Next Week

[BigMart]

Gilbert's been at the club for a decade
Delaney 3 years
Geary 8 years
Savage 3 years
Roberton 3 years
Montagna 14 years

Never played together... Seriously
We are clutching at straws indeed

I suppose if you look hard enough, you'll find an excuse!

Speaking of excuses
How the hell did the dogs win interstate against a top team with a young team?
With a back 6 at varying stages of development and still finding cohesion

[Johnny Member]

I'm afraid I can't accept this 'outcoached' copout.

I don't think the box had a great day in terms of Riewodlt going forward, and not going small in the forward line earlier.

And ckearly, the players weren't up for the challenge from the start.


But seriously, are we really blaming the coaching panel for an average bunch of players getting wallopped by West Coast in Perth, Adelaide in Adelaide and now Gold Coast?

Come off it.


How ignorant and naive do people need to be to think that a coaching panel can polish a turd?


We were very competitive against Port interstate and ran out of puff in the last quarter.

We were very competitive interstate against Hawthorn.

We beat Collingwood easily at the MCG.


I've said it many times, and I'll say it again - we have a very, very average list. Probably 2-3 players that would be considered decent enough to walk in to other teams.


We've beaten teams below us, around us, and even above us.


That's above expectation for the cattle we have. And well above expectation if we had have known that some of our best and most experienced cattle wouldn't have even been available currently.



I seriously don't know what the f*** people seriously thought we'd do this year?

[Johnny Member]

Gilbert's been at the club for a decade
Delaney 3 years
Geary 8 years
Savage 3 years
Roberton 3 years
Montagna 14 years

Never played together... Seriously
We are clutching at straws indeed

I suppose if you look hard enough, you'll find an excuse!

Speaking of excuses
How the hell did the dogs win interstate against a top team with a young team?
With a back 6 at varying stages of development and still finding cohesion

How many games have they played together though?


Come on BigMart, you've played footy. You know the difference between playing alongside guy for the 1st time, the 10th time and the 50th time. Its significant.

Even the Brian Lake's of the world openly state how hard it is to slot into a defence that you haven't played alongside. Throw 5 guys in together at once and there's absolutely no doubt or surprise that they're going to struggle.


Having said that, that's not why we got rolled on Saturday.

But it's absolutely why we're a bottom 4-6 team and will continue to be until our young guys play more footy together.

[SemperFidelis]

I'm more concerned about Tony's comment that we're not yet ready as a club.

I get that the team is still forming. I get that as a club we need more resourcing. And some more patience, notwithstanding 50 years of waiting (in my case,
45!).

I'm patient. That's the lot of a 70s born supporter. I'm just hoping there's nothing fundamental that we're missing (other than $), because so far as I see it we're trying very hard to rebuild this club from the ground up, and from the outside we've been showing at least some signs of succeeding.

[HitTheBoundary]

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again - we have a very, very average list.

Yep.

[SaintPav]

bulls***.

How average was our list last week?

[Johnny Member]

bulls***.

How average was our list last week?

Very average.

They're relying on a process, and a style of play.

When they're not all 100% switched on and doing what they're meant to do - it falls in a heap. There is no talent to turn things back in our favour.

There's no Bontempelli to get 14 touches in a quarter whilst a Liberatore gets 10 and 6 tackles.

There's no Dangerfield and Selwood to steady the ship.

Etc. Etc.



The talent we have has not emerged yet, and the remainder is either not good enough or currently sitting in the grandstands.



We won't be able to play 4 quarter footy for a full season until the bulk of the list has played 50-100 together. Its just the way it is.

And how good that footy is even when we can play it for 4 quarters for a full season - will depend on the talent. And right now, that will be nowhere near good enough to contend for the top 4.

[Jacks Back]

The stats probably don't bare this out but I thought 8cres, Minch and Gresham were the best in the first quarter when the experienced players were't holding up their end of the bargain (i.e. gifting them goals from Roo and Joey).

The more and sooner the younger brigade play together the better we will be.

[Johnny Member]

The stats probably don't bare this out but I thought 8cres, Minch and Gresham were the best in the first quarter when the experienced players were't holding up their end of the bargain (i.e. gifting them goals from Roo and Joey).

The more and sooner the younger brigade play together the better we will be.

No doubt they need to play together, but history shows that young players develop better and faster when they have old and mature players around them.

So you need the balance.


There's no way around it in my opinion - we need more talent and we need more games into the talent we have. Simple.

Problem is, that that takes time. We've just got to be patient and realistic about it.

[SaintPav]

bulls***.

How average was our list last week?

Very average.

They're relying on a process, and a style of play.

When they're not all 100% switched on and doing what they're meant to do - it falls in a heap. There is no talent to turn things back in our favour.

There's no Bontempelli to get 14 touches in a quarter whilst a Liberatore gets 10 and 6 tackles.

There's no Dangerfield and Selwood to steady the ship.

Etc. Etc.



The talent we have has not emerged yet, and the remainder is either not good enough or currently sitting in the grandstands.



We won't be able to play 4 quarter footy for a full season until the bulk of the list has played 50-100 together. Its just the way it is.

And how good that footy is even when we can play it for 4 quarters for a full season - will depend on the talent. And right now, that will be nowhere near good enough to contend for the top 4.

Ok but saying that we lack a few stars to pull us out of a hole is not the same as saying that we have an average list.

[Johnny Member]

bulls***.

How average was our list last week?

Very average.

They're relying on a process, and a style of play.

When they're not all 100% switched on and doing what they're meant to do - it falls in a heap. There is no talent to turn things back in our favour.

There's no Bontempelli to get 14 touches in a quarter whilst a Liberatore gets 10 and 6 tackles.

There's no Dangerfield and Selwood to steady the ship.

Etc. Etc.



The talent we have has not emerged yet, and the remainder is either not good enough or currently sitting in the grandstands.



We won't be able to play 4 quarter footy for a full season until the bulk of the list has played 50-100 together. Its just the way it is.

And how good that footy is even when we can play it for 4 quarters for a full season - will depend on the talent. And right now, that will be nowhere near good enough to contend for the top 4.

Ok but saying that we lack a few stars to pull us out of a hole is not the same as saying that we have an average list.

The guys from Geelong and Footscray I mentioned were just exmples.

Our list issues go far deeper than just needing 2 stars.


FWIW, I don't rate Geelongs list very highly, and feel that thryre being carried pretty much solely by Selwood and Dangerfield. Funnily enough, when these two dominate other guys like Guthrie and Duncan seem like stars. But when they're quiet - the Guthrie's of the world look very ordinary.

So merely having two stars doesn't make you a great list - it actually masks problems.


So we don't have a Selwood and a Dangerfield. But we also don't even have a Guthrie or a Duncan!

Let alone a Hawkins and a Harry Taylor and a Lonergan!


We are so far behind its just not funny.



We have limited experience in the midfield. Limited to minimal experience in the ruck. Minimal experience in the forward line. Loads of experience in defence.
No height or speed in defence.
Too much height in the forward line!
No height in the midfield. Limited speed in the midfield.


Our list is awful.



Now having said that, were young and Will get better, more experienced and gel more.

But until we recruit well, we won't get the height and pace that we need.

[samuraisaint]

I'm afraid I can't accept this 'outcoached' copout.

I don't think the box had a great day in terms of Riewodlt going forward, and not going small in the forward line earlier.

And ckearly, the players weren't up for the challenge from the start.


But seriously, are we really blaming the coaching panel for an average bunch of players getting wallopped by West Coast in Perth, Adelaide in Adelaide and now Gold Coast?

Come off it.


How ignorant and naive do people need to be to think that a coaching panel can polish a turd?


We were very competitive against Port interstate and ran out of puff in the last quarter.

We were very competitive interstate against Hawthorn.

We beat Collingwood easily at the MCG.


I've said it many times, and I'll say it again - we have a very, very average list. Probably 2-3 players that would be considered decent enough to walk in to other teams.


We've beaten teams below us, around us, and even above us.


That's above expectation for the cattle we have. And well above expectation if we had have known that some of our best and most experienced cattle wouldn't have even been available currently.



I seriously don't know what the f*** people seriously thought we'd do this year?

I thought we'd win 7 and finish 14th. But I couldn't forsee the fall from grace of Collingwoood and Fremantle which has enabled us to win a couple we might not've. We were always going to struggle with the backline the way it is; we didn't just want Carlisle, we desperately needed him to remain competitive. In my opinion the wins we had against Carlton and Geelong were absolutely meritorious without the experience of Dempster and Fisher, and against Gold Coast we didn't have Webster or Wright either just for good measure. On top of all of that Lee had to go forward because we lost our full forward half way through the first quarter!!! Apart from Finey I don't think I have read or heard this being reported in the footy media.
The club and us are just lucky that we face a VFL standard Essendon this side, who are likely to be further weakened without Leuenberger, Jamar, and Zaharakis, because it gives Fisher, Dempster and Webster another week to get right, and we will still get the win. The reserves had a ten goal win on the weekend (and it could have been 15 goals by all accounts), with Eli getting 33 possessions and Sinclair and McKenzie amongst the best. Hopefully they'll be rewarded with a call up.
I think where we sit right now in 13th on the ladder is about right, and it is next year we should move into the mid-tier on the ladder, not this year.

[saintspremiers]

We could give Hickey a week off and play Pierce and Holmesy also

[samuraisaint]

We could give Hickey a week off and play Pierce and Holmesy also

Pierce should come in to replace Paddy and that would give Hickey a chop out. I desperately want to beat Essendon this week. Keep Hickey in this week. Essendon's rucks will be severely tested through the injuries to Leuenberger and Jamar, and we can rotate the ruckmen through FF to replace Paddy.
I think Eli Templeton has earned a call up, and Sinclair too, to replace running players who's KPIs are down. The Bombers may be a key midfielder down if Zaharakis gets suspended so we could exploit that too.

[Goose is king]

[quote="samuraisaint"][quote="saintspremiers"]We could give Hickey a week off and play Pierce and Holmesy also[/quote]

Pierce should come in to replace Paddy and that would give Hickey a chop out. I desperately want to beat Essendon this week. Keep Hickey in this week. Essendon's rucks will be severely tested through the injuries to Leuenberger and Jamar, and we can rotate the ruckmen through FF to replace Paddy.
I think Eli Templeton has earned a call up, and Sinclair too, to replace running players who's KPIs are down. The Bombers may be a key midfielder down if Zaharakis gets suspended so we could exploit that too.[/quote]

He can't rest Hickey for a week, that's stupid. He's in my SuperCoach team

[The Fireman]

If i was at this game I would remain silent as the players ran out in protest of their totally inept performance on the gold coast.

[barneyboyz]

The problem we have is we don't know which players to dump after a smashing win. It's easy to do in hindsight but getting clearer now we need to at times swing the axe and rest some players who mentally can't keep doing it more than 2 or 3 weeks in a row. GWS did it well in previous years, and we have more depth now to do it IMO.
At the members night Richo said the players care a lot and sometimes too much and can over think situations and not react on gut instinct. It's a development issue.

Tony - am I on the money here??

The bye was only two weeks ago so you'd think all players (unless they were carrying niggles from last week) should have been relatively fresh.

All clubs conduct tests to measure energy levels of players throughout the week so if there were doubts on anyone the coaches should have acted or if it wasn't picked up then they need to reassess how/what is tested.

I think the key word which you don't hear much from tony74 is that we were 'outcoached'

Out coached, out worked and out played.

Every week roughly 50% of the competition is out coached, out worked and out played; especially when going interstate. The Geelong game may well have been a huge loss had it been played at Geelong and remembering that many a good side struggles with that trip and it's not even interstate! GC at Etihad this week might have been much different too.

I for one am thoroughly enjoying the trip, yes there's some low's but I see enough in the wins we've had this year to be very excited

Thanks Tony

[Scollop]

The bye was only two weeks ago so you'd think all players (unless they were carrying niggles from last week) should have been relatively fresh.

All clubs conduct tests to measure energy levels of players throughout the week so if there were doubts on anyone the coaches should have acted or if it wasn't picked up then they need to reassess how/what is tested.

I think the key word which you don't hear much from tony74 is that we were 'outcoached'

Out coached, out worked and out played.

Yeah sorry. My last sentence made it sound like I was just concentrating on Richo and his game day coaching but I was also alluding to the lead up and how Richo and his coaches might not have read the signs coming from some of our older players.

Some of our boys were not switched on from the start and imho that points to selection decisions that need to be made going forward. I believe the motivation and energy levels of some of our players would have been sky high leading up to the Geelong match (because of our recent history in finals) and we've seen it with the showdown and derby matches where those teams seem to be a bit flat the week following those clashes.

Maybe Richo didn't understand the emotional toll that clashes with Geelong have on some of our older blokes. Perhaps what seemed super critical to Richo and his coaches with the Gold Coast match may not have been personally as super critical to some of our older players. Maybe the message wasn't sold well enough or maybe it's just human nature that some games are more important for different reasons to different players.

The whole coaching team and their the sports science staff need to learn from our away games this year and conduct better tests to ascertain players energy levels and motivation. We rest and manage the younger players because of their physical immaturity and I think we should also manage our older players so that they can perform at their best in every match that they turn up to.