wins dry up
Ask any (of my) players. I'd think they'd say in the first half of last year, yeah, but since then, no way, impossible."

Thomas, who was sacked by the Saints and replaced by Lyon at the start of last year, yesterday inflamed the Saints debate by asking: "Ross, what is your game style?"

He said the Saints under Lyon were too defensive and content to have a "Mexican stand-off" with inferior opposition.

Body: Lyon said his method was simple: "There are three phases - contest, attack and defence and play them all equally."

Letting his team down, he said, was winning the contested ball.

"There's a common theme. When you can't get on top in the midfield, you don't score that heavily," Lyon said.

"Our issue is we haven't been winning the ball consistently in contested ball. It's been swinging in games.

"Why have the Bulldogs improved? The contested ball and their tackling."

The outside criticism of the ninth-placed Saints (3-3) centres on goals kicked, and Lyon says it is unfair to compare his 2008 team to the one that Thomas coached in 2006.

"There is a perception and romance that St Kilda used to go out and kick 14, 15 and 16 goals every week in 2006.

"Well, let me give you this fact - they kicked 10 goals or less . . . how many times do you think? . . . They kicked 10 goals or less eight times," Lyon said.

"In 2007, we too kicked 10 goals or less eight times, but seven of those were up to Round 11. So I think it is mischievous to start going down that track."

He conceded his first 11 games in charge were "indefensible", but his team had made positive adjustments since.

"In our last 17 games, we have kicked less than 12 goals four times," he said.

"Up to Round 11 last year, we kicked less than 10 goals seven times.

"I said at the time it was indefensible and we weren't happy and then we fixed our ball use and out of the last 11 we kicked 12 goals or more 10 times.

"I've got it here in front of me . . . and we've played six games this year. We kicked 6.15 (against Sydney), 19 against Carlton, 13 against the Western Bulldogs, but it dried up and they smacked us, and then went 13.16 against Geelong and kicked three or four out on the full, and we had 55 inside 50s.

"Then we kicked 18.15 against Essendon and nine on the weekend and we blew the first quarter.

"So in our last 17 games we've kicked more than 12 goals 13 times - is that lock-down footy?"

Lyon also offered statistics that showed his team allowed more uncontested possession than Sydney (182), Western Bulldogs (226) and Richmond (227).

"We are 250 and ranked ninth," he said. "We don't play lock-down footy . . . we rank eighth at 49 inside 50s . . . deal with the facts."

He said Riewoldt's best position was inside 50m.

"He's kicking three goals a week," Lyon said.

The Saints meet Richmond on Saturday night at Telstra Dome, a match Lyon has labelled "massive".

"I was bitterly disappointed we lost last week, the players were bitterly disappointed. But we're three-three and we've got massive upside," he said.

"We haven't wavered in our belief we can match it with anyone, but talk's cheap. We've got to get four quarters together."

[sainters man]

I recon we will come out firing this week!

[St DAC]

As we need to. And we shouldn't need a rev-up in the press to prompt our better efforts. The players need to get their fingers out collectively and start playing up to their potential, rather than relying on reputation only.

On form we are massively overrated by the football press. Lyon is right, talk is cheap. Let's see some action from the playing group.

[Batnoe]

Compare those stats to 2004- not 2006

[saintsRrising]

Compare those stats to 2004- not 2006

Why????...RL did not inherit the team from 2004..he gained the 2006 model.

Don't underestimate the value of players such as Aussie and Heath Black who could run and break the lines and then actually hit targets with precise kicking.



Until Gram learns to pass accurately Aussie is >>>>>>>>>>> Gram by a big margin.

[yipper]

As we need to. And we shouldn't need a rev-up in the press to prompt our better efforts. The players need to get their fingers out collectively and start playing up to their potential, rather than relying on reputation only.

On form we are massively overrated by the football press. Lyon is right, talk is cheap. Let's see some action from the playing group.

Exactly - it's the players who need to walk the walk. They have been at times lazy, unaccountable and mentally fragile. Now, they need to pull their fingers out and start producing some consistency in their efforts.

[saintsRrising]

Roo said at the B&F that all the players need to get on the bus....

Well so far too many of them are not on the bus each week or for 4 quarters....

[Batnoe]

If they're not on the bus, they need to spend a week in the 2's regardless of name

I know he didnt take over from 2004, but he was comparing us to 2006 when we werent playing attacking footy anyway, hence coming 8th....

GT's gameplan was easy to read so that dried us up.

We still have majority of players from 2004,( i think a better team,) why not score like 2004?

[JeffDunne]

He's really dining out on that last 11 games last season.

Look at the draw Ross and the teams we are scoring heavily against.


Anyhow it's clear everyone other then Ross is wrong.

St Kilda supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Media commentators think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition teams think we are playing a negative gameplan.

And most importantly . . .

Our players think we are playing a negative gameplan.


But hey, who am I to argue with Ross.

Apparantly we're playing attacking footy!!!

[brown-coat]

I recon we will come out firing this week!

ken oath!

[mad saint guy]

Lyon can go on about the number of stoppages and contested possessions all he bloody wants. People are reminded by of Sydney when they watch us because it's boring and low-scoring. That can not be argued.

[Behind Play]

Lyon can go on about the number of stoppages and contested possessions all he bloody wants. People are reminded by of Sydney when they watch us because it's boring and low-scoring. That can not be argued.

Don't worry about a, Sydney style of play, what is more worrying is the players are either not listening to him, because he cannot get the message across or they don't respect him.
Lyon needs to change the way he handles these players........may be he should look at the way a, Malthouse or Mathews rip through their players. Publicly, Malthouse told his players you stand up in big games (ANZAC DAY) or your future is limited. Mathews obviously had enough of Aka and just pissed him off.
Ross you are dealing with men, who want to be treated like men.

[nicko016]

Well, at least he knows his facts pretty well.

But on more serious note, the 2nd half of last year was quite good but at the moment it appears we have gone backwards since then. I guess we'll have to wait and see if we can turn it around in the next month or so like last year.

[Gilbert=Legend]

Ever since we got ross we have gone from bad to worse.

[Eastern]

This is VERY FIRST time that I can recall that Ross Lyon has shown any emotion/passion towards the St Kilda Footy Club and I'm wrapt that he is showing same.

If it is because of what Grant Thomas said, I say Good On Grant & Good On Ross. We are St Kilda. We need PASSION !!

[iwantmeseats]

I suppose Eastern, but jeez it would only be a dash wouldnt it? Listening to the presser I pretty much heard the usual spin delivered with the usual non emotion. I want more from Ross, Get MAD , SAD or HAPPY , maybe its just me

[Eastern]

I suppose Eastern, but jeez it would only be a dash wouldnt it? Listening to the presser I pretty much heard the usual spin delivered with the usual non emotion. I want more from Ross, Get MAD , SAD or HAPPY , maybe its just me

Nah, it not just you. We all want to see Ross show some emotion/passion. Let's hope this is just the start for him. It might even bring the playing group a bit closer together too !!

[Dan Warna]

it was hard not to supress a little smile when someone said after half time against footscray, words along the lines of 'perhaps rossy put them to sleep with his quarter time address'

[bobmurray]

Maybe Ross put them off with his walk...

[Badlands]

Interesting that Ross was armed with all the necessary statistics to try to counter the argument that we have become the St Kilda Swans.
Possibly the fact that it's become obvious to everyone other than Ross...

[rodgerfox]

Is it a worry that Lyon seems more animated and passionate about defending his own game plan and style than winning games?

[aussiejones]

Is it a worry that Lyon seems more animated and passionate about defending his own game plan and style than winning games?

YEP

I for one want to see ROSS get angry . Drop a few non tryers to the Scorps. Even try something different !

Sure a hell what going on now aint working !@

[Teflon]

He's really dining out on that last 11 games last season.

Look at the draw Ross and the teams we are scoring heavily against.


Anyhow it's clear everyone other then Ross is wrong.

St Kilda supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Media commentators think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition teams think we are playing a negative gameplan.

And most importantly . . .

Our players think we are playing a negative gameplan.


But hey, who am I to argue with Ross.

Apparantly we're playing attacking footy!!!

So lets check up on "Jeff's logic"...

Media says our game plan is negative - it must be true
St Kilda supporters say game plan is negative - it must be true
Opposition supporters (Jeffs Bigfooty mates) say our game plan is negative - has to be true...

The coach has come out, The Captain has come out and said we ARENT playing the game plan instructed yet as the instructed game plan is an attacking one YET......these "insiders" according to Jeffster are delusional and making things up cause our game plan is really a negative one.........I mean ...what would they know in comparison to you and Bigfooty hey Jeffery?

Ahh...your a breath of fresh air...........on Big footy.

[JeffDunne]

For the 10,000th time Teffers . . . it's "you're a breath of fresh air" not "your a breath of fresh air".

And that was the accurate part of your post.

Since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, lets check up on "Teffer's logic" . . .

- we are the lowest scoring team in the comp
- we play the least attractive football in the league
- we are stuggling to beat bottom 4 teams
- our skills are as bad as any in the league
- by our coach's admission, the players aren't following instructions

But hey don't worry . . . this isn't by design. It's all ok because we aren't trying to be that bad.

Lyon has one s*** hot, attacking gameplan that will knock everyone's socks off but you'll need to wait until he learns how to implement it before you get to see it.

Thing is Teffers, and you're the expert on this, talk is cheap.

I judge on actions and results.


It's a bit like how I judge you from your Bigfooty references . . . with gems like the following post there from YOU :

Saintsational Disgrace

Seems as though Saintsational has gone off the rails and is now run by a select "boys club" of moderators. Yep Ive been banned but since have also found another 5 who have been banned as well without any reason......mods there allow some posters to slag off at anyone and everyone......with others singled out.

Shame...it was onced a great site...now run by a group of psychophants who dont like an alternative opinion to their own........I thought it was supposed yo be a site for ALL Saints fans - and this was part of the reason it USES the St Kilda Football Clubs name?????

Might be worth a club letter....

Did you send the club that letter?

Did you sign it "A Hypocrite"?

[Teflon]

He's really dining out on that last 11 games last season.

Look at the draw Ross and the teams we are scoring heavily against.


Anyhow it's clear everyone other then Ross is wrong.

St Kilda supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition supporters think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Media commentators think we are playing a negative gameplan.
Opposition teams think we are playing a negative gameplan.

And most importantly . . .

Our players think we are playing a negative gameplan.


But hey, who am I to argue with Ross.

Apparantly we're playing attacking footy!!!

Jeffery,Jeffery....your coming out lecturing me on english....and you spell APPARENTLY like that...

You silly man.

Lets get back on topic (stay focussed Jeff)

We - thats all of us bar you - dont really know what Lyons game plan is. What we do know Jeff is that both the captain AND coach have publicly stated we are not implementing the game plan that is being instructed.

Now I understand thats not good enough for you Jeff - cause your an "action man" so therefore ewed (that ones for you..) rather listen to opposition supporters on Bigfooty and pretend the coach/captain are involved in some sort of cover up/lie. Fair enough Jeff, it must be hard getting up each day with that paranoia following you everywhere.

Therefore Jeff, IF (lets assume Ross/Riewoldt arent liars for just a second... ) we havent produced a 4 qtr effort of the coaches desired game plan....how is it you can pass judgement on this yet - all you have is a bunch of poor results for a game plan that hasnt been implemented/followed?

Its really not that hard......even for you....is it?

BTW - I appreciate I dominate so much of your time you find yourself trawling through your Bigfooty archives (now there's some history/reading) to dig up irrelevant quotes......I am flattered

PS I sent the letter and received a response but thats for another day...