Melbourne also lost 3 in a row

[older saint]

I am so glad I stick to my next day rule after a loss before getting on here as I would have talked some crap last night!

Lost 3 in a row - Brisbane in front at half time then injuries removed any chance of winning. Essendon just didn't turn up. last night smashed

I thought about what has changed in the period between half time in the Brisbane game and now to have such a drop off. Yes Hill and Ryder out didn't help, yes the postage stamp size ground doesn't suit, but to me a thing which is not so obvious is the loss of role players in Wood and McKenzie. Who would have thought these 2 could be so important?

They both were involved in so much selfless running on the wings which made the team better and allowed others to perform their role with more freedom. These 2 have been replaced by much more talented players in Clark and Billings however neither have the attributes which the side needs in the wing roles. They are different type players which has had a huge effect on structure.

We were told pre season Billings would be predominantly used half forward , yet he has had to go back to the wing. Clark was to get more mid time, yet has been wing, some mid and half back last night.

I would hate to be a forward the way the ball comes in - which is not the game plan from the coach it is the players not being able to act under pressure or trying to do things they are not capable of. The defence last night saved an obliteration, this on to me sits on the mids, wings, and high half forwards and attacking half backs.

Hardwick 2016 was in a position and Richmond after decades of coach killing held their nerve, Geelong with Thompson did also. Ratten in 3 weeks hasnt suddenly lost the ability to coach so do something completely un-Stkilda and retain him for another couple seasons.

Losses to Essendon and Port will cost us finals not losses to Brisbane and Sydney.

Make some tough calls at selection. Get those who will do the role needed in the position needed.
to me something like this perhaps ( not knowing about injuries and Sandy form)

B: Paton/Highmore, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Webster, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Crouch, Hill
HF: Billings, Membrey, Gresham
F:Butler, King, Sharman
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Ross

Int: Ryder, NWM, Windy, McKenzie

[Teflon]

I am so glad I stick to my next day rule after a loss before getting on here as I would have talked some crap last night!

Lost 3 in a row - Brisbane in front at half time then injuries removed any chance of winning. Essendon just didn't turn up. last night smashed

I thought about what has changed in the period between half time in the Brisbane game and now to have such a drop off. Yes Hill and Ryder out didn't help, yes the postage stamp size ground doesn't suit, but to me a thing which is not so obvious is the loss of role players in Wood and McKenzie. Who would have thought these 2 could be so important?

They both were involved in so much selfless running on the wings which made the team better and allowed others to perform their role with more freedom. These 2 have been replaced by much more talented players in Clark and Billings however neither have the attributes which the side needs in the wing roles. They are different type players which has had a huge effect on structure.

We were told pre season Billings would be predominantly used half forward , yet he has had to go back to the wing. Clark was to get more mid time, yet has been wing, some mid and half back last night.

I would hate to be a forward the way the ball comes in - which is not the game plan from the coach it is the players not being able to act under pressure or trying to do things they are not capable of. The defence last night saved an obliteration, this on to me sits on the mids, wings, and high half forwards and attacking half backs.

Hardwick 2016 was in a position and Richmond after decades of coach killing held their nerve, Geelong with Thompson did also. Ratten in 3 weeks hasnt suddenly lost the ability to coach so do something completely un-Stkilda and retain him for another couple seasons.

Losses to Essendon and Port will cost us finals not losses to Brisbane and Sydney.

Make some tough calls at selection. Get those who will do the role needed in the position needed.
to me something like this perhaps ( not knowing about injuries and Sandy form)

B: Paton/Highmore, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Webster, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Crouch, Hill
HF: Billings, Membrey, Gresham
F:Butler, King, Sharman
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Ross

Int: Ryder, NWM, Windy, McKenzie

That’s lovely and sounds so easy except it totally ignores THE WAY we are losing
Melbourne not blown off the park - we were finished qtr 1 last night
And please do not delude yourself we had Brisbanes measure - they were inaccurate in front of goal and shoulda belted us
We have not played a 4 quarter game all year - why????
Even our wins have come in bursts and we got Tigers/Freo when they were not at their best let’s be honest
Richmond yesterday would’ve pumped us by 100
Let’s stop sticking our head in the sand
We have no transition game plan - we’ve been bottom 4 in league for it all year
Our forward game plan consists of bomb it on Kings head - we are ruining him and not allowing a structure to be set up that plays to his strength
Did you see how Swans forwards constantly had space to lead up at the ball carrier??
Did you see Jones constantly turn it over or give away multiple free kicks?
Seb Ross - dinky 30 metre high passes
Billing’s creep out of the shadows in junk time??
We’ve got player issues for sure but there is zero system and it’s sad when Way e Carey starts noticing it..

[B.M]

Isn’t that their only 3 losses?

[older saint]

I am so glad I stick to my next day rule after a loss before getting on here as I would have talked some crap last night!

Lost 3 in a row - Brisbane in front at half time then injuries removed any chance of winning. Essendon just didn't turn up. last night smashed

I thought about what has changed in the period between half time in the Brisbane game and now to have such a drop off. Yes Hill and Ryder out didn't help, yes the postage stamp size ground doesn't suit, but to me a thing which is not so obvious is the loss of role players in Wood and McKenzie. Who would have thought these 2 could be so important?

They both were involved in so much selfless running on the wings which made the team better and allowed others to perform their role with more freedom. These 2 have been replaced by much more talented players in Clark and Billings however neither have the attributes which the side needs in the wing roles. They are different type players which has had a huge effect on structure.

We were told pre season Billings would be predominantly used half forward , yet he has had to go back to the wing. Clark was to get more mid time, yet has been wing, some mid and half back last night.

I would hate to be a forward the way the ball comes in - which is not the game plan from the coach it is the players not being able to act under pressure or trying to do things they are not capable of. The defence last night saved an obliteration, this on to me sits on the mids, wings, and high half forwards and attacking half backs.

Hardwick 2016 was in a position and Richmond after decades of coach killing held their nerve, Geelong with Thompson did also. Ratten in 3 weeks hasnt suddenly lost the ability to coach so do something completely un-Stkilda and retain him for another couple seasons.

Losses to Essendon and Port will cost us finals not losses to Brisbane and Sydney.

Make some tough calls at selection. Get those who will do the role needed in the position needed.
to me something like this perhaps ( not knowing about injuries and Sandy form)

B: Paton/Highmore, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Webster, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Crouch, Hill
HF: Billings, Membrey, Gresham
F:Butler, King, Sharman
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Ross

Int: Ryder, NWM, Windy, McKenzie

That’s lovely and sounds so easy except it totally ignores THE WAY we are losing
Melbourne not blown off the park - we were finished qtr 1 last night
And please do not delude yourself we had Brisbanes measure - they were inaccurate in front of goal and shoulda belted us
We have not played a 4 quarter game all year - why????
Even our wins have come in bursts and we got Tigers/Freo when they were not at their best let’s be honest
Richmond yesterday would’ve pumped us by 100
Let’s stop sticking our head in the sand
We have no transition game plan - we’ve been bottom 4 in league for it all year
Our forward game plan consists of bomb it on Kings head - we are ruining him and not allowing a structure to be set up that plays to his strength
Did you see how Swans forwards constantly had space to lead up at the ball carrier??
Did you see Jones constantly turn it over or give away multiple free kicks?
Seb Ross - dinky 30 metre high passes
Billing’s creep out of the shadows in junk time??
We’ve got player issues for sure but there is zero system and it’s sad when Way e Carey starts noticing it..

Brisbane game 5.6 to 3.6 at half time. Not bad kicking by them at that point. injuries were in 3rd qtr and 4th, where they kicked away and yes did spray it a lot. My point was at half time 2 goals up and same points kicked with full squads - and arguably should have been further ahead based on general play.
Hawthorn we played 4 qtrs . Agree otherwise , although how many teams do? even Geelong and Richmond yesterday had a shocked in there. I think you will find very few teams in todays footy play 4 good qtrs . Brisbane outplayed Melbourne in the first qtr Thursday. Its the ability to limit the damage.

Transition and delivery in to the forward line is a skill thing under pressure. Can have the best structure if players cant execute under pressure then it is useless . Small ground against a pressure team makes it worse.
Sydney are more skilled due to picks they have had and academy, including dodgy selections such as Blakey
No delusion here i decalred in 2011 i will never see a premiership in my lifetime having just watch the best decade of opportunity choked away, however I also remember the 80s going to games know we would lose with limited hop for the future, at least now i can see talent and hope for a period of finals . Perhaps i am wrong but would be boring here if we all said the same thing.

[saintkid]

Isn’t that their only 3 losses?

Exactly and coming off a premiership win the year before ffs.

When are some ever going to see things WITHOUT rose coloured glasses??

Last night we were deplorable and that's coming off a humiliating loss against Essendon the week before. That's the cold hard fact of how bad a number of players and the team in general again performed.

[Templar]

McKenzie on current form was definitely a big out.

[Vortex]

are we seriously comparing our bunch of bruise free kick chasing B and C grade players with Melbourne's list?

A win or two may be possible in the back half of the season but only if we can select players who can play AFL standard and are mentally invested.

[Sanctorum]

are we seriously comparing our bunch of bruise free kick chasing B and C grade players with Melbourne's list?

A win or two may be possible in the back half of the season but only if we can select players who can play AFL standard and are mentally invested.

Or all of the top 10 teams in the comp Vortex. It's interesting to analyse the performance of St Kilda this year and I have long considered that the 8-3 win/loss ratio at the half-way point of the season heralded a false dawn - the stats are damning, especially that the team has won just 26 of 60 quarters of football which includes 4/4 against North. There's no way the Saints can be considered finals prospects and I agree that rather than bad coaching, it is primarily due to the lack of elite quality on the list.

I've stated elsewhere on this forum that it is not justified to lay the blame on Brett Ratten, in fact you can mount an argument that under his direction the team has exceeded expectations. Furthermore, indicative of the poor quality of the list is the number of games played so far by the 3 teenage draft picks from 2021, quite extraordinary and unprecedented in St Kilda's history, maybe forever!

That is an indictment on the failure by the club in the crucial area of player development and it would not surprise me if first round draftees wish fervently that they won't end up at Moorabbin.

This occurred to me when comparing our most recent top 5 selection in Max King in 2018 to Melbourne's Luke Jackson the following year. Even taking into account that King was out in his first year with an ACL injury, he has so far played 52 games but has been totally overshadowed by Jackson who's got 43 games under his belt and is well and truly a star of the future - last Friday with Gawn missing, Jackson starred and rated 122 on Supercoach compared to 32 for King. OK, they played different roles, and Ratten excused King's lousy game last night on poor delivery of the ball into the forward 50, but watching King play I get the impression he has yet to learn the craft of a key forward, he looks lethargic, nervous and totally out of depth. He took 4 marks but a couple were on the wing, and I reckon they might have been better advised, given the opposition pressure in attack, to play him 1st or 2nd ruck, he can hardly do worse than at FF because he will compete 1/1 and not be in the glare of the media's spotlight and can build some confidence in his abilities. A total lack of imagination by the match committee!

So here we go again, yet another season that is slipping away fast. It is only a matter of time before the Board will be pressured to conduct a review of why the wheels have fallen off the bus yet again because the way things are panning out it will cost the club dearly in both membership and corporate support if there's no clear path to change direction.

I wonder if Martin Luther King Jr was a St Kilda supporter (see below)

[saintbob]

Yep, but who cares when youv won the flag last year!!!

[bangaulegend]

To put us in the same light as Melbourne is an embarrassment to Melbourne I only wish we had midfield like theirs.

[Sainter_Dad]

Melbourne also won 17 in a row

When next we win 17 in a row you can compare us to Melbourne

[bigcarl]

McKenzie on current form was definitely a big out.

Yes, he is an automatic in if fit. One of our best, most consistent and unsung players this season. Tough and quick and always gives 100 per cent effort. Very good player imo.

I sincerely hope it was injury that kept him out. If that’s not the case, some serious questions should be asked.

Also, why was Ryder “managed” and what does managed mean anyway?

Perhaps Ratts thought we’d be too tall with Sharman In the team? I know he is big on run, but I think he takes it to extremes at times at the expense of structure.

Any case, not sure Sharman is the answer to our forward structure woes. I’d prefer Marshall deep and King up the ground a bit. Or vice versa depending on circumstances.

Also, I wonder what Hill’s personal issue is. Hope it’s nothing serious. He’s been key in a lot of our wins this season.

[Teflon]

I am so glad I stick to my next day rule after a loss before getting on here as I would have talked some crap last night!

Lost 3 in a row - Brisbane in front at half time then injuries removed any chance of winning. Essendon just didn't turn up. last night smashed

I thought about what has changed in the period between half time in the Brisbane game and now to have such a drop off. Yes Hill and Ryder out didn't help, yes the postage stamp size ground doesn't suit, but to me a thing which is not so obvious is the loss of role players in Wood and McKenzie. Who would have thought these 2 could be so important?

They both were involved in so much selfless running on the wings which made the team better and allowed others to perform their role with more freedom. These 2 have been replaced by much more talented players in Clark and Billings however neither have the attributes which the side needs in the wing roles. They are different type players which has had a huge effect on structure.

We were told pre season Billings would be predominantly used half forward , yet he has had to go back to the wing. Clark was to get more mid time, yet has been wing, some mid and half back last night.

I would hate to be a forward the way the ball comes in - which is not the game plan from the coach it is the players not being able to act under pressure or trying to do things they are not capable of. The defence last night saved an obliteration, this on to me sits on the mids, wings, and high half forwards and attacking half backs.

Hardwick 2016 was in a position and Richmond after decades of coach killing held their nerve, Geelong with Thompson did also. Ratten in 3 weeks hasnt suddenly lost the ability to coach so do something completely un-Stkilda and retain him for another couple seasons.

Losses to Essendon and Port will cost us finals not losses to Brisbane and Sydney.

Make some tough calls at selection. Get those who will do the role needed in the position needed.
to me something like this perhaps ( not knowing about injuries and Sandy form)

B: Paton/Highmore, Howard, Wilkie
HB: Webster, Battle, Sinclair
C: Wood, Crouch, Hill
HF: Billings, Membrey, Gresham
F:Butler, King, Sharman
Foll: Marshall, Steele, Ross

Int: Ryder, NWM, Windy, McKenzie

That’s lovely and sounds so easy except it totally ignores THE WAY we are losing
Melbourne not blown off the park - we were finished qtr 1 last night
And please do not delude yourself we had Brisbanes measure - they were inaccurate in front of goal and shoulda belted us
We have not played a 4 quarter game all year - why????
Even our wins have come in bursts and we got Tigers/Freo when they were not at their best let’s be honest
Richmond yesterday would’ve pumped us by 100
Let’s stop sticking our head in the sand
We have no transition game plan - we’ve been bottom 4 in league for it all year
Our forward game plan consists of bomb it on Kings head - we are ruining him and not allowing a structure to be set up that plays to his strength
Did you see how Swans forwards constantly had space to lead up at the ball carrier??
Did you see Jones constantly turn it over or give away multiple free kicks?
Seb Ross - dinky 30 metre high passes
Billing’s creep out of the shadows in junk time??
We’ve got player issues for sure but there is zero system and it’s sad when Way e Carey starts noticing it..

Brisbane game 5.6 to 3.6 at half time. Not bad kicking by them at that point. injuries were in 3rd qtr and 4th, where they kicked away and yes did spray it a lot. My point was at half time 2 goals up and same points kicked with full squads - and arguably should have been further ahead based on general play.
Hawthorn we played 4 qtrs . Agree otherwise , although how many teams do? even Geelong and Richmond yesterday had a shocked in there. I think you will find very few teams in todays footy play 4 good qtrs . Brisbane outplayed Melbourne in the first qtr Thursday. Its the ability to limit the damage.

Transition and delivery in to the forward line is a skill thing under pressure. Can have the best structure if players cant execute under pressure then it is useless . Small ground against a pressure team makes it worse.
Sydney are more skilled due to picks they have had and academy, including dodgy selections such as Blakey
No delusion here i decalred in 2011 i will never see a premiership in my lifetime having just watch the best decade of opportunity choked away, however I also remember the 80s going to games know we would lose with limited hop for the future, at least now i can see talent and hope for a period of finals . Perhaps i am wrong but would be boring here if we all said the same thing.

Brisbane inside 50 counts and how about actually looking at the quality of those?????
And bombing into forward 50 is just players going off script??? If so that’s even worse for a senior coach
Hawks game I’ll give but let’s stop pretending top 4 sides get through by playing 1 good quarter of footy here and there
Appreciate you have a glass half full view
I take a practical lens after 3 years Ratten is Richo 2.0
No plan no structure except “bomb to small forwards”
Not up to it

[Teflon]

Isn’t that their only 3 losses?

Exactly and coming off a premiership win the year before ffs.

When are some ever going to see things WITHOUT rose coloured glasses??

Last night we were deplorable and that's coming off a humiliating loss against Essendon the week before. That's the cold hard fact of how bad a number of players and the team in general again performed.

Spot on
I just can’t believe some can’t see it for what it is
Game was over quarter time last night - after losing to a pathetic Bombers who Wet Toast beat?????
Embarrassing seriously
Cmon ffs demand the best
At least talk to Clarkson

[Wayne42]

Melbourne might have lost 3 in a row but we'll beat that this week. against Carlton.