Cal Wilkie vs Luke Penny and Max Hudghton

[WellardSaint]

Yesterday, a guy on X asked Grant Thomas if Wilkie is equal to Luke Penny and Max H.

GT said
Penny yes, Max-no.
Hudghton had incredible closing speed. Played on slippery midgets and power talls. Much underrated

I don't agree with GT as I believe Cal is as good as Max, and also Max was never underrated, as pretty much every Sainter who saw games in that era realised just how talented and passionate Max was.
Maybe he means footy media and others.
Or Ross underrated Max.
Didn't pick him for the 2009 GF.

Perhaps GT thinks Cal has better support than Max, due to Battle and Sinclair, plus Doogs.

Anyway, I highly respect his opinion, but I don't agree with him.

[Sainter_Dad]

In My Opinion

Wilkie = Max


Penny

But you are right - you cannot review this without considering support and midfield - but seriously Max and Cal - Often Challenged - RARELY Beaten

[SuperDuper]

Was a max fan but Wilkie is better IMO

[SaintWiki]

Max and Callum damn good - I'm not into better/best, too many anomalies.

[Beno88]

Max still well ahead.

Played on the key forward every week in an era where far higher scores were kicked, and was rarely beaten.

Max was up against massive units like Lloyd, Franklin, Neitz, Brown, Tredrea, Hall, Richardson and Fevola - the latter three claiming he was the best full back they played against.

Add to that Max played in 12 finals and a Grand Final, conceding an average of just 1.3 goals per game.

Wilkie is fantastic and should be AA again, but he's a different player, and not quite at Max's level just yet.

Not sure why Penny is in the conversation?

[SinCitySainter]

They are different players.
Max was an undersized KPD rarely beaten but excellent when played on the Gorillas.
Penny was a true key Defender and again always played on the Gorillas.
Wilkie is more likely to end up on the medium forward and is more of an interceptor than either of the other two.

Max was the best KPD of the three, Wilkie is the best intercept defender.

[skeptic]

They are different players.
Max was an undersized KPD rarely beaten but excellent when played on the Gorillas.
Penny was a true key Defender and again always played on the Gorillas.
Wilkie is more likely to end up on the medium forward and is more of an interceptor than either of the other two.

Max was the best KPD of the three, Wilkie is the best intercept defender.

I’d say that is pretty well summed up.

All I can really add to it is that if there was an alternative universe we’re this version of Wilkie was able to slit into that 04-06 team and even the 08-11 one (though Max is less prominent in those later years)… we’re easily a multiple premiership team.
He takes over the roles of a Matt Maguire, Brett Voss, Raph Clarke etc… and maybe even taking on a the defence roles of a James Gwilt placing more emphasis on him being a leaner play maker effectively going alongside Sam Fisher as the tall defensive marker dishing off the ball to a play maker.

Never mind Hudghton being a player that was seldom beaten by his direct opponent… Wilkie by his side… there’s a good chance that Max is regarded as a player that rarely ever lost a contest

[SaintPav]

Unfortunately one of Max’s worst games was in the 2004 Preliminary Final

[spert]

I would have them in my team. Wilke is the most balanced of the three, and Max was very adaptable in his role- hard to beat, and reliable. Penny was a big loss when he went down to injury, as he could take on big forwards and do well- a more specific player role.

[D.B.Cooper]

Max was a very good player at his peak, I recall him negating Phil Matera who was a dynamic small forward as well as blanketing the big key forwards.

Although he came in when we were poor, he played in an era where key forwards kicked bigger bags but also had a far superior midfield winning the ball than Cal Wilkie.

Speed, athleticism, lateral movement: Max
Versatility of opponents: Max
Spoiling: Max
Intercepting: Cal
Disposal: Cal
Footy smarts: Cal
Courage: equal

I'd rate Cal slightly above Max as an all round player, as he is one of the smartest players I have seen.
Doesn't appear to have the size, strength, speed, athleticism, speed to match many of his opponents but he is rarely beaten.

Cal is also the best I have ever seen at nudging his opponent in the back and under the ball in a marking contest and getting away with it.
It's just enough to impact the opponent marking but not enough to be regularly penalized, genius!

Penny had a lot of promise but injury interrupted him being mentioned with the other two players.

[CURLY]

David Neitz used to get hold of Max for some reason. Max had a tremendous leap and closing speed chose to punch more than Wilkie.

[B.M]

I have Wilkie ahead of Max which is high praise

Twice Podium in the B&F and an AA

Max was neither

I think Wilkie has the record number of contests without losing!

He is a machine

Penny not in the same league as either

[cwrcyn]

As much as I was a massive fan of Hudghton, Wilkie is a smarter footballer with elite foot skills. Hudghton's ability to play on slippery small forwards was better, but that's not been a role assigned to Wilkie. Hudghton's kicking was mediocre at best.

Slightly different strengths, but if I had to choose, it would be Wilkie, primarily because of his elite kicking

[Sanctorum]

Max still well ahead.

Played on the key forward every week in an era where far higher scores were kicked, and was rarely beaten.

Max was up against massive units like Lloyd, Franklin, Neitz, Brown, Tredrea, Hall, Richardson and Fevola - the latter three claiming he was the best full back they played against.

Add to that Max played in 12 finals and a Grand Final, conceding an average of just 1.3 goals per game.

Wilkie is fantastic and should be AA again, but he's a different player, and not quite at Max's level just yet.

Not sure why Penny is in the conversation?

Moot points, Hudghton played more as a fullback, whereas Wilkie CHB, different roles. Max was more a stopper on opposition FFs whereas Callum intercepts and distributes the ball to the centres a lot more.

From what I remember of Max's days and what I see now I think Callum is much better at identifying and hitting targets.

Both great clubmen, lead from the front!

[StPeter]

All three are/were first class defenders but I would have Cal in front of Max for the reasons others have stated.

Unfortunately Penny's career cut short so we don't have the same body of work on which to judge him fairly.

[perfectionist]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

[ausfatcat]

Just makes me think of Penny, Hudghton, Maguire backline would have been handy in 09/10 if not for injuries

[D.B.Cooper]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

[Vortex]

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta

aka Saint Raymondo the Premature Evaluator!

[D.B.Cooper]

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta

aka Saint Raymondo the Premature Evaluator!

The 80YO premature evaluator

[SydneySainter]

David Neitz used to get hold of Max for some reason. Max had a tremendous leap and closing speed chose to punch more than Wilkie.

That was in 2006 from memory.

[SydneySainter]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

[SaintPav]

Zac usually played on the big key sized forwards that he was suited to playing on. Full back is a redundant position like most traditional positions.

[B.M]

Dawson was 198cm

Cleary a key back

And he was primarily defensive - therefore took the no1 deep key forward

We also had Jason Blake, Sam Fisher (star) and Gilbert

[CURLY]

Luke Penny was a full back in the traditional sense. He only played two and a half seasons with us. In his first two full seasons, he took 23 and 17 contested marks. In the same years Matt Maguire took 21 and 22 contested marks. Once Penny did his knee in 2005, missing the finals, Max eventually took his place at fullback. His contested mark figures per season from 2005 were 6, 11, 1, 4 and 2.

Callum Wilkie has the following contested mark figures per season 21, 12, 15, 21, 28 and 20 so far this year.

I am confident that had Penny never got injured our flag chances from 2005 onwards would have been better. He was still only 29 in 2010. The broken leg to Matt Maguire meant less support for Max, who really was just a good flanker. Both Geelong and Collingwood had players who could take contested marks on the backline in 2009 and 2010 which made all the difference.

I don't know how many contested marks Bob Murray took in his career at full back, but it was more than 20 in the years 1965 to 1970 - probably closer to 30. If he hadn't done so, we would have one less premiership than we current do.

In the last 3 seasons, Josh Battle's contested mark figures are 18, 23 and 17 so far this year. Hence, the interest from other clubs. Dougal Howard has never taken 20 in a season (19 in his last season with Port), and most of his years are 10 or less. Jimmy Webster has taken one this year, not unlike a number of his other years.

Callum Wilkie is by far the better player, between he and Max, both being the same height.

In that era we had AA gun interceptor Sam Fisher and also Sam Gilbert who was also a very good intercept defender despite being undersized for key positions.

Much maligned on this forum, particularly by keyboard warriors like saynta who demean him, , Zac Dawson was a reliable stopper and well respected team mate, playing on the key forwards.

Zac was a decent third tall and “team” defender, but was played out of position by Ross.

A fullback Zac was not!

Zac was a fullback