For the good of the club

[Superboot]

The problem with rape cases is that, unless the charges are withdrawn, the verdict is either guilty or (effectively) not proven.

Either way, this will always be with Milne.

[Johnny Member]

Excuse my ignorance, but.....

Does being 'charged' mean the police think you did it?

Or simply that there is not enough evidence to categorically say that you didn't do it?


To me, this is important in the context of him representing the club.

[borderbarry]

T he July date will be for a preliminary hearing where a magistrate will determine if there is sufficient evidence to justify a trial. The actual trial will probably be next year.

[Eastern]

Excuse my ignorance, but.....

Does being 'charged' mean the police think you did it?

Or simply that there is not enough evidence to categorically say that you didn't do it?


To me, this is important in the context of him representing the club.

My take;

Being charged means there is a "Likelihood" of a conviction. It doesn't say if that "Likelihood" is 1% or 100%. That is a matter to be decided at a committal hearing, in this case on 5 July !!

[skeptic]

Excuse my ignorance, but.....

Does being 'charged' mean the police think you did it?

Or simply that there is not enough evidence to categorically say that you didn't do it?


To me, this is important in the context of him representing the club.

I'll give this a go too

Given that there is an accussed already, I think it means that there's enough evidence that you may have done it

[joffaboy]

Well if the club has given approval to play it will not be locked in to Milney playing the rest of the season.

If they stood him down until the committal hearing on July 5th and there was enough evidence to go to trial, they couldn't reinstat him until the trial.

This way he can play on until the decision on July 5th, and they can re-assess their decision then.

Pretty sensible IMHO.

[SaintPav]

Well if the club has given approval to play it will not be locked in to Milney playing the rest of the season.

If they stood him down until the committal hearing on July 5th and there was enough evidence to go to trial, they couldn't reinstat him until the trial.

This way he can play on until the decision on July 5th, and they can re-assess their decision then.

Pretty sensible IMHO.

I think it might only be a mention hearing on 5 July where they list the charges and provide a date for the committal hearing.

[The Craw]

If they stood him down until the committal hearing on July 5th and there was enough evidence to go to trial, they couldn't reinstat him until the trial.

This way he can play on until the decision on July 5th, and they can re-assess their decision then.

Pretty sensible IMHO.

Agree 100%.

[ShanghaiSaint]

Excuse my ignorance, but.....

Does being 'charged' mean the police think you did it?

Or simply that there is not enough evidence to categorically say that you didn't do it?


To me, this is important in the context of him representing the club.

For me, means they have enough evidence to convince them of possible guilt. Enough to move to trial with. Lovett got off so don't know what that exactly means these days.

[Johnny Member]

I don't buy the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing.

That's a law. It's not the way I sum up my opinions on things in general life. The law says that I can't cross the road when the little man is red, but I still do when I decide it's in my interests to do so.


Just because the law says he is 'innocent' until proven guilty, doesn't mean my thoughts towards him are the same as they are towards someone who hasn't been charged with 4 counts of rape.


Having said that, it also doesn't mean I think he is guilty and that my thoughts towards him are the same as someone who is actually guilty of 4 counts of rape.


But I can't barrack for the Saints as hard and deeply as I usually do while there's a dude playing that might be guilty of 4 counts of rape playing.


I mean what happens if Milne kicks the first goal? Does the crowd go beserk and think 'good on him, he really stuck it up everyone'? I can't wish a bloke all the best a be 'proud' of someone who might be guilty of rape.

I know he isn't guilty of anything yet, but the fact senior experienced detectives think he is - casts enough doubt in my mind to generate any excitement either way about him as a footballer until the truth comes out.

[matrix]

the law doesnt say innocent until proven guilty

it says presumed innocent until proven guilty

[Johnny Member]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

[matrix]

i was commenting on youre opinion that 'it was law'

when thats not really how its worded
no one is innocent until proven guilty
its presumed innocence

i dont presume anything about the situation is it does not effect me
i wasnt there the night in question so really dont care whether he is guilty or not

im actually over it already
this will drag on for the next god knows how many months........

[Dis Believer]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

Well lucky that no-one was stood down over the Duthie girl then.......

[Johnny Member]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

Well lucky that no-one was stood down over the Duthie girl then.......

No, that was different. Utterly different. There was no investigation, no evidence, no nothing - just the press circulating scuttlebutt and scandal.

That was nothing more than a media circus. There was never a case to answer.

[Johnny Member]

i was commenting on youre opinion that 'it was law'

when thats not really how its worded
no one is innocent until proven guilty
its presumed innocence

i dont presume anything about the situation is it does not effect me
i wasnt there the night in question so really dont care whether he is guilty or not

im actually over it already
this will drag on for the next god knows how many months........

Fair enough.

Each to their own.

[Dis Believer]

No, that was different. Utterly different. There was no investigation, no evidence, no nothing - just the press circulating scuttlebutt and scandal.

That was nothing more than a media circus. There was never a case to answer.

They were pretty shocking allegations, pregnancies, underage schoolgirls, etc.

Did you cheer less passionately then??

[SaintPav]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

It's not the Police's role to assess guilt or inocence and it's irrelevant what they think.

[Johnny Member]

No, that was different. Utterly different. There was no investigation, no evidence, no nothing - just the press circulating scuttlebutt and scandal.

That was nothing more than a media circus. There was never a case to answer.

They were pretty shocking allegations, pregnancies, underage schoolgirls, etc.

Did you cheer less passionately then??

Pregnancy is not a crime, or even morally wrong. It's a mistake at worst.

The underage thing was denied and never investigated beyond that. From memory, by the time the press got hold of it the players had already been cleared by the school and the club anyway.

[Johnny Member]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

It's not the Police's role to assess guilt or inocence and it's irrelevant what they think.

So how does a 'charge' occur? Someone has to think they're guilty.


And I don't mean 'think they're guilty' on a personal level, I mean on a professional level.

[markp]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

It's not the Police's role to assess guilt or inocence and it's irrelevant what they think.

So how does a 'charge' occur? Someone has to think they're guilty.


And I don't mean 'think they're guilty' on a personal level, I mean on a professional level.

Don't think so.

I think it means there's enough evidence to suggest the person may be found guilty and therefore has a case to answer and worth pursuing.

As in a case wouldn't be a waste of time and money for the state.

Would be interesting to see rates of people charged vs rates of found guilty though.

[stinger]

T he July date will be for a preliminary hearing where a magistrate will determine if there is sufficient evidence to justify a trial. The actual trial will probably be next year.

first mention will be for list management......then a date for a committal hearing...any trial will be as you say...next year......

[matrix]

T he July date will be for a preliminary hearing where a magistrate will determine if there is sufficient evidence to justify a trial. The actual trial will probably be next year.

first mention will be for list management......then a date for a committal hearing...any trial will be as you say...next year......

the trial will be next year?
well thats him done then

if they dont want him to play now while this is going on he certainly isnt going to get a gig next year when a trial starts at the start of the 2014 season

gawn

[SainterK]

He may not realise it yet, but it's for his own good.

Take some time out to deal with it, make sure his family is dealing with it, prepare himself for a significant period in his life best he can

[stinger]

I don't presume he's innocent though. I know the 'law' does, but I don't.

I presume that a woman and the police think he's guilty, and that he thinks he's innocent.


I can't cheer passionately for and wish glory upon a person or club in this situation. I can't dislike or judge them passionately either.

It's not the Police's role to assess guilt or inocence and it's irrelevant what they think.

correct......and then it's up to a magistrate...not a judge as some clown suggested ..to determine after examining the prosecutions case..whether or not there is sufficient evidence to commit someone for trial....then it is up to a jury...not a judge... to determine guilt or innocence.......and by guilt i mean guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.......long way before milne is convicted of anything imho.........i would think a good lawyer's first arguments would be along the lines that this has been an abuse of process right from the start...and that justice delayed is justice denied......and all parties to this sorry affair... apart from the police ..have been subjected to one of the worst cases of delayed justice i can think of......

...very different from the case where allegations of an assault that only comes to light after 10-20 years.....