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samoht wrote:
We were definitely in a decline under RL - we were a list in decline
So it's not really fair to make comparisons in declining years
This sums up the inverse logic well.
Have you had a look at the actual draw from Watters first year?
In 2012 we gained Lenny Hayes our best player.
In all seriousness, have a look at the games in 2012... We had a ripping draw, played most of the poor sides twice but only had one win against a side that finished in the 8.
Those 12 wins included - 7 against the bottom 4
Suns x2
Dogs x2
Demons x2
Blues x2
Giants
Bombers, lions
And the one win against a top 8 side - Sydney.
Pretty sure we'd have managed at least 12 wins if Ross had stayed,
...and how many wins did we have over bottom 4 teams in 2011?
Did you also take into account that we were in a decline year on year (and have been from 2009 - 2014)!
samoht wrote:
We were definitely in a decline under RL - we were a list in decline
So it's not really fair to make comparisons in declining years
This sums up the inverse logic well.
Have you had a look at the actual draw from Watters first year?
In 2012 we gained Lenny Hayes our best player.
In all seriousness, have a look at the games in 2012... We had a ripping draw, played most of the poor sides twice but only had one win against a side that finished in the 8.
Those 12 wins included - 7 against the bottom 4
Suns x2
Dogs x2
Demons x2
Blues x2
Giants
Bombers, lions
And the one win against a top 8 side - Sydney.
Pretty sure we'd have managed at least 12 wins if Ross had stayed,
...and how many wins did we have over bottom 4 teams in 2011?
Did you also take into account that we were in a decline year on year (and have been from 2009 - 2014)!
In a metaphoric sense, Lyon is a coach who likes a full tank of petrol, and when the petrol gets low, he gets out of the car walks away and buys a new car with a full tank- not interested in driving to the petrol station. I have no doubt Lyon knew the decline was coming and no intention of signing a new contract with us no matter what. Watters inherited the dregs of a failed premiership campaign consisting of mentally tired or disenchanted players, club officials who were not prepared to fully back the senior coach and allow him to get on with the job, plus others who were quick to undermine him, not a good situation to step into so he did well under those circumstances and I'm surprised he didn't just tell Pelchin and co to go jump..before he got the sack, but he is a quality guy and took it on the chin.
samoht wrote:Did you also take into account that Gwilt and Fisher missed 8 or 9 games each in 2012 and we also had lost Dawson to Freo?
That's 3 key backs!
Seriously, 2012 was probably the best draw we'll ever have. 7 of 12 wins against bottom 4 sides, one win against a top 8 side. We were rubbish, with a win/loss inflated by an unbelievable draw, not sure how you can seriously point to this season to denigrate Lyon.
I understand that you have made a statement about Watters arresting our decline and therefor was somehow a better coach than Lyon. It's okay to revisit a comment and retract it when you realise how ridiculous it was. We've all said silly things at times, I forgive you.
Remember, dragit, we were a team in decline.
How would RL - a defensive coach - have gone in 2012 with a Dawsonless backline and Gwilt and Fisher also out for a good part of the season? That's three key backmen - a decimated backline!
A team in decline, let's not forget.
I doubt he would have got more than 12 wins or better than 123% (given 12 1/2 wins in 2011).
I'm not saying SW is a better coach than RL - just that RL is not a magician - that he can't perform miracles with a team on the decline!
Last edited by samoht on Fri 19 Sep 2014 11:05am, edited 1 time in total.
dragit wrote:He didn't have Gwilt or hayes in 2011.
I forgive you.
Gwilt missed some games in 2011 - was he injured? - maybe he preferred Dawson in those games? But we still had Fisher (and Dawson).
Hayes also missed a lot of games in 2013.
Last edited by samoht on Fri 19 Sep 2014 11:13am, edited 3 times in total.
stinger wrote:gawd this thread has gone stale...boring as bat crap....
I was going to stop posting ages ago... and should have --- but BM and dragit (apt name) just kept misquoting/misinterpreting me! I had to defend myself.
stinger wrote:gawd this thread has gone stale...boring as bat crap....
I was going to stop posting ages ago... and should have --- but BM and dragit (apt name) just kept misquoting/misinterpreting me! I had to defend myself.
...been there...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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stinger wrote:gawd this thread has gone stale...boring as bat crap....
im sorry i started it.
i thought it would be around the future coaching merry go around (which is already underway)
instead it turned out to be re-hashing ancient history.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
I just don't get how these things stuff up the club anyway. If Waite isn't going well enough hhe plays in the seconds like about 16 other players do anyway and if he is going well he may help them get over the line. They haven't won a flag and we had won one in 140 years so going for it in anyway is surely worth the punt.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
I just don't get how these things stuff up the club anyway. If Waite isn't going well enough hhe plays in the seconds like about 16 other players do anyway and if he is going well he may help them get over the line. They haven't won a flag and we had won one in 140 years so going for it in anyway is surely worth the punt.
The problem is if someone like Waite plays most season in front of Tarbener then they miss out on important development & experience.
Like Polo ahead of Jack Steven.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
I just don't get how these things stuff up the club anyway. If Waite isn't going well enough hhe plays in the seconds like about 16 other players do anyway and if he is going well he may help them get over the line. They haven't won a flag and we had won one in 140 years so going for it in anyway is surely worth the punt.
The problem is if someone like Waite plays most season in front of Tarbener then they miss out on important development & experience.
Like Polo ahead of Jack Steven.
Waite will not play ahead on Tarbener if Tarbener is going well enough. Steven couldn't train properly during the week and that is why he didn't play when he certainly would have. Sylvia didn't get games ahead of young kids this year. Im sure RL has realised that if younger players can play their role then they get a game. naybe he actually stuffed up in the finals because he did play Tarbener who really struggled bigtime.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
I just don't get how these things stuff up the club anyway. If Waite isn't going well enough hhe plays in the seconds like about 16 other players do anyway and if he is going well he may help them get over the line. They haven't won a flag and we had won one in 140 years so going for it in anyway is surely worth the punt.
The problem is if someone like Waite plays most season in front of Tarbener then they miss out on important development & experience.
Like Polo ahead of Jack Steven.
Waite will not play ahead on Tarbener if Tarbener is going well enough. Steven couldn't train properly during the week and that is why he didn't play when he certainly would have. Sylvia didn't get games ahead of young kids this year. Im sure RL has realised that if younger players can play their role then they get a game. naybe he actually stuffed up in the finals because he did play Tarbener who really struggled bigtime.
Gamble > Lynch
At some point you have to get games into players who aren't going to show a lot until they pass 50 games, if you keep recruiting and playing average mature talent you get to where we are now. It also obviously reduced your chances of finding a player late in a draft. I guess the key is finding the right players, not just GOPs that run around in the 2's or are chronically injured which Waite has been.
Tarbener just got a rising star nom so he be doing something right.
If geelong or hawthorn land him people will say its a genius move, but if he goes to freo it will be called typical Lyon recycling, that's how it works yeah?
The should steer clear of Waite though, has Gumbleton written all over it.
I just don't get how these things stuff up the club anyway. If Waite isn't going well enough hhe plays in the seconds like about 16 other players do anyway and if he is going well he may help them get over the line. They haven't won a flag and we had won one in 140 years so going for it in anyway is surely worth the punt.
The problem is if someone like Waite plays most season in front of Tarbener then they miss out on important development & experience.
Like Polo ahead of Jack Steven.
Waite will not play ahead on Tarbener if Tarbener is going well enough. Steven couldn't train properly during the week and that is why he didn't play when he certainly would have. Sylvia didn't get games ahead of young kids this year. Im sure RL has realised that if younger players can play their role then they get a game. naybe he actually stuffed up in the finals because he did play Tarbener who really struggled bigtime.
Gamble > Lynch
At some point you have to get games into players who aren't going to show a lot until they pass 50 games, if you keep recruiting and playing average mature talent you get to where we are now. It also obviously reduced your chances of finding a player late in a draft. I guess the key is finding the right players, not just GOPs that run around in the 2's or are chronically injured which Waite has been.
Tarbener just got a rising star nom so he be doing something right.
And he played Tarbener. Lynch played 5 games in his last year at the Saints and 6 in his first year at Adelaide. He wasn't going well enough to get more games. Gamble was dropped on occasions. We had no depth because of poor recruiting and trading that started way before RL got there. We also had a crap list manager who paid way to much to to few which meant we had to get ordinary players from other sides or take the punt with our terrible recruiting. Anyway I don't but the 50 game thing, its years in the system.
I know hes just a kid but Taberner stunk it up something chronic in both finals.
Was easily worst on ground in both games. Juts looked miles off the pace - like hed stepped out of suburban footy. Looks shell shocked, uncoordinated, fumbly, timid and slow and unable to execute anything at all.
If we are going to re-use the logic in this thread… a lot of people on here will now think Hinkley is only a reasonable coach… his side choked again in the finals.
5.11 in the first half after being on top of the ladder for 3 months, the coach just can't get it done when it counts. Game plan must be flawed. Will never win a flag.
