Who are our 'Premiership Quality' players?

[mad saint guy]

Thinking of the past few premiership teams, it becomes very obvious that many of our players simply don't possess the same level of ability as the players who play in premiership teams. Our first 12 or so players are fine, but after that we just have so many flawed/below standard players. Some of those players might be able to take their game up a level and help us win a premiership, but I feel that we need to make the tough decision on a few players who seem to almost be good enough.

We need players who can consistently perform throughout the H&A season and then have a real positive impact in the finals series. We have too many players who occasionally have a good game and retain their spot because of it.

Requirements for premiership players
- Skills and decision-making must be clean enough to properly execute the game plan. No use in playing someone who links up in a forward attack and turns the ball over or concedes cheap goals in defence.

- Fitness must be at a level where they can contribute throughout the game. I'm sick of seeing players incapable of running at three quarter pace in the last quarter while the opposition cuts down our lead and wins the game.

- Defensive pressure has to be at an acceptable level. This doesn't just mean tackling in the clearances and running down players from behind. We can't continue to let opposition sides get players in space. Dal Santo is a prime culprit of this. If he got his defensive pressure up he would be an elite player.

- Must be able to play at least 18 games on average per season. No use in keeping players who can only string together 10 half-baked games because of reoccurring injuries.

- Strength has to be at least good enough to hold their ground in an ordinary one-on-one contest. We have far too many players who lose their feet and let the opposition run away with the ball uncontested

1 - Skills
2 - Fitness
3 - Accountability
4 - Durability
5 - Strength

Obviously not every player can kick like Dal Santo, run like Harvey, persue like Baker, stay uninjured like Milne and throw full backs into the crowd like Gehrig. However if a player is severely lacking in a couple of those areas the chances are that they wouldn't get a game in most premiership teams.

There are players who lack a few of those attributes that will stay on the list as backup, but you won't win a flag with those guys in the team.

I will only comment on players over 20.

Attard - Severely lacks the number one attribute. A backup player and nothing more. Shouldn't play in finals.
Baker - He only just scrapes in these days. His skills are reasonable, his fitness is average, accountability and strength are good but the suspensions he is getting means that he isn't likely to play more than 18 games in the H&A season.
Birss - Most areas of his game are just ok. At the moment he would be an emergency for most premiership teams. He will be retained due to our pathetic midfield depth, but needs to lift a notch if he is to be a long-term player for us.
Blake - He is also on the list because of our lack of depth. He had his best season this year and justified his selection in about 15 games, but never really contributes. He should be retained as backup, but shouldn't be played ahead of kids with more ability. Not premiership quality.
Brooks - Has most attributes needed but needs to lift his workrate if he is ever going to make something of himself. Has all the tools and talent to become a quality player of a successful side, just needs to work for it. One more year.
R.Clarke - He should be given another year, but unless he lifts his workrate and plays 90% of the season he should go. He does have the ability, but laziness means his fitness is crap and his poor preparation leads to frequent injuries.
X.Clarke - He should be as good as Didak right now, but his fitness and durability aren't up to scratch. Will sign a one year contract and if he performs he will stay. If he doesn't improve he will be traded.
Dal Santo - Can't be content with being a very good player and needs to become elite. 1, 4 and 5 are perfect. 2 and 3 are very ordinary. He is premiership quality, but he should be a key player rather than just a contributor.
Ferguson - He could be a useful flanker for another side, but he doesn't make a significant contribution and we don't need him.
Fiora - Ticks all the boxes IMO. He'll never be a star, but he makes a good contribution and his strengths are a real asset to the side. Usually our only player who can still run with the footy by the end of a game.
L.Fisher - Just needs to get a bit fitter and decide whether he's a small defender or a tagger. Then he will be a very good player.
S.Fisher - Absolute gun. As long as he is playing as a third tall defender (not a key defender or loose man) he is an awsome player with all the tools.
Gardiner - Four years ago? Yes. 2008? Maybe. If he doesn't do anything of note next year he should be delisted. Has the skills, will work for the fitness, has plenty of aggression and strength, but might not be able to get on the ground.
Gilbert - Yes. Ticks all the boxes.
Goddard - Before his injury he was dominating. If he can perform at a similar level then he is definitely premiership quality.
Gram - He really needs to work on his defensive skills/accountability. He was played as a third tall defender for most of 2007 and his game suffered. If he can get back to his 2006 form with his new and improved decision-making he is definitely good enough.
Gwilt - Not right now. He does has most areas covered, but needs to find a position and sharpen up his decision-making before he would be included in a finals side. Has the potential though.
Harvey - Yes, but will only be a backup midfielder in 2008.
Hayes - Yes.
Hudghton - He is the best full back in the competition when he gets on the ground, but if he can't play at least 18 games next year he should retire.
Jones - No. Doesn't have the skills, and for an outside midfielder that is absolutely crucial.
Koschitzke - He appears to be getting back on track and just needs to settle into a permanent role. Gun.
Maguire - If he gets back to his 2004-2005 form then yes. If he can't improve on his 2007 form then no.
McQualter - He has the raw ability, but if he doesn't force his way into the side and actually make a contribution then he will be delisted. I still think he will make it.
Milne - Yes. As long as he lifts his fitness a bit and learns to make the simple tackles stick then he is an important player for us. His brilliant 2005 is seeing him judged very harshly these days. No small forward can keep up that kind of form.
Montagna - Yes, ticks all the boxes.
Riewoldt - Yes.
Rix - No. Has fitness, strength and durability, but has no football skill whatsoever. People say that he has a crack, but you need more than that these days. Will be retained as insurance but shouldn't ever play in a final.
Watts - Looking at it objectively you would say no. He doesn't have the pace to get away from quality defenders on a lead or the strength to beat them in a marking contest. However he will be given another year to see if he can get by on his height, marking ability and aggression.

Pemiership quality players

Baker
Dal Santo
L.Fisher
S.Fisher
Fiora
Gilbert
Goddard
Gram
Harvey
Hayes
Hudghton
Koschitzke
Maguire
Milne
Montagna
Riewoldt

That is 16 players who you would back to make a positive contribution in a Grand Final. At any given time about 4 of those players would be injured. In a Grand Final the most amount of ordinary players you could carry would be 2. That means we have to develop/recruit roughly 8 quality players to be a genuine premiership contendor. Port had far too many players who weren't up to it and they payed the price. This year Geelong has made the likes of Mooney, Kelly, Ottens, Johnson and Stokes go up a level and become regular contributors. They have also brought Selwood into the side.

If we can develop a few of McQualter, Birss, X.Clarke, R.Clarke, Armitage, Howard, Gwilt, Brooks and a Geary/Eddy into quality players after a huge pre season and extended opportunities in the seniors then we would be a genuine threat. But if we continue to play Blake, Rix and Jones we just won't go anywhere. Each year we have usually discovered one or two real talents. 2005 - Sam Fisher. 2006 - Jason Gram, Leigh Fisher, Leigh Montagna. 2007 - Sam Gilbert. Unfortunately the rate of quality players being developed is lower than the rate of quality players we are losing. We need to stop stalling the team and try to discover more players who can do more than just fill a hole.

[chook23]

Geelon had great depth

their bottom six afl wise very good.

Their reserves contained players that would probably be in a lot of afl teams bottom first 22.

Our list overall is not as good as some rate IMHO.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

100% correct

we need to develop our bottom 6 per 22 that step onto the field...

[Carl Mynott]

I think the only way to achieve what msg is talking about here is to tweak the list in as smart a manner as is possible.They should recruit for need in the draft,rather than pick who they rate as best available whenever it is St Kilda's turn to pick a player.

I'm sure things will be different this draft,Ross knows what he needs and he has a new recruiter who no doubt has been told what to look for....

I can't wait for trade week,i hope we are in it in some way......

[Oh When the Saints]

See what you are saying, but there are a couple of qualifiers.

For instance, Cam Mooney and Shane Clayton were not "Premiership Quality" players in 1999, and yet both played in a winning GF side.

Aaron Keating wasn't a premiership quality player in 1997, and nor was McDonald in 2001 for the Lions.


So whilst you need 19-20 "Premiership Quality", there are always going to be a couple of guys who aren't at that level.

We could easily win a flag with Blake/Rix/X. Clarke/Birss in the team.

[ausfatcat]

I am sure if geelong this time last year asked the same question, they would've said they had 10 premiership players and one year later.......... It's not about getting rid of players or trading but geting the best out of the players you already have.

[saintsRrising]

Now based on where players currently are (ignoring injury) I have put them as a Yes they are good enough, No they are not...ora maybe for some. Now some like watts may turn things around in 2008...BUT they are not there yet.


Attard -Maybe
Baker - Yes
Birss - maybe

Blake - No

Brooks - No

R.Clarke - Maybe

X.Clarke -Yes
Dal Santo - Yes

Ferguson - No

Fiora - Yes
L.Fisher - Yes
.
S.Fisher - Yes
Gardiner - Maybe

Gilbert - Yes.
Goddard - Yes
Gram - Yes

Gwilt - No
Harvey - Yes,
Hayes - Yes.
Hudghton - Yes
Jones - No. .
Koschitzke - Yes
Maguire - Yes
McQualter - No

Milne - Yes.
Montagna - Yes,
Riewoldt - Yes.
Rix - No.
Watts - No


So that is 17 with a yes..... the cats have more than 22 who would get a yes.


We don't have the depth YET that we need to have and should have had had we not fritted away drafts and trades over 2004...2005..

Too many players have not been developed properly and too many players rejected from other clubs as not god enough were secured.

[saintsRrising]

I am sure if geelong this time last year asked the same question, they would've said they had 10 premiership players and one year later.......... It's not about getting rid of players or trading but geting the best out of the players you already have.

Yes agree...and it is worth repeating..but geting the best out of the players you already have


Indeed....so at the Cats

*riot act given to Stevo.......BOG in GF!!!!!
*Gary A told that he needs to deliver more as he is good enough to not just be good bit should be outstanding (Dal anyone???)
*Mooney at last harnesses his aggression into football rather than brawls( well hall did too...BUT AFTER he left us for the swans)
*Ottens at last gaining self-belief to put in week in week out (Fiora anyone...)


**all players mentally swithch on more due to the ctas haing the same motivator that Alves used in 97!!!!!

**cats get more of their cattle on the field with new medical and conditioning staff starting in May 2006...





BUT having said all of that it is also very true that the cats have practiced active list mangement....it was said for years that they needed some big forwards to complete their team....and with Mooney from the kanga, Ottens from Richond and talking the very reluctant Nathan ablett into playing they gained the players they needed.

If you look for through the ctas list it is very balanced......and the only luck that they have had has been a swag of father sons.

[St.Kenny]

well researched and fair analysis !

[st_Trav_ofWA]

what a load of crap any player has the abillity to be a premiership player
when your team is winning suddenly all your players a quallity but when your not only your real stars are concidered quallity

that fableed perfect team is never going to happen there is not one team with 22 stars but the really good teams spread the load enuff it looks like they have ever possition covered

we sucked this year not from the cattle we had on the paddock but from the effort from the cattle

[SaintWodonga]

I don't think we have enough game breakers in the side.
Sure Rooy gets heaps of the ball, but he doesn't hurt you enough on the score bord.

Kosi, looks promising, but needs to be more consistant.

Dal simply does not kick enough goals.

We really need more small-mid sized goal kickers.