Caro's Arrow...

[saintsRrising]

I hated HOW Lyon left.

Does not alter my opinion of his coaching ability though.

Being a prick does not prevent someone from being good at playing or coaching.

And indeed....I do not think their are many "nice" coaches about, and certainly not good coaches. Jeans was very much the exception.

Everyone says Timmy was a nice guy when he coached us. Maybe he should coach us again>

[desertsaint]

7.7 to 7.1 at halftime. Blown then and there by the players not the coach.

we led, and we extended that lead.
We blew it in the last. The Raph matchup, the non free to Schneider, the toe poke, but most of all - Ball on the bench!

[joffaboy]

7.7 to 7.1 at halftime. Blown then and there by the players not the coach.

we led, and we extended that lead.

But just think if we led by three goals and extended that lead to 5 in qtr 3, there would have been no catching us, even Ball wouldn't have been able to stuff it up.

[BigMart]

Not sure Ball was at fault

The GOPs disguised as role players playing in the fwd half and not capitalising on midfield dominance (which Ball was a part of) was the reason we weren't further ahead. Not just the missed goals, it was the lack of, considering we were all over them...

[joffaboy]

Not sure Ball was at fault

The GOPs disguised as role players playing in the fwd half and not capitalising on midfield dominance (which Ball was a part of) was the reason we weren't further ahead. Not just the missed goals, it was the lack of, considering we were all over them...

Scoreboard and many gimme goals wasted suggest otherwise.

Forwards are supposed to kick goals. You kick more goals than the opposition and you win the game. We kicked less and missed many many easy shots.

Simple as that really.

Nothing else really matters when it comes to scoring enough goals to win a match.

[BigMart]

Over the two grand finals

Why was Sean Dempster (off a knee mid-season) playing HF

Why was Robert Eddy playing HF

Why was Andrew McQualter playing forward in 2010

Why, why, why??

Make s no difference....

Big question, why should the members have to put up with a disgusting decision like losing Luke Ball without any compensation for the clubs future.... Why would a pig headed coach put his stubborn arrogance ahead of the club?

Luke had made his mind up, at least get the club something in return..... Would we be so concerned if we got a Newnes or Webster for Ball??

[satchmo]

Luke had made his mind up, at least get the club something in return.....

Rubbish. He did a deal with collingwood while a St Kilda player, and that effectively screwed the club "that he loved' and 'didn't want to leave'. Malthouse had already boasted that they wouldn't trade a good player, so our only hope to get something decent was the threat that another club might pick him up. I wonder if connolly has ever owned a lexus?

[BigMart]

Farken Rubbish

How could have done a deal with Collingwood?

He went into the National draft.... Any club could have selected him?? Melbourne were very close to selecting him.... You are not actually allowed to draft tamper, as Adelaide and Tippett found out?

He had just made a decision that he wanted to leave.... Collingwood wanted him..... We turned down their offer to say Stuff You ..... And they got him anyway, giving nothing to us in the process.... Hmmm, wonder who won that bit of trading mastery??

And some obviously stupid members, bought the dribble trotted out as an excuse.... And then defended it?

Seriously, if the current day admin or coach told some members the sky had tuned green, they wouldn't even open the curtains to check...... Some of the spin they buy is extraordinary

[skeptic]

it's amazing that ppl believe that isn't it Marto?

U read it Mission's book, they didn't believe his spread was good enough or that he had the work rate to train as hard as he needed to to get it... they then treated him poorly, gave him every indication that he wasn't wanted for the future... evident by the fact that they let him go and the supporters blame Luke for wanting to get out

AMAZING

[BigMart]

I would have walked out the door.... Middle finger pointed north and facing the office of Ross Lyon. And with I would have shown my premiership medal to Ross and let him know about... But that's me, I'm an a-hole

Ball, all class and his reaction to the 2010 GF win made the loss even harder to swallow.....

People who don't believe both Ball and BJ didn't love StK are deluding themselves.... Yes they left, and rightfully so... But were they happy with leaving their mates.... Be honest?...

[saintsRrising]

Ball was on the outer no doubt. However his form was not good either relative to is desired contract.

However BigMart you have obviously forgotten that Ball's manager found a loophole that allowed them to rort the system. They front ended Ball's contract for the first 2 years so that other clubs to match would have to pay over the odds. Only the Pies got the benefit of a cheaper last year.

That plus refusing to do medicals with any club bar the pies meant no other club would touch him.

Lyon and Ball both left the Saints by dubious means.

That Ball and Lyon did not get on was well known by insiders. Coaches and players fall out regularly.
Hall GT
Stewart Jeans
etc etc

[plugger66]

I would have walked out the door.... Middle finger pointed north and facing the office of Ross Lyon. And with I would have shown my premiership medal to Ross and let him know about... But that's me, I'm an a-hole

Ball, all class and his reaction to the 2010 GF win made the loss even harder to swallow.....

People who don't believe both Ball and BJ didn't love StK are deluding themselves.... Yes they left, and rightfully so... But were they happy with leaving their mates.... Be honest?...

Agree with the last part of the first paragraph.

[Mr Magic]

I just realized how much I miss The Fox Report.
BigMart just doesn't have the same oomph as Roger when it comes to bagging out the Club.
Maybe it's time for Roger to lift the veil and resume his place on here?

Pretty confident he is contributing to this thread...

Yes,
Maybe he could rename it to 'The Member's Perspective'?

[joffaboy]

Wow - some people really need to build a bridge

[Mr Magic]

Wow - some people really need to build a bridge

Thanks for the advice.
IIRC you're also the poster that has had multiple 'shots' at other posters who have publicly declared they are leaving the forum only to return at a later date with their original poster name (or another).
If I'm mistaken and it isn't you please accept my apology for thinking it was.

[joffaboy]

Wow - some people really need to build a bridge

Thanks for the advice.
IIRC you're also the poster that has had multiple 'shots' at other posters who have publicly declared they are leaving the forum only to return at a later date with their original poster name (or another).
If I'm mistaken and it isn't you please accept my apology for thinking it was.

Huh? Dont know what you mean MM.

Anyway my post you have quoted wasn't directed toward you.

Just reading back I can see how you thought it might have been. Directed at people still carrying on about Luke Ball. I mean really we all know what happened, they need to let go.

[Richter]

Big question, why should the members have to put up with a disgusting decision like losing Luke Ball without any compensation for the clubs future.... Why would a pig headed coach put his stubborn arrogance ahead of the club?

Luke had made his mind up, at least get the club something in return..... Would we be so concerned if we got a Newnes or Webster for Ball??

Yep. Unfortunately Ball turned in to a GOP in his mid-twenties. I didn't disagree with letting him go after 2009 because I thought that he didn't deserve the sort of pay that would have seen him earn at the same level as Lenny, Dal, Joey, BJ when he was no longer producing at that level. Presumably RL saw it that way too as he was dropped during the season.

Collingwood offered us pick 30, which is basically a GOP pick. I was baffled as to why we didn't take that.

[Mr Magic]

Wow - some people really need to build a bridge

Thanks for the advice.
IIRC you're also the poster that has had multiple 'shots' at other posters who have publicly declared they are leaving the forum only to return at a later date with their original poster name (or another).
If I'm mistaken and it isn't you please accept my apology for thinking it was.

Huh? Dont know what you mean MM.

Anyway my post you have quoted wasn't directed toward you.

Just reading back I can see how you thought it might have been. Directed at people still carrying on about Luke Ball. I mean really we all know what happened, they need to let go.

My apologies - mistook it as aimed at me.

Couldn't agree more with you re the Ball saga.
Greater/better players than him have left our Club for all sorts of reasons (including not getting on with the coach) and we've survived.

IMHO Luke Ball showed how much he 'loved' our Club in his actions - not by going but by insisting (like Judd did for WCE) on the Saints being fairly compensated for his departure.
To try and portray his departure and BJ's departure as similar is, again IMHO, just disingenuous. BJ (or his management and/or family) never conspired with Essendon to 'screw us over'.
Can the same be said about Luke Ball?

As for Max, he obviously was very disappointed when the Saints coaching and fitness staff chose to believe he was too big a risk of breaking down in the GF to be selected and chose to move on. Unfortunately for us Collingwood being the professionals that they were saw an opportunity and snapped him up for his inside knowledge. I have absolutely no doubt that the information Max passed on to them was enough to effect the result of the drawn GF.

[joffaboy]

Collingwood offered us pick 30, which is basically a GOP pick. I was baffled as to why we didn't take that.

This was the most baffling thing. A second round dp is better than nothing.

I think at the time I said it would only be a list clogger, but I am probably wrong on that count, however judging on the recruiting at the time I had a case.

My biggest beef was the seemingly tactical move of the Saints to try and placate their fans by immediately selecting Nicholas Winmar at #31 to try and deflect from the fact Collingwood just picked Ball @ #30.

As we all now know Winmar was never going to make it.

He was a true list clogger. and selected at a time of disaster recruiting by the Saints.

[markp]

Collingwood offered us pick 30, which is basically a GOP pick. I was baffled as to why we didn't take that.

Maybe because it was a blatant corrupt stitch-up and abuse of the system that stank to high heaven (which the afl effectively ignored/sanctioned) and it was our way of telling them all to go fk themselves.

[rodgerfox]

Bring back GT.

[Mr Magic]

Bring back GT.

Hellelujah!

[elvis lives]

Big question, why should the members have to put up with a disgusting decision like losing Luke Ball without any compensation for the clubs future.... Why would a pig headed coach put his stubborn arrogance ahead of the club?

Luke had made his mind up, at least get the club something in return..... Would we be so concerned if we got a Newnes or Webster for Ball??

Yep. Unfortunately Ball turned in to a GOP in his mid-twenties. I didn't disagree with letting him go after 2009 because I thought that he didn't deserve the sort of pay that would have seen him earn at the same level as Lenny, Dal, Joey, BJ when he was no longer producing at that level. Presumably RL saw it that way too as he was dropped during the season.

Collingwood offered us pick 30, which is basically a GOP pick. I was baffled as to why we didn't take that.

we didn't take that because Lyon's opion of ball changed overnight at, or just before, the commencement of the trade period. Prior to that Lyon considered him barely good enough to be in the 22. During the trade period though, all of a suddent he was "first round draft pick, all australian, club captain" I disitinctly remember laughing when I heard Lyon lauding Balls magnificant career. He may have been fooling himself, but he certainly wasn't fooling other clubs.

[Mr Magic]

Well why were Collingwood reportedly prepared to offer their first pick (#16 I think) for Ball until Ball's manager came along with another player, Jolly, to use that pick on?

IIRC Saints wanted Andrejs Everitt from the WB and were told that the WB needed a pick in the top 25 to get the deal done.
Saints told Collingwood they needed a pick in the top 25 (to ontrade to WB for Everitt) to get the Ball deal done.
Collingwood offered some players (Wellingham?) to NM for their pick 22 to use as an ontrade to Saints for Ball.
NM did not want any of the players Collingwood put up for their pick.
Saints wanted Everitt. WB wouldn't budge on their requirement of a pick in the top 25.
Saints told Collingwood they would take a player who was the equivalent of Everitt to get the deal done.
Saints and Collingwood couldn't agree on that player.

Then Ball, his management and Collingwood conspired to tamper with the draft and thus enable him to fall to pick 30.

[SainterK]

Bring back GT.

Haven't we?

In some capacity anyways.

Luke also trained in the pies high altitude rooms while still on out list so confident he was of going.

I loved Luke as a player, but have always said he liked the red carpet being rolled out.

Pick 30 though, we'd have probably bungled it anyhow.