Longer

[shrodes]

The reality is that we're desperately looking for one of our rucks to be clear No. 1 and what both Hickey and Longer have so far proved is that currently, neither are the answer.

Hickey's had a good chop out, done some nice things, but with the exception of the Giants game, has frequently been beaten by his opponent. Allegedly his strength is his work around ground, but I think that's a little overstated.

This is only Longer's third game, so he probably deserves a few more, but his strength is that he's allegedly a "bull" at the stoppages, but in his three senior matches so far, he's also been bested by all three of his opponents, so I think his hit out work is also a little overstated.

I really can't see either being a clear No. 1 solution moving forward.

Nailed it

Dead on. Longer was far from great last night. He was again a downright liability on occasion.

Some examples (can't remember exact time, but you may remember them):
- 1st qtr? Ball up just outside GCS goalsquare. Longer wins tap and taps down TOWARDS THEIR GOAL. GCS crumb, goal. Why on earth would you ever tap it to ground in the direction of the opposition goal?
- 2nd qtr? Savage long kick in to 50m mark. Longer fails to contest the ball at all and his opponent marks. They kick inside 50 and goal.

Both our ruckmen have deficiencies. Hickey's lack of defensive pressure on his opponent is his bugbear. Longer's lack of any capacity to effect the ball beyond stoppage is his.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

Need to try and trade Longer at the end of the season if possible.

However i doubt any club would be interested

Geelong for one would want him. Anyone with a football brain knows how good he is in the ruck.

Yeah I agree he's good in the ruck. But you can't just be good in the ruck is the problem.

I'm sure he has some improvement left in him as far defending his man, taking marks, tackling, kicking and winning the ball but the question is does he have enough? I don't think so.

Most teams would prefer someone like Nankervis who usually loses the hit outs but competes well enough and then does some damage around the ground and provides a target coming out of defence, currently Longer hasn't shown this ability. Hopefully he can.

[Spinner]

So if Longer dominates and our half forwards didn’t capitalise his ruck work doesn’t count? As a bloke that’s done a hell of a lot of mid field work Longer was instrumental in our win.

Exactly.

[satchmo]

[skeptic]

So if Longer dominates and our half forwards didn’t capitalise his ruck work doesn’t count? As a bloke that’s done a hell of a lot of mid field work Longer was instrumental in our win.

Exactly.

So from where I sit, we all agree that he didn’t do enough around the ground or generally impact the contest outside the stoppages..? Is that a fair enough statement.?

The debate seems to centre around how damaging his ruck work was. And in this category some people feel he was okay and others feel he was very good.

That seems to me to be this discussion in a nutshell.

Which brings me back to my original point in that neither Hickey nor Longer are good enough to assume the role completely.
We simply have to find a way to get Marshall into this team as a KPP ruck... and have him be supported pbly by Longer until the kid can assume FT ruck duties.

So for me, my decision is I’m ready to stamp Hickey’s papers and trade him off if I can.

And I reckon if Pierce is playing as well as suggested, give him a go... let’s see what he’s got

[Linton Lodger]

Longer has to stay in. Real presence in the hitouts and the mids are more confident with him there. As long as he at least negates the other ruckman around the ground he is well ahead of Hickey.

We play Melbourne next.

How will Longer go against Gorn?

He will need to be mean, hurt him. Don't care if he concedes free kicks early, snarl at him hit him hard and hurt him at every contest. That's how he'll need to play him.

Gawn is a great player, but his got a soft underbelly.

[Sainternist]

I'm not sure if Billy would be getting so much praise if we had fallen short in the end. He had 6 possessions. Did he help to set anything up with any of those kicks or hand passes? If not, 33 hit outs wasn't enough to beat his opponent. Sure, he lifted his work rate in the last quarter, but so did all of his teammates. I'm guessing he'll stay in the team since we got up for a win. Hickey may find himself in limbo again. To add to our list of growing problems, we have a rucking one to solve by next year.

[Trixilver]

Can we somehow genetically merge Longer and Hickey?

As long as we get the right end of the stick.



Or maybe just play them both.

[Joffa Burns]

Billy was good last night.
Hard at it and win some serious hit outs to advantage.

On the flip side Witts is not Nic Nat, so let's see how Billy goes against Gawn next week before we get too carried away.

As for Billy's trade value, I keep harping he is the perfect fit for GWS and they have plenty of midfield talent injured or not getting a game.

Billy for Setterfield?

[fugazi]

We have 2 poor Ruckmen....whats the point arguing over them?

[Gershwin]

The last goal from Gresham seemed like a set-play to me with Gresham sprinting to get to a position boundary side of the ball-up. All credit to Longer for getting the ball to him. Did others see that play the same as me?

[maverick]

I saw it the same Gershwin.
I thought he had a good day, no surprise our mids were on top.

[parkeysainter]

It was a set play. Billy and Gresh won the game with that play.

Stonecold would be happy!

[Sainter_Dad]

It was a set play. Billy and Gresh won the game with that play.

Stonecold would be happy!

Point conceded - but if the goal at the other end, where he did the same for the Suns player, was discounted, we would have already been in front!

[WellardSaint]

The last goal from Gresham seemed like a set-play to me with Gresham sprinting to get to a position boundary side of the ball-up. All credit to Longer for getting the ball to him. Did others see that play the same as me?

i watched it several times.
He ran to the exact spot to collect, at top speed, even before the ball-up.

So he expected it to be there.
Set play for sure.
Probably practiced in training heaps of times.

[saynta]

The last goal from Gresham seemed like a set-play to me with Gresham sprinting to get to a position boundary side of the ball-up. All credit to Longer for getting the ball to him. Did others see that play the same as me?

Yep

[Bernard Shakey]

I'm not sure if Billy would be getting so much praise if we had fallen short in the end. He had 6 possessions. Did he help to set anything up with any of those kicks or hand passes? If not, 33 hit outs wasn't enough to beat his opponent. Sure, he lifted his work rate in the last quarter, but so did all of his teammates. I'm guessing he'll stay in the team since we got up for a win. Hickey may find himself in limbo again. To add to our list of growing problems, we have a rucking one to solve by next year.

Lewie will be the man!

[parkeysainter]

It was a set play. Billy and Gresh won the game with that play.

Stonecold would be happy!

Point conceded - but if the goal at the other end, where he did the same for the Suns player, was discounted, we would have already been in front!

Billy currently holds the no 1 ruck spot now. We all have to live with it whether we like it or not.

[takeaway]

Yes, Billy should get a go at it now. Having said that, you have to feel for Hick playing for Sandringham today - if he was planning to play a good game to keep in the hunt for No.1, he had no hope with the weather conditions. Atrocious, especially for a ruckman.

[SaintPav]

The last goal from Gresham seemed like a set-play to me with Gresham sprinting to get to a position boundary side of the ball-up. All credit to Longer for getting the ball to him. Did others see that play the same as me?

Yep

Did it twice to, back to back in exactly the same way.

Incredible.

[SydneySainter]

It was a set play. Billy and Gresh won the game with that play.

Stonecold would be happy!

Point conceded - but if the goal at the other end, where he did the same for the Suns player, was discounted, we would have already been in front!

Billy currently holds the no 1 ruck spot now. We all have to live with it whether we like it or not.

I think most are fine with it, because it’s not as if Hickey has made the No. 1 ruck spot his own and he’s had ample time to do so.

That being said, let’s not pretend Billy is something he’s not, this so-called “bull” at the stoppages. Longer had some nice hits, some not-so nice ones, played a perfectly serviceable role in the ruck on Saturday but in the end, his opponent had more hit outs, more possessions and overall beat Longer.

[saintsRrising]

Neither Longer or Hickey are true No 1 Ruck material. Both are very much comprises in that both have flaws, and contrasting flaws in their gameplan.

Depending on the coach and gameplan you may prefer one over the other, but neither will ever be in anyone's dream team.

Longer having a passable game against one of the poorer rucks in the AFL is hardly a ringing endorsement. Let's see how he goes against against Gawn next game. Hopefully Billy's confidence will be on the rise so that he can give a good account of himself.

[saintsRrising]

Neither Longer or Hickey are true No 1 Ruck material. Both are very much comprises in that both have flaws, and contrasting flaws in their gameplan.

Depending on the coach and gameplan you may prefer one over the other, but neither will ever be in anyone's dream team.

Longer having a passable game against one of the poorer rucks in the AFL is hardly a ringing endorsement. Let's see how he goes against against Gawn next game. Hopefully Billy's confidence will be on the rise so that he can give a good account of himself.

[suss]

If there's one thing that footage proves it's that ruck statistics really are bloody meaningless.

[stevie]

Witts has had a good season and would be up high in their B and F.