Rebuild 2025/2026

[B.M]

Go backwards to go forwards

Let Battle go for pick 6

Keep leaders
Steele
Marshall
Sinclair
Hill
Wilkie
Wood

Trade/Delist
Ross
Membrey
Crouch
Jones
Campbell
Howard (trade)
Webster
Allison

Go to the draft and take 5 picks
2 x first rounders
Not sure if we have a second rounder?


2025 team

Wilkie - Caminiti - Stocker
Nasiah - Schoenmaker - Clark

Hill - Phillipou - Wilson
Marshall - Steele - Sinclair

Wood - Owens - Henry
Higgins - King - Keeler

Int: Dow - Draft Pick - Butler - Windhager
Sub: Sharman

Emerg: Garcia - Draft Pick - Byrnes - Paton - Collard - Draft Pick

Keep
Hotton - Van Es - Heath - McLennan - Hall

[B.M]

Pick up another top 4 pick in 2025

[Brunswicksainter]

Go backwards to go forwards

Let Battle go for pick 6

Keep leaders
Steele
Marshall
Sinclair
Hill
Wilkie
Wood

Trade/Delist
Ross
Membrey
Crouch
Jones
Campbell
Howard (trade)
Webster
Allison

Go to the draft and take 5 picks
2 x first rounders
Not sure if we have a second rounder?


2025 team

Wilkie - Caminiti - Stocker
Nasiah - Schoenmaker - Clark

Hill - Phillipou - Wilson
Marshall - Steele - Sinclair

Wood - Owens - Henry
Higgins - King - Keeler

Int: Dow - Draft Pick - Butler - Windhager
Sub: Sharman

Emerg: Garcia - Draft Pick - Byrnes - Paton - Collard - Draft Pick

Keep
Hotton - Van Es - Heath - McLennan - Hall

We have GWS’ second rounder I think.

[Life Long Saint]

Trade/Delist
...
Crouch
...
Howard (trade)
Webster
...

We have very little depth in certain areas and you're advocating for trading three players who, almost always, win their position.
We have missed Crouch terribly this season. There is no way that we should delist or trade him. That is sheer lunacy. He is contracted for 2025.

Howard, despite some brain farts, is very rarely beaten as a key defender. Cordy is not up to it, Caminiti and Schoenmakers are still learning. Who are they going to learn from? What happens if one of them goes down?
Howard is very much a required player.
Surely the game against Brisbane showed what happens when we don't have quality key defenders. We conceded 19 goals...or did we all get caught up the fact that we kicked 16 that we overlooked that.
We can't win games of footy when we let opposition key forwards kick 10 goals between them.

Webster is still adding value and would not return much, if any, value on the trade table.

Battle is a player that I would be unhappy to lose. If he wants out, then that's another story...But if he wants to stay, then we should pay him so he is not tempted to move to the Hawks. Being an unrestricted free agent means that we have no ability to match the Hawks offer. Given that, we are not guaranteed to get an early first round pick at all.
We have no ready replacement for him and would miss his output.

[SteeleSaints]

How many rebuilds do we have to go through, we have been in rebuild mode since 2011 and still havent got it right. Pushing Battle out is not the answer, we need to keep players like him and build on them. Dalrymple is meant to be some recruiting mecca, so let him earn his keep whilst doing our best to remain competitive.

The club cant financially afford another rebuild, any traction they have with game attendance and memberships will go backwards at a rate of knots. St Kilda supporters are fed up with mediocrity the last thing they will digest is another bottom out rebuild.

[magnifisaint]

I agree with BM

[bobmurray]

How many rebuilds do we have to go through, we have been in rebuild mode since 2011 and still havent got it right. Pushing Battle out is not the answer, we need to keep players like him and build on them. Dalrymple is meant to be some recruiting mecca, so let him earn his keep whilst doing our best to remain competitive.

The club cant financially afford another rebuild, any traction they have with game attendance and memberships will go backwards at a rate of knots. St Kilda supporters are fed up with mediocrity the last thing they will digest is another bottom out rebuild.

We have been rebuilding since October 1966, for NO result.

[Killa]

At the risk of repetition, what we do require is support for Marshall, support for Howard and support for King

Are they on the List and being developed already noting Keeler, Heath, and Van Es?

Time will tell

In terms of the midfield do we deploy Sinclair, Wanganeen-Milera and a fit again Crouch?

Then Henry?

Noting we now have Schoenmaker to squeeze into the back 6 and that Clark is suited to a defensive 6 position

We trust we can add another Wilson or 2 to our List over the next season or 2

Plus we are getting more games into Windhager Phillipou and Owens as they work on their craft

Ditto Caminiti as they educate him

Then (finally) a fit King

And some luck with our key players in regard injuries noting absences from our spine this season

Given the closeness of the competition, that we have lost how many (6?) by less than a goal despite the setbacks it is my opinion that we are not that far off given what I have contributed here

And in terms of senior players approaching the end of their careers who have we got?

Hill, whose fitness will see him continue for a few years yet

It is also of note that Sandringham are in a position to play finals this year, so there must be some talent there at least

We compete with 18 other Clubs, certain of which are favoured by the ever changing rules of the competition - and the umpiring which we are told is the best it has ever been!!!!

Pigs fly

[SydneySainter]

We need to execute all reasonable endeavours we can to keep Battle.

Letting him go and hoping for a good compo pick is just another Goddard or Dal Santo situation waiting to happen.

He’s a fierce competitor and one of few on our list who actually gives me the impression that he has that fire in the belly to want to win each game he plays.

We also have a dire lack of quality talls as it is.

On a side note, this will now be our fourth rebuild since 2012. Is there any first round draft selection other than Clark on our list?

So many wasted picks…

[Jacks Back]

On a side note, this will now be our fourth rebuild since 2012. Is there any first round draft selection other than Clark on our list?

So many wasted picks…

What King wasn't first round? NWM? Pou? Wilson? Alright, not many but you normally only get one a year.

[SydneySainter]

Okay, fair point. But of the four you mentioned, three are from our last three draft years. Before that - Cripps, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Goddard, Gresham, Long and Coffield.

[Scollop]

Okay, fair point. But of the four you mentioned, three are from our last three draft years. Before that - Cripps, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Goddard, Gresham, Long and Coffield.

Interestingly... the guys we have recruited into the club like Mason Wood, Brad Hill and Call Wilkie, Jack Steele and Tim Membrey have been as influential on our young draftees as have the coaches and football department.

Without Brad Hill at the club, I think it would have been more difficult for a guy like Wanganeen-Millera and we all know how positive Mason Wood has been on his development as well.

Sadly...the senior players we had throughout the Richo era, including Roo and Joey did not seem to have a very positive influence on the guys you named

One of the qualities that I value in leaders is the ability to embrace young recruits and make them feel welcome (and most importantly -make them feel valued).

I think a large part of the reason we have a good culture which transforms into high performance standards is due to the character of our player leadership.

[Banger9798]

I'm assuming Hastie is also to be retained and pushing for first 23.

I think this is where we are heading, and this year is a controlled tank.; losing by narrow margins is what the football department are wanting.

Still think it's a mistake to let Battle go.
Would prefer to retain him and try to get Ainsworth as an FA this year and LDU next year.

[repta]

Our big issue is development. We can keep getting in draft picks but we have an appalling history of developing the talent. We are getting it wrong too often.
The players are talented. Draftees are talented and didn't get picked by luck. Players are followed for years interviewed and developed. It is not luck.
Once they are drafted the work needs to start again. It is a new level of crafting honing and polishing.
Bringing the best out of players is hard.
Playing is one side. Pressure of performing is another.

I am not sure where the saints are breaking down, but I know they are. The list of our failures is mounting.

[saintsRrising]

We have GWS’ second rounder I think.

No, the pick GWS traded to us was the Crow's Second Round Pick.

This year's draft selections for StKilda arer:
Round one pick
Round two pick (tied to Adelaide)
Round three pick (tied to Melbourne)

See https://www.afl.com.au/news/1066491/202 ... ower-slide

[B.M]

We haven’t rebuilt since the failure of 2012-2014 rebuild with Pelchen and Elshaugh.
A mini rebuild in 2017 (Pick 7 H.Clark & Pick 8 N.Coffield) and 2018 (Pick 4 Max King)
We restumped through 2019 trade period bringing in Hill, Howard, Ryder, Butler and had a sugar hit in 2020 winning a final
We made the finals last season with the list from the last decades drafts and trades, but reality is, we are a middling team

Our last real rebuild, when we bottomed right out and got high draft picks, got rid of dead wood and played kids. Was 2000-2003
Reiwoldt, Kosi, Ball, X Clarke, Dal Santo, Maguire, Montagna, Goddard, R Clarke, Fisher, Milne
We traded out quality albeit attitude issues (Hall and Everitt) but brought in leadership Hamill, Powell and Gehrig.
Added to young coreof Hayes, Hudghton, Baker, Blake
Kept Exp

Important in a rebuild
Keep leaders that drive standards
Get rid of any player falling short on attitude and standards
Have a core group of players to remain competitive
Do not play or have list cloggers, use them as depth
Bring in ELITE talent and give them opportunities
Use the reserves to develop talent also

[Otiman]

We are sitting on the fence of the rebuild right now. Need to commit all the way.

[spert]

Rebuilding means nothing- it's a word used to cover lack of success and give a window for being unsuccessful until something works properly. Clubs recruit various players all the time through whatever means, and coaches come and go as well as off field personnel. My concern is that we are not getting enough out of the players we have, individually and as a team, and in true Saints fashion, fall back on the old rebuilding chestnut when things are not going plan.

[Killa]

ALL Clubs recruit players who do not progress to AFL careers - most then returning to their home Club at State League level and others being recruited at that level following delisting

Those who do not progress to AFL careers include first round Draft picks

So St Kilda is no different to any other Club across the competition

And, contrary to not being able to develop start with Steele from GWS, Membrey from Sydney and then Wilkie, Sinclair and Marshall

To say St Kilda (alone) can not develop youth is a nonsense on both scores so developing and the only side which delists Drafted players

[Killa]

And just to add, the criteria was that when winning a premiership you then had to improve 10% to maintain your advantage because the other sides were targeting you

That meant either or both of promoting juniors and recruiting from other Clubs

There is always a turnover of players - the competition is based on this progression given participation in the Draft

So players come and players go

[Yorkeys]

Just checking.
We have a very good defence?
We have a fair forward line?
Our mids are appalling?
We have an AA quality ruckman?
Wilson has what it takes, Arie looks promising?
Garcia and Hastie show significant potential.
Caminiti injured, Max injured, Dougal and Crouch injured for most of the season. Membrey's form very poor for an extended period but understandably he was given a long time to come good, unfortunate in hindsight, and our attack suffered accordingly.
Other various setbacks along the way. Including Henry injured just as he hit top gear.
So a rebuild framing is arguably alarmist pessimism, perhaps?
Or is there another agenda or agendas at play.

[St Dave]

Rebuilding means nothing- it's a word used to cover lack of success and give a window for being unsuccessful until something works properly. Clubs recruit various players all the time through whatever means, and coaches come and go as well as off field personnel. My concern is that we are not getting enough out of the players we have, individually and as a team, and in true Saints fashion, fall back on the old rebuilding chestnut when things are not going plan.

I agree with your point around the saints not getting enough out of our own players.

On rebuilding though, I would argue that any club that isn't contending at the very top you should be in some stage of a rebuild. It might be towards the end with a little top up to like essendon are trying, or if might be a complete full like north are barely in the middle of, but the goal of any club shouldn't be to make up the mid table numbers. We have shown that the little top ups we have done over the last 8+ years have been for nothing, so maybe something bigger is needed. Especially before Tassie hoovers up all the good news talent

[meher baba]

Just checking.
We have a very good defence?
We have a fair forward line?
Our mids are appalling?
We have an AA quality ruckman?
Wilson has what it takes, Arie looks promising?
Garcia and Hastie show significant potential.
Caminiti injured, Max injured, Dougal and Crouch injured for most of the season. Membrey's form very poor for an extended period but understandably he was given a long time to come good, unfortunate in hindsight, and our attack suffered accordingly.
Other various setbacks along the way. Including Henry injured just as he hit top gear.
So a rebuild framing is arguably alarmist pessimism, perhaps?
Or is there another agenda or agendas at play.

I agree. Our list is considerably better than many will acknowledge. Injuries to crucial players at crucial times have really hurt us this year, and yet we have performed very well against some of the top teams in the comp.

Anyway, the thread is mistitled. I would hardly consider the departure of Ross, Membrey, Crouch, Jones, Campbell, Howard, Webster and Allison to represent a major cleanout. i reckon Ross, Membrey, Crouch and Webster are as likely as not to retire at the end of the season. Of these, Webster would probably be worth hanging onto if he doesn't retire. I'm pretty sure Campbell, Jones and Allison have already had their papers stamped.

That leaves Howard, who has been a pet hate of BM's for as long as I can recall. But why would the club want to get rid of him? I think it's extremely premature to believe that Caminiti and Schoenmaker are capable of managing giant opposition forwards. And, given that we have one of the best defences in the league, it would be crazy to waste a top 10 pick on bringing in a defender from another club.

The key to the future is somehow to get some better mids.

[spert]

If we want to be fairdinkum about going forward, we need to move on Steele, Ross, Crouch, Dow and Jones, and Lyon the coach who I past his use-by date. We need to put a younger midfield in there and just grin and bear it while they settle and mature. The Saints have never liked doing that, and instead have always gone quick fixes with players and coaches, resulting in no premiership for decades- it would be good to see the mould broken.

[D.B.Cooper]

Go backwards to go forwards

Let Battle go for pick 6

Keep leaders
Steele
Marshall
Sinclair
Hill
Wilkie
Wood

Trade/Delist
Ross
Membrey
Crouch
Jones
Campbell
Howard (trade)
Webster
Allison

Go to the draft and take 5 picks
2 x first rounders
Not sure if we have a second rounder?


2025 team

Wilkie - Caminiti - Stocker
Nasiah - Schoenmaker - Clark

Hill - Phillipou - Wilson
Marshall - Steele - Sinclair

Wood - Owens - Henry
Higgins - King - Keeler

Int: Dow - Draft Pick - Butler - Windhager
Sub: Sharman

Emerg: Garcia - Draft Pick - Byrnes - Paton - Collard - Draft Pick

Keep
Hotton - Van Es - Heath - McLennan - Hall

That's 9 changes which is not un St Kilda like, however we currently only have 3 live picks plus what you receive for Howard & Battle = 5.

Where do we get the other 4 picks/ players?
DFA?
Rookies?
Try and get multiple picks for a player?
Split a high pick?