Ross Lyon after today

[samoht]

The lowly Bulldogs managed 1 goal 4 behinds in the last quarter to our 2 goals straight .. and were finishing very strongly - and thus gave themselves every chance to win it - losing by just a few points at the end.

Whereas we finished with a whimper ... only managing 3 points in the last quarter of the GF, to Geelong's 3 goals 4 behinds!

Eade is/was clearly a better coach!
.

[plugger66]

The lowly Bulldogs managed 1 goal 4 behinds in the last quarter to our 2 goals straight .. and were finishing very strongly - and thus gave themselves every chance to win it - losing by just a few points at the end.

Whereas we finished with a whimper ... only managing 3 points in the last quarter of the GF, to Geelong's 3 goals 4 behinds!
.

Lowly bulldogs? What does that even mean. Yep its all about goal posts. Everytime something is countered you move them. Got those stats yet after all you said it as fact. And the point is what anyway? By the way didn't we get the last 2 goals. Maybe they finish strongly but only play a straight 25 minute quarter like Ammo seconds do.

[samoht]

Maybe they finish strongly but only play a straight 25 minute quarter like Ammo seconds do.

Using your logic, what would this make the saints in the GF then, Ammo 3rds ? .... zero goals 3 behinds to the Cats 3 goals 4 behinds.

[skeptic]

I think one of the challenges some of the forumites may find in this thread is that both Bunk and plugger are a little non-descript with exactly what their arguments are.

They spend so of the thread picking on bits of other forumites arguments, twisting words etc that they shift the actual argument and hence its hard to pin them down...
Bunk in particular reminds me of a previous poster that doesn't post here anymore who was notorious for ignoring aspects of a discussion that contraindicates their points, but mercilessly attack and ridiculing other aspects.

The last few pages of this thread are particularly interesting... Some forumites are giving examples, breaking down arguments etc and debating rather very well, whereas others repeat that they are right, abuse, twist words etc

[samoht]

I think one of the challenges some of the forumites may find in this thread is that both Bunk and plugger are a little non-descript with exactly what their arguments are.

They spend so of the thread picking on bits of other forumites arguments, twisting words etc that they shift the actual argument and hence its hard to pin them down...
Bunk in particular reminds me of a previous poster that doesn't post here anymore who was notorious for ignoring aspects of a discussion that contraindicates their points, but mercilessly attack and ridiculing other aspects.

The last few pages of this thread are particularly interesting... Some forumites are giving examples, breaking down arguments etc and debating rather very well, whereas others repeat that they are right, abuse, twist words etc

Here, here .. spot on, skeptic!

[dragit]

It's pretty simple Plugger

Eade is a terrific coach because of A, B & C

Lyon is a poor coach because of A, B & C

It just gets more embarrassing with every post samoht, but I gotta hand it you for sticking it out… you're a trooper mate, extinguishing logic at every turn.

[kosifantutti]

The Bulldogs ran the game out - whereas we stopped running.

They were 4 points up half way through the last quarter and lost by 7 points. If we'd stopped running earlier, we would have won by 15 goals.

[plugger66]

I think one of the challenges some of the forumites may find in this thread is that both Bunk and plugger are a little non-descript with exactly what their arguments are.

They spend so of the thread picking on bits of other forumites arguments, twisting words etc that they shift the actual argument and hence its hard to pin them down...
Bunk in particular reminds me of a previous poster that doesn't post here anymore who was notorious for ignoring aspects of a discussion that contraindicates their points, but mercilessly attack and ridiculing other aspects.

The last few pages of this thread are particularly interesting... Some forumites are giving examples, breaking down arguments etc and debating rather very well, whereas others repeat that they are right, abuse, twist words etc

That's rubbish Skeptic by a person with known bias as I also admit I have. Samolt is sayings thins that weren't true or cant be backed up and he is called out on it. He mentions we didn't run out the game and said inside 50's prove that but we don't see them. Then its the score at half time that proves he is right but when that is proven wrong its the three quarter time score and when I mention we kicked the last 2 goals against the WB its something else. None of which proves anything anyway. I have given my opinion many times on this. I am not arguing for the sake of it. I have made it know that I really rate RL as a coach when he coached our club. I could suggest the same with those who don't rate RL. They are nit picking and changing the goal posts all the time to try and prove something that suits them. Its funny that a person who doesn't rate RL only finds fault with those who do. Who would have thought that. Amazing.

[samoht]

The Bulldogs ran the game out - whereas we stopped running.

They were 4 points up half way through the last quarter and lost by 7 points. If we'd stopped running earlier, we would have won by 15 goals.

We just pipped them at the end ....
1 goal 4behinds - that's 5 shots at goal to them in the last quarter - to 2 goals straight - that's only 2 shots to us.

The Cats again ... 3 goals 4 behinds - that's 7 shots at goal in the last quarter to our 0 goals 3 behinds .... that's only 3 wayward shots to us.

[dragit]

The Bulldogs ran the game out - whereas we stopped running.

They were 4 points up half way through the last quarter and lost by 7 points. If we'd stopped running earlier, we would have won by 15 goals.

oh no

pesky facts again

[plugger66]

The Bulldogs ran the game out - whereas we stopped running.

They were 4 points up half way through the last quarter and lost by 7 points. If we'd stopped running earlier, we would have won by 15 goals.

We just pipped them at the end ....
1 goal 4behinds - that's 5 shots at goal to them in the last quarter - to 2 goals straight - that's only 2 shots to us.

The Cats again ... 3 goals 4 behinds - that's 7 shots at goal in the last quarter to our 0 goals 3 behinds .... that's only 3 wayward shots to us.

I will ask again what is your point anyway? How many goal posts can you move before you collapse with exhaustion?

[kosifantutti]

The Bulldogs ran the game out - whereas we stopped running.

They were 4 points up half way through the last quarter and lost by 7 points. If we'd stopped running earlier, we would have won by 15 goals.

We just pipped them at the end ....
1 goal 4behinds - that's 5 shots at goal to them in the last quarter - to 2 goals straight - that's only 2 shots to us.

The Cats again ... 3 goals 4 behinds - that's 7 shots at goal in the last quarter to our 0 goals 3 behinds .... that's only 3 wayward shots to us.

Teams that "run the game out" usually do a little better than one point in the last 15 minutes when the game is on the line.

[samoht]

Teams that "run the game out" usually do a little better than one point in the last 15 minutes when the game is on the line.

Doesn't the same apply to us vs Geelong? We had the whole last quarter to kick a goal and didn't.

At least the bulldogs kicked a goal and had 5 shots at goal to our 2 shots at goal in the last quarter.

[plugger66]

Teams that "run the game out" usually do a little better than one point in the last 15 minutes when the game is on the line.

Doesn't the same apply to us vs Geelong? We had a whole quarter to kick a goal and didn't.

At least the bulldogs kicked a goal and had 5 shots at goal to our 2 shots at goal in the last quarter.

Yep so what is your point and where are the stats on the inside 50'sor did you make that up?

[Bunk_Moreland]

I think one of the challenges some of the forumites may find in this thread is that both Bunk and plugger are a little non-descript with exactly what their arguments are.

Wrong. if you had bothered to read my posts it is quite simple.

1) Ross Lyon is a very good coach
2) Ross Lyon had plenty of flaws
3) Ross Lyon can be blamed for some reasons why we didn't win a flag
4) Ross Lyon cannot be blamed for poor kicking
5) Players are responsible for winning games more than coaches.
6) Coaches are responsible for preparing the team to win games

I could care if Lyon won a flag, in fact I hope he doesn't.

I think Lyon is a parasite who cant develop players and it was a dog act to leave our list in the state that he contributed to.

Have stated this on numerous occasion on this thread and over the years about Lyon, but I suppose it doesn't suit your strawman.

Bunk in particular reminds me of a previous poster that doesn't post here anymore who was notorious for ignoring aspects of a discussion that contraindicates their points, but mercilessly attack and ridiculing other aspects.

And what value does your reminisce bring to the thread

The last few pages of this thread are particularly interesting... Some forumites are giving examples, breaking down arguments etc and debating rather very well, whereas others repeat that they are right, abuse, twist words etc

Appreciate your support skeptic, and I think you are a bit hard on scollop and samoht but I suppose when your argument decends to calling others 'Lyon Lovers" and "knobjockeys", I suppose others will pick yup on that sort of abuse.

Well done for doing so.

[samoht]

Here are the stats that plugger requested...

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_m ... s?mid=4958

St Kilda Statistic Western Bulldogs
205 Kicks 219
173 Handballs 181
378 Disposals 400
1.18 Kick to Handball Ratio 1.21
102 Marks 96
64 Tackles 72
44 Hitouts 36
17 Frees For 17
17 Frees Against 17
9 Goals Kicked 7
6 Behinds Kicked 9
0 Rushed Behinds 2
15 Scoring Shots 18
60.0% Conversion 38.9%
42.00 Disposals Per Goal 57.14
25.20 Disps Per Scoring Shot 22.22
40 Inside 50s 57
2.67 In50s Per Scoring Shot 3.17
4.44 Inside 50s Per Goal 8.14
37.5% % In50s Score 28.1%
22.5% % In50s Goal 12.3%

--

[plugger66]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_m ... s?mid=4958

St Kilda Statistic Western Bulldogs
205 Kicks 219
173 Handballs 181
378 Disposals 400
1.18 Kick to Handball Ratio 1.21
102 Marks 96
64 Tackles 72
44 Hitouts 36
17 Frees For 17
17 Frees Against 17
9 Goals Kicked 7
6 Behinds Kicked 9
0 Rushed Behinds 2
15 Scoring Shots 18
60.0% Conversion 38.9%
42.00 Disposals Per Goal 57.14
25.20 Disps Per Scoring Shot 22.22
40 Inside 50s 57
2.67 In50s Per Scoring Shot 3.17
4.44 Inside 50s Per Goal 8.14
37.5% % In50s Score 28.1%
22.5% % In50s Goal 12.3%

--

Thanks for that. I have all those. I was hoping you could post stats to prove your statement below.

We had most of our F50's in the 1st half vs Geelong, then we stopped running in the second half, and the rest is history - whereas the Bulldogs had more inside 50's quarter after quarter. They were at us all game, and ran the game right out.


Could you post those stats please.

[Con Gorozidis]

So samoht makes a good point. We cant claim it was only poor kicking that cost us the 09 GF but then claim we won the Pre-lim purely on merit.

If the Dogs kick straight we never make the GF in the first place.

So if we won the pre-lim fair and square we also lost the GF fair and square.

People cant have it both ways.

[samoht]

Thanks for that. I have all those. I was hoping you could post stats to prove your statement below.

We had most of our F50's in the 1st half vs Geelong, then we stopped running in the second half, and the rest is history - whereas the Bulldogs had more inside 50's quarter after quarter. They were at us all game, and ran the game right out.


Could you post those stats please.

The Bulldogs had 5 scoring shots to our 2 in the last quarter - isn't that proof enough for you?
Eade extracted every ounce of effort from his less-talented list that day ..it was a huge team effort - whereas we were below our best and lucky that Riewoldt kicked 4 goals, got us out of jail.
How many scoring shots did we have in the last quarter vs Geelong and how many goals did we kick ?
- how many did Geelong have and how many goals did they kick in the last quarter?

[plugger66]

Thanks for that. I have all those. I was hoping you could post stats to prove your statement below.

We had most of our F50's in the 1st half vs Geelong, then we stopped running in the second half, and the rest is history - whereas the Bulldogs had more inside 50's quarter after quarter. They were at us all game, and ran the game right out.


Could you post those stats please.

The Bulldogs had 5 scoring shots to our 2 in the last quarter - isn't that proof enough for you?
Eade extracted every ounce of effort from his less-talented list that day ..it was a huge team effort - whereas we were below our best and lucky that Riewoldt kicked 4 goals, got us out of jail.

So you have decided to change what I said. If you said that in the first place we could have stopped about 30 posts. That call moving the goal posts. Still have no idea what your point is though. By the way why is Eade a terrific coach and by the way how would you rate RL if Eade is terrific and why. Looking forward to those answers if you have the time.

[dragit]

So samoht makes a good point. We cant claim it was only poor kicking that cost us the 09 GF but then claim we won the Pre-lim purely on merit.

No-one is saying that.

Let's get fair dinkum here - Samoht isn't making any good points - none. He is calling a Eade a terrific coach and Lyon an average one using a stat that says they both had more inside 50's in a game against a better side? WTF?

Luck plays a part in football, to all coaches…

[samoht]

So you have decided to change what I said. If you said that in the first place we could have stopped about 30 posts. That call moving the goal posts. Still have no idea what your point is though. By the way why is Eade a terrific coach and by the way how would you rate RL if Eade is terrific and why. Looking forward to those answers if you have the time.

I think all coaches are largely over-rated as you know ... but, if we were to credit Eade with getting the maximum effort and output out of his team that day - then he was terrific.

[plugger66]

So you have decided to change what I said. If you said that in the first place we could have stopped about 30 posts. That call moving the goal posts. Still have no idea what your point is though. By the way why is Eade a terrific coach and by the way how would you rate RL if Eade is terrific and why. Looking forward to those answers if you have the time.

I think all coaches are largely over-rated as you know ... but, if we were to credit Eade with getting the maximum effort and output out of his team that day - then he was terrific.

So know he is terrific on the day. Who cares. Im sure Primus was terrific on certain days. Was Eade a terrific coach or not and how do you rate RL and why and what is your point on the teams running out the game because that has gone completely over my head.

[markp]

'Terrific' is not on the debate table.

It's 'Good', 'Very Good', 'Great'.

Don't overcomplicate this.

[plugger66]

'Terrific' is not on the debate table.

It's 'Good', 'Very Good', 'Great'.

Don't overcomplicate this.

Got an opinions at all? You used to have some. Maybe someone else is using your nic.