Forget tunnelling. What about corralling?

[widereceiver]

Snore bore

Apart from the fact that it looks ugly and is boring as batshyte, our tactic of standing off and letting our opponents move the ball from their full back to hf without a single man-on-man contest is driving me insane.

In the 3rd.quarter Carlton helped us out on three occasions by missing gettable goals and plenty of turnovers. Quality teams won't be so generous, as was proven last year.

In the last quarter we let in 6 goals!!!
Bloody 6
At least three were from the genius corralling tactic.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

This annoys the hell out of me aswell and i think to myself why don't u just charge him but i'm guessing ur average afl footballer no's just a little bit more about the game then u and me.

Maybe they don't want to over commit leaing a free passage thru if they charge the player and fail i don't no that's my guess anyway.

[Iceman234]

When the umpire calls play on from a mark/free - when he's considered his 16.5 seconds or whatever the interpretation is - just a concerted effort to run directly AT the ball handler.

Normally 9/10 times he will make his way around, as that is evasive skills taught from a young age now.

But the more pressure applied, especially if there is already scoreboard pressure, and applied directly AT certain designated players, and the ground position may just make them turn the ball over 3/10 times.

If the ball-handler gets around, there may be a twenty metre advantage, but I saw the Dogs do it last week and do it well, when Adelaide were called to play on, a Dog ran at them- immediately, directly and hard.

It is a tactic which I hope would be looked at in the coming weeks with the tough oppo's we have.

[widereceiver]

I think it's RL's strategy though. Under GT we didn't do that. I know the latter's coaching was flawed but we were more fun to look at in the Saints BLITZKRIEG days.

All will be forgiven if we win the flag!

[The_Dud]

THE most frustrating aspect of our play

it just doesn't make sense to me......

[saintsrus]

Im not a coaches ahole but wouldnt it make more sense to play man on man with the aim of forcing an error? In our forward line FFS!
We have the guys to do this Lenny, Bally and co, even Milneys tackling is getting up there.

[widereceiver]

exactly my point saintsrus. In ice hockey, it's called fore-checking and it bloody works. Corralling doesn't inspire fear in an opponent.

[jonesy]

Terrible to watch. Let's face it,if it was another side who played like this we'd be up in arms. Sydney aren't even as boring as us. We have the most exciting talent on paper in the league,yet we play this snoozefest trash. Lyon has to be the worst coach of all time in terms of providing a spectacle for the game,yes,worse than Roos.

Look,it may end up working and i could be totally wrong,but at this point in time I am not convinced at all,and a lot of fans I know are equally concerned.

We've been playing this messy junk for 12 months now. When we win we say "imagine how good we are going to be when we put it together!". Still waiting for us too put together!! Last year the West Coast and Hawthorn games are the only one's that come to mind as good,confident performances. The rest are scratchy,skill error riddled abominations of matches that we don't run out!

I just don't walk away from our matches with a good feeling anymore,thinking we will blow away anyone. Not saying it's not going too improve under Lyon,but at this point,I'm still a skeptic.
And don't think I'm a pro GT either,because halfway through 06 I thought we were going backwards with him also

Last night we kicked 18-19 goals,probably one of the highest we've kicked under Lyon's helm,but really I wouldn't read anything into last night. Carlton were as bad as I've seen any team play for a long long time. That second half they should of been pummeled into the dirt. However I just don't think we're capable of pummeling any side into the dirt because of this taxing gameplan.

Anyway,I guess the perfect indication will come in the next 4 rounds with games against the Grand Finalists and two young quick sides. It will give a perfect indicator of the gameplan and where we are at. If it works I'll eat my words and be more than happy to shut up . However at this point,I am far from convinced that this current system is one that will take us forward ...time will tell

[Cirra]

I just don't walk away from our matches with a good feeling anymore,thinking we will blow away anyone.

I'd hate to know how you'd be feeling if we lost.

Last night we kicked 18-19 goals,probably one of the highest we've kicked under Lyon's helm,but really I wouldn't read anything into last night. Carlton were as bad as I've seen any team play for a long long time. That second half they should of been pummeled into the dirt. However I just don't think we're capable of pummeling any side into the dirt because of this taxing gameplan.

Do we need to pummel sides? Why is that so important?
I know we all like to see 100 pt wins but what's the necessity?
As long as we are winning, does it matter by how much?

[mad saint guy]

I think it's RL's strategy though. Under GT we didn't do that. I know the latter's coaching was flawed but we were more fun to look at in the Saints BLITZKRIEG days.

In 2006 when the Doggies were killing everyone with their pace and agility, GT had the team corall the opposition rather than charging at them and let them run around us and it worked brilliantly. Completely shut down their run and the Dogs have never been anywhere near as effective since.

[saintsrus]

Do we need to pummel sides? Why is that so important?
I know we all like to see 100 pt wins but what's the necessity?
As long as we are winning, does it matter by how much?

MMM Percentage maybe?

May well be the difference for a home final (if we make it) as to going to Subi or Adelaide

[Cirra]

Do we need to pummel sides? Why is that so important?
I know we all like to see 100 pt wins but what's the necessity?
As long as we are winning, does it matter by how much?

MMM Percentage maybe?

May well be the difference for a home final (if we make it) as to going to Subi or Adelaide

That's true. The late goals kicked by Carlton isn't desirable and I would hope that next time we don't drop off so much that a 60 pt win turns into a 40 pt win. If that happens a couple of times in the season that could cost us a couple of % points.

My main points it - if we keep winning it doesn't matter by how much.
I would take two 10 point wins over one 100 pt win and a loss any day.

I'm just so surprised that so many people on here are upset.

We won - does it matter by how much??

[widereceiver]

Cirra,

It is the end of Round Two - I love when we win by any margin. I am not complaining about winning.
If you want to raise that subject, though, it was hardly a glorious victory.

The point I am raising is I dispute that we will beat good sides playing that junk style. The post is about tactics, not the margin over an appalling Carlton side.

MSG,

I do recall that game and I concede that point, though that says more about Dogs inability to combat the tactic. I didn't say RL invented corralling but I think it is a routine strategy of his which denies playing to our strengths up forward while leaking goals. (no pun intended, Fev)

[jonesy]

Do we need to pummel sides? Why is that so important?
I know we all like to see 100 pt wins but what's the necessity?
As long as we are winning, does it matter by how much?

MMM Percentage maybe?

May well be the difference for a home final (if we make it) as to going to Subi or Adelaide

That's true. The late goals kicked by Carlton isn't desirable and I would hope that next time we don't drop off so much that a 60 pt win turns into a 40 pt win. If that happens a couple of times in the season that could cost us a couple of % points.

My main points it - if we keep winning it doesn't matter by how much.
I would take two 10 point wins over one 100 pt win and a loss any day.

I'm just so surprised that so many people on here are upset.

We won - does it matter by how much??

We won yes, and we are 2-0,which is good,but have to look at the bigger picture. On those performances of the past fortnight,and last year,we won't beat the top sides. It's not so much the result,but the performance of the past fortnight. If we keep winning all well and good,but I'm not sure we will topple the better sides playing like this,infact I'm convinced we won't. Not saying we can't improve ,because we can,and we will need to big time!
I'll leave my judgement for another 4 weeks and get back to you

[meher baba]

Let's face it, SS is divided into two camps:

1. Those (like me) who continue to be concerned at the style of play Lyon has imposed on the team, the way that it seems to make it difficult for us to dominate games for 4 quarters and build up unassailable leads: even against poor opponents, to whom (with the occasional exception of Essendon) we used to give routine thrashings in 2004-06.

2. Those who believe that it is all a matter of time, that Ross Lyon supercoach is just gradually bringing the team to the boil, at which point we will see fabulous direct movement of the ball into the forward 50, big wins against good teams like Geelong and the Hawks, etc., etc.

I just don't agree with those who hold the second position. Everything I observe about RL - his body language in the box, what he says in post match interviews, etc. - suggests to me that he is a relatively unconfident man who coaches by system rather than instinct, and who becomes somewhat frazzled when things don't go as he expects them to go.

That said, he seems more confident this season than last - he is, after all, still a relatively new coach - and he has made some attacking moves of his own rather than simply regurgitating the defensive, robotic crap that he learnt at the Swans. He even moved Kosi into the ruck last night about 10 minutes after I suggested he should do this: so he's clearly got some idea!!

But, as others have said, the corralling is tedious in the extreme, and I can't even see that it works that well. Still, we have won our first two games and have conceded a relatively low number of points, so I don't think our defence is our major problem ATM.

[widereceiver]

Meher, I am in a zen-like state of synchronous nirvana with your post. I applaud your perspicacity at commenting on our ludicrous inability to routinely pump Essendon back in the heady days of the Saint's blitzkrieg.

GT's inability to observe that Sheedy always used to switch the play from the back line cost us three games at the Dome.

[saint66au]

I'll tell you whats more frustrating..when other teams "corral" and we dont take advantage of it!!

I'm a little bit over grammy, Gilbo, Raph or whoever taking a mark on defensive 50 and, because Carlton had "coralled", 40m of open space in front of them and noone on the mark. But what do they do? Just stand there or at best jog leisurely for 15m before chipping 35m to a potential contest. Total? 50m...of which they cold ahve had 40m for free if they'd just taken off when they had it in the first place

The other danger of course is what happened to Raph and Scheider last week. Ump calls play on and you get run down from behind cos theres no-one within cooee to tell you that you're hot.

[rodgerfox]

Meher, I am in a zen-like state of synchronous nirvana with your post. I applaud your perspicacity at commenting on our ludicrous inability to routinely pump Essendon back in the heady days of the Saint's blitzkrieg.

GT's inability to observe that Sheedy always used to switch the play from the back line cost us three games at the Dome.

Huh??

Round 4, 21 Apr 2007 Telstra Dome St Kilda defeated by Essendon 68-99 B. Stanton 33
N. Riewoldt 4

Round 15, 15 Jul 2006 MCG Essendon defeated by St Kilda 71-74 J. Johnson 41
A. Lovett 3
F. Gehrig 3
S. Milne 3

Round 13, 24 Jun 2005 Telstra Dome Essendon defeats St Kilda 119-104 J. Murphy 30
M. Lloyd 4
N. Riewoldt 4

Round 17, 23 Jul 2004 Telstra Dome St Kilda defeats Essendon 127-92 J. Johnson 26
F. Gehrig 8

Round 2, 3 Apr 2004 Telstra Dome Essendon defeated by St Kilda 60-94 J. Hird 33
S. Lucas 4


They beat us once, and that day they kicked 19.5!!

[widereceiver]

if you wish to be pedantic, fair enough. So it was two matches.

GT's inability to observe that Sheedy always used to switch the play from the back line cost us TWO games at the Dome...

when we were a much more talented and cohesive side.
I hate losing to Essendon

[rodgerfox]

if you wish to be pedantic, fair enough. So it was two matches.

GT's inability to observe that Sheedy always used to switch the play from the back line cost us TWO games at the Dome...

when we were a much more talented and cohesive side.
I hate losing to Essendon

One of those losses was last year.