Luke Ball could captain Collingwood

[BigMart]

Have we lost more champions than other clubs?!

[CURLY]

Have we lost more champions than other clubs?!

Luke Ball is hardly what you'd call a champion.

[bergholt]

Have we lost more champions than other clubs?!

You never replied to my question about Hawthorn losing G Ablett Sr?

[Dr Spaceman]

I think the OP is actually wrong.

Dr Spaceman could captain Collingwood.

Luke Ball may captain Collingwood.

[Hurricane]

The amount of f*** that were given could be counted on one hand

BANG BANG

[desertsaint]

He just couldn't meet Lyon's benchmark of running flat-out 50% of the game. Lyon couldn't see past this. Never mind his ball getting ability and toughness. Never mind his willingness to go head first into packs. He just physically couldn't run flat out 50% of on-field time. Saying he's a sook because he couldn't is like saying he's a sook because he couldn't grow a couple of inches. People are gifted different levels of ability in different facets of the game. Cousins for example - he could run and run and run and run and run. Some guys just have more endurance and ability in this.
Lyon farked us over completely in losing Ball. Malthouse didn't mind his running ability. And he's got a premiership medal to prove it. A disaster for the club to lose a player of that calibre for absolutely nothing. Didn't need to lose him - he didn't want to leave. And then we lost him for no return. Thanks Ross.

Of all the posts this is the one closest to my take on it. I'd add a bit of bitterness thrown in on both sides.
At the time I said good luck to Ball and almost hope he wins a flag (ouch). I also shook my head at losing a quality person like himself and getting a rubbish individual like Lovett in return. I still say good luck to him. The whole Ball/Lovett saga was the lowlight of Lyon's tenure.

[BigMart]

Curly

200 games
Club Captain
B&F
RU B&F
All Australian
Premiership player

He's not too bad, I reckon

Berg holt
Ablett was no champion at Hawthorn, only a handful of games a lot of promise, indifferent character and really homesick and struggling with the demands..... Oh, and Hawthorn won 5 premierships in 8 grand finals in that period.... I wouldn't use them as example of poor list management, especially in that period...

BTW.... Every team has the one that got away, and players walk out on them, even champions occasionally?!

Can you think of a team who have had more walk out and achieve more at their next club?!

Heck, we have even had a few legends walk
Ditterich
Stewart
Lockett

On top of
Everitt, Goddard, Ball, Hall, Greene, Smith, Lappin.... And plenty more

[MCG-Unit]

He just couldn't meet Lyon's benchmark of running flat-out 50% of the game. Lyon couldn't see past this. Never mind his ball getting ability and toughness. Never mind his willingness to go head first into packs. He just physically couldn't run flat out 50% of on-field time.....

Lyon f..... us over completely in losing Ball.....And he's got a premiership medal to prove it. A disaster for the club to lose a player of that calibre for absolutely nothing. Didn't need to lose him - he didn't want to leave. And then we lost him for no return. Thanks Ross.

Of all the posts this is the one closest to my take on it. I'd add a bit of bitterness thrown in on both sides.
At the time I said good luck to Ball and almost hope he wins a flag (ouch). I also shook my head at losing a quality person like himself and getting a rubbish individual like Lovett in return. I still say good luck to him. The whole Ball/Lovett saga was the lowlight of Lyon's tenure.

Yep that's just about my take on it as well. Not only Lyon's tenure - the Ball/AL saga was also one of the lowlights of my time following the Saints.
The worst In: / Out: I've ever seen in a Saints pre-season trading.

On topic, off course Ball would be able to captain Coll.

[gringo]

He just couldn't meet Lyon's benchmark of running flat-out 50% of the game. Lyon couldn't see past this. Never mind his ball getting ability and toughness. Never mind his willingness to go head first into packs. He just physically couldn't run flat out 50% of on-field time.....

Lyon f..... us over completely in losing Ball.....And he's got a premiership medal to prove it. A disaster for the club to lose a player of that calibre for absolutely nothing. Didn't need to lose him - he didn't want to leave. And then we lost him for no return. Thanks Ross.

Of all the posts this is the one closest to my take on it. I'd add a bit of bitterness thrown in on both sides.
At the time I said good luck to Ball and almost hope he wins a flag (ouch). I also shook my head at losing a quality person like himself and getting a rubbish individual like Lovett in return. I still say good luck to him. The whole Ball/Lovett saga was the lowlight of Lyon's tenure.

Yep that's just about my take on it as well. Not only Lyon's tenure - the Ball/AL saga was also one of the lowlights of my time following the Saints.
The worst In: / Out: I've ever seen in a Saints pre-season trading.

On topic, off course Ball would be able to captain Coll.

He still left the club without letting us get anything in return. Kurt Tippett did the same thing and lost his integrity in the process too. Can't call him quality anymore after that.

[MCG-Unit]

Of all the posts this is the one closest to my take on it. I'd add a bit of bitterness thrown in on both sides.
At the time I said good luck to Ball and almost hope he wins a flag (ouch). I also shook my head at losing a quality person like himself and getting a rubbish individual like Lovett in return. I still say good luck to him. The whole Ball/Lovett saga was the lowlight of Lyon's tenure.

Yep that's just about my take on it as well. Not only Lyon's tenure - the Ball/AL saga was also one of the lowlights of my time following the Saints.
The worst In: / Out: I've ever seen in a Saints pre-season trading.

On topic, off course Ball would be able to captain Coll.

He still left the club without letting us get anything in return. Kurt Tippett did the same thing and lost his integrity in the process too. Can't call him quality anymore after that.

Not sure how Ball could influence the trade all that much, other than maybe only wanting to go to Coll. Saints/Coll could not agree on a deal.
I believe that it was going to be Coll's pick 14 for Ball. But once they traded that selection to the Swans for Jolly - the Saints were never going to get fair compensation. Coll were not going to give up a top player (eg Sidebottom or Beams) and the Saints stood their ground..........

Perhaps the Saints could have tried to arrange a 3 club deal to get some return - maybe they did.
Guess there was some bitterness from both sides.

Edit: Oppostion Bored

[st.byron]

He still left the club without letting us get anything in return. Kurt Tippett did the same thing and lost his integrity in the process too. Can't call him quality anymore after that.

Crikey Gringo. What was the bloke supposed to do? Lyon treated him without respect and sitting out the second half of the 2009 GF was the straw that broke the camel's back. What a farkwit - Lyon I mean. You're holding Ball responsible for St.Kilda and Collingwood not being able to do a deal. Not his fault. What was he supposed to do? Stay under Lyon, who had clearly demonstrated his lack of support and belief unless the clubs could do a satisfactory deal? And once the Filth realised they were probably going to get him for free, well if we were in the same position would we be offering draft picks or quality players? I think not.
The blame lies fair and square with Lyon.

[kosifantutti]

He still left the club without letting us get anything in return. Kurt Tippett did the same thing and lost his integrity in the process too. Can't call him quality anymore after that.

Crikey Gringo. What was the bloke supposed to do? Lyon treated him without respect and sitting out the second half of the 2009 GF was the straw that broke the camel's back. What a farkwit - Lyon I mean. You're holding Ball responsible for St.Kilda and Collingwood not being able to do a deal. Not his fault. What was he supposed to do? Stay under Lyon, who had clearly demonstrated his lack of support and belief unless the clubs could do a satisfactory deal? And once the Filth realised they were probably going to get him for free, well if we were in the same position would we be offering draft picks or quality players? I think not.
The blame lies fair and square with Lyon.

He insisted on going to only one club. Refused to talk to Melbourne or Essendon who were both interested which meant we had to take or leave what Collingwood offered.

[bergholt]

He insisted on going to only one club. Refused to talk to Melbourne or Essendon who were both interested which meant we had to take or leave what Collingwood offered.

Yep. He's smart enough to know how negotiations work. If he leaves us with only one club to deal with then we have no BATNA so have a very weak position. The only logical interpretation of this can be that he was angry at St Kilda and wanted to shaft the club. He succeeded.

[markp]

He felt disrespected by lyon so he understandably shafted the club?

Geezus what a load of shyte.

Ball wanted more than we were willing to pay him (after years of being paid overs).

He did what was best for himself... just like goddard, just like lyon, hamill, gehrig.... just like 99% of us would.

Good luck the lot of them.

Get over it.

[BigMart]

And he has that right as an individual.... No qualms there

Did stk do what was in their best interest.... Have a commodity, lose it and gain zero in return....

Mismanagement!!
That simple

[SainterK]

He felt disrespected by lyon so he understandably shafted the club?

Geezus what a load of shyte.

Ball wanted more than we were willing to pay him (after years of being paid overs).

He did what was best for himself... just like goddard, just like lyon, hamill, gehrig.... just like 99% of us would.

Good luck the lot of them.

Get over it.

You don't think we could of got someone from the Pies for him?

[st.byron]

You don't think we could of got someone from the Pies for him?

If memory serves me correctly, the Filth actually offered us Goldsack and we knocked them back. Hindsight is a great thing, but a 25 y.o, 193 cm, nearly 100 game defender who played every game for them last year, would be quite a handy fella for us to have right now.

[bergholt]

You don't think we could of got someone from the Pies for him?

If memory serves me correctly, the Filth actually offered us Goldsack and we knocked them back. Hindsight is a great thing, but a 25 y.o, 193 cm, nearly 100 game defender who played every game for them last year, would be quite a handy fella for us to have right now.

Didn't he play defensive forward last year? He would have been bagged as a list clogged from the day he walked on the door, and for mine that would have been correct.

[st.byron]

Didn't he play defensive forward last year? He would have been bagged as a list clogged from the day he walked on the door, and for mine that would have been correct.

Can't say for sure Bergholt. Don't follow the Filth players much and being a long way away does tend to stop you picking up details like that about other clubs. His bio on the Filth site is for last year. At the time I recall that we were all incensed that the Filth should offer us Goldsack for Ball, but in retrospect...... I remember watching one Filth game last year and being impressed with his development. Like he'd gone another level. Could be wrong. But.......193cm, nearly 100 games now and he managed to play 22 games in a top 4 side. He must have some upside. A defender of that size and strength (92kg) is not something we have a a lot of options with right now. Just sayin'.

[kosifantutti]

Other than Roberton, Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt, Simpkin, Dempster, Ferguson and Blake we have hardly anyone that size to play down back.

[bergholt]

Other than Roberton, Gilbert, Fisher, Gwilt, Simpkin, Dempster, Ferguson and Blake we have hardly anyone that size to play down back.

Yep. And Staley. Dunell, Siposs, Shenton and Webster aren't a lot smaller. We don't really need mid-size attacking defenders, we need truly big, negating guys.

[RememberJDaniels]

He left for more money than we were willing to pay for him, fair enough. But does some of the responsibility lie with the list managing to ensure that good players stay put at the Saints?

[CURLY]

He left for more money than we were willing to pay for him, fair enough. But does some of the responsibility lie with the list managing to ensure that good players stay put at the Saints?

He was payed plenty when he was dojng nothing.

[joffaboy]

He left for more money than we were willing to pay for him, fair enough. But does some of the responsibility lie with the list managing to ensure that good players stay put at the Saints?

He was payed plenty when he was dojng nothing.

he was paid way over what he was worth.

To call him a champion is absolutely laughable - LAUGHABLE.

If he wasn't cruelled by injury he in all probability would have been a champion, but he is slightly better than a GOP.

He was getting 600k, while other more deserving players were on much less, he the got offered 500k a season about 150k more then he is worth from Collingwood. He took that and good luck to him. he won a premiership and good luck to him.

He may become Collingwood captain and good luck to him. He took the cash and that is the right thing to do.

But to say he was a champion is the most laughable thing I have ever heard. A couldabeen, but never was all ever will be a champion.

Lenny is a champion, Harvs was a champion, Ball is light years from those REAL St.Kilda champions.

[noob]

It's hard to believe he left St.Kilda at the age of 25. I wouldn't call him a champion either but he won a BNF at the age of 21 in a team that made the prelim.. I'd say he is quality.