Incompetent umpiring

[plugger66]

Must watch it closely

Perhaps watch the replay.... You mightn't forget people....and see thing more closely.... You can miss things 100 meters away.

Are you going to tell me dal's and Armo's role last night or not.

[saint66au]

Yes...there were some umpiring howlers last night..and yes most of them didnt go our way..and yes it was a close game and they might have made a difference..,.but...

If anyone things that the only thing stopping us winning that game last night was bad umpiring...that somehow the best tem was robbed of winning by the officials...well they are deluding themselves.

We play like that against Hawthorn in 2 weeks..we could have 100 more frees than them and we'll still get smashed.

[desertsaint]

You're in the Olympics, 100 m final. You don't run your best race, you stumble a bit, and just out from the line there's nothing in it. Then your rival grabs your collar and pulls himself past you. Officials ignore it. You lose. You complain to your dad who berates you and says, it's your fault, if you'd run a better race he would'n't have been close enough to grab you!
That's the reasoning of some on here. Very unfair on the players. Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.

[perfectionist]

...Are you going to tell me dal's and Armo's role last night or not.

Dunno about their "role", but I assume it wasn't as they played. Neither has the capacity to "spread", that is, run into space to create. This is why both can be exploited in big games when on reasonable opponents. Jack can spread, but is a turn over merchant, except when he kicks around his body. The good news is that Jarryn Geary seems to have improved in this regard this year, perhaps because of the massive amount of weight work he has done on his legs, especially his calves. Whether this, or some other fix, will work for Jack time will tell. If it doesn't, he will forever remain a disposal dud.

On Nick DS, see my other post on this matter. I suppose his apologists will go through 22 games of poor performances still defending him. Despite that, something must be done, but his poor defensive skills make playing off the backline less likely. On David, I don't know. His endeavour in packs was still good but he was denied any freedom to get a good handpass or clear kick - on most occasions anyway.

Stephen Milne's field kicking has never been great, but has got worse this year. This is a strange reversal of most player's problem - kicking for goal.

We did seem to tire, a someone pointed out, but I think that had more to do with our inefficient use compared to theirs. Nick R had 80% game time and was stuffed the last time he came on. However, his opponent ran him around as much as possible and is one of the best backs in the AFL.

Kosi's game was excellent, except for the traditional lack of discipline and a desire to get the young bloke into the game. Lenny did more than anyone but kicked as poorly as I have ever seen. Sam Fisher remains a marvel and our backline looks organised when he is on the ground. Alas, the reverse is also true.

[Thinline]

Over-officiated.

That is all.

24 frees says that is completely wrong.

It was the ones missed that riled me up.

UNDERofficiated if anything.

I bemoan our skills under pressure and execution but sloppy officialdom was the nail in the coffin. Bad decisions are one thing, but a stream of HOWLERS within range are unacceptable. A few off the top: Kosi being held one out and getting pinged for the hold; Ballantyne hold ball (Steven if I recall); Roo at least twice getting chopped; Milne being decapitated; a succession of drag-ins by Freo players deemed perfectly acceptable when Dal Santo has the ball pinned to him, fights like a dog to get it out and gets pinged.

I'm a yin and yanger when it comes to umpiring. What goes around etc. But last night I think it had a significant bearing on the final result, especially in combination with our own tendency to self-harm. Neither scenario is good enough. It frustrates me no end to see our blokes FLOG themselves to exhaustion only to allow a variable to dictate the outcome. Still, that variable should be more predictable than it was last night. That was s***.

Re Dal: Lyons match ups were great. Dal was targeted and beat. Whoop dee doo. Sometimes the tagger wins. More likely it'll happen in a game like that. Clint Jones was a very effective player under Lyon remember .

While I slander (slightly) our skills under the pump you have to remember it was a highly congested, frenetic, classic Lyon-like game. It should also be pointed out that they turned it over repeatedly as well. It was hot as.

Couple of arsey ones went went through off Freo boots. Couple of arsey ones of Saints boots didn't (Milera and Milne). We deadset goosed 5. It won't happen that way every week. It's just devastating that we will probably come out of this first 5 rounds 3-2 instead of the 4-1 I probably would have taken pre-season. And to be frank, it'll be hard to keep up without a headstart.

All that said I though our gut bust effort was superb. They keep giving, ouyr boys. Never stop. Skill may hold them back, but effort is outstanding.

I almost pity Melbourne . There'll be some pretty angry Saints keen to keep a handle on their own destinies next Sat night you'd reckon.

[saint75]

Over-officiated.

That is all.

24 frees says that is completely wrong.

It was the ones missed that riled me up.

UNDERofficiated if anything.

I bemoan our skills under pressure and execution but sloppy officialdom was the nail in the coffin. Bad decisions are one thing, but a stream of HOWLERS within range are unacceptable. A few off the top: Kosi being held one out and getting pinged for the hold; Ballantyne hold ball (Steven if I recall); Roo at least twice getting chopped; Milne being decapitated; a succession of drag-ins by Freo players deemed perfectly acceptable when Dal Santo has the ball pinned to him, fights like a dog to get it out and gets pinged.

I'm a yin and yanger when it comes to umpiring. What goes around etc. But last night I think it had a significant bearing on the final result, especially in combination with our own tendency to self-harm. Neither scenario is good enough. It frustrates me no end to see our blokes FLOG themselves to exhaustion only to allow a variable to dictate the outcome. Still, that variable should be more predictable than it was last night. That was s***.

Re Dal: Lyons match ups were great. Dal was targeted and beat. Whoop dee doo. Sometimes the tagger wins. More likely it'll happen in a game like that. Clint Jones was a very effective player under Lyon remember .

While I slander (slightly) our skills under the pump you have to remember it was a highly congested, frenetic, classic Lyon-like game. It should also be pointed out that they turned it over repeatedly as well. It was hot as.

Couple of arsey ones went went through off Freo boots. Couple of arsey ones of Saints boots didn't (Milera and Milne). We deadset goosed 5. It won't happen that way every week. It's just devastating that we will probably come out of this first 5 rounds 3-2 instead of the 4-1 I probably would have taken pre-season. And to be frank, it'll be hard to keep up without a headstart.

All that said I though our gut bust effort was superb. They keep giving, ouyr boys. Never stop. Skill may hold them back, but effort is outstanding.

I almost pity Melbourne . There'll be some pretty angry Saints keen to keep a handle on their own destinies next Sat night you'd reckon.

Excellent post. The free against BJ in the last quarter really peeved me off as well.

If anyone is happy with the umpiring from last night, they are delusional. Worst umpiring I have seen this year to date and I have watched all the games bar 1 maybe 2.

You can never rely on umpiring decisions to win a game, but geez they freakin' hurt when one team gets them at crucial stages and areas on the field and the other team doesn't. That is a fact. Was bloody proud of the team and their effort last night. It was not Lyon's strategies that won them the game, it was our poor disposal and kick at goal that cost us, which won't happen again. I still think we are a couple of games behind were we need to be and can only see improvement. I am really looking forward to the match against Hawthorn to get a better gauge of where we are at.

[gringo]

From where we sat,which was on the fence Aisle 33, the holding the ball decision against Dal Santo, which was the only one paid for the night, was paid by the umpire from behind the play. The umpire who was nearest and front on did not make a decision.
Dal got grabbed, you could tell from his expression he correctly assumed that it was going to be a ball up because the ball was going no where as it was being held to him.
As for the non 50 metre penalty to Goddard, under the interpretation of the rules that should have been a 50 metre penalty everyday, it was a non decision by the umpires.
As for Kosi constantly having an arm wrapped around him by Dawson, I'll bet you'll see that free paid in today's games.
You will also see more evidence of incompetence today, by umpires who have to put up with constant re interpretations of the rules by their boss.
The real problem with the umpire's is that buffoon who is charge of them Gieschen. He was a complete incompetent coach at Richmond and has just continued his incompetency with the umpires.
He should have been sacked years ago.

I was next to the boundary when Milne was called out of bounds when he kept it in and the boundary umpire closest didn't call it a guy on the other side with no vision blew the whistle? I think it was Steven or Geary tapped it back into play and Milne was heading for goal.

[Old Mate]

From where we sat,which was on the fence Aisle 33, the holding the ball decision against Dal Santo, which was the only one paid for the night, was paid by the umpire from behind the play. The umpire who was nearest and front on did not make a decision.
Dal got grabbed, you could tell from his expression he correctly assumed that it was going to be a ball up because the ball was going no where as it was being held to him.
As for the non 50 metre penalty to Goddard, under the interpretation of the rules that should have been a 50 metre penalty everyday, it was a non decision by the umpires.
As for Kosi constantly having an arm wrapped around him by Dawson, I'll bet you'll see that free paid in today's games.
You will also see more evidence of incompetence today, by umpires who have to put up with constant re interpretations of the rules by their boss.
The real problem with the umpire's is that buffoon who is charge of them Gieschen. He was a complete incompetent coach at Richmond and has just continued his incompetency with the umpires.
He should have been sacked years ago.

I was next to the boundary when Milne was called out of bounds when he kept it in and the boundary umpire closest didn't call it a guy on the other side with no vision blew the whistle? I think it was Steven or Geary tapped it back into play and Milne was heading for goal.

Milne actually kicked that goal. It went straight between the big sticks.

[gringo]

I know I was near the Freo CS and was on my feet ready to pencil it in because I thought a guy with the whistle was calling play on after a Freo infringement on his side of the ground not trying to guess a boundary decision out of his vision.

[desertsaint]

I was next to the boundary when Milne was called out of bounds when he kept it in and the boundary umpire closest didn't call it a guy on the other side with no vision blew the whistle? I think it was Steven or Geary tapped it back into play and Milne was heading for goal.

A Yarran moment. But like Yarran he did take it out for a brief moment. Unlike Yarran the ump saw it correctly. Unlike Yarran the AFL will say it was correct based on the footage, rather than deliberately ignore the footage. Both were clearly out.

[Buckets]

For me it was the inconsistency of the umpiring last night and that's the frustrating part. The crucial ones that were there for Freo were never paid for the boys. Can someone please explain how Bj was not given a 50 in the 3rd and what that free against him in the 4th was? And the 50 paid to Zac...did he play on by hand balling?

[prwilkinson]

The BBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO at the end of the match as the umpires left the ground pretty much summed it up..

[ozrulestrace]

I was beginning to wonder if they were applying the 30 second rule to everyone of those scrums that developed before blowing the whistle for a ball up.

I feel like I'm watching rugby whilst they stand off trying to make a decision or more to the point trying to avoid making a decision one way or the other.

I hate the way the game is heading.

[gringo]

I'm a big fan of leave the game alone but it was like russian roulette umpiring, click...click...click ...boom -whistle? Just make it consistent and no one is unhappy.

[PJ]

It's a hard game to officiate but they are paid well and trained to the highest level - not a good performance last night. The miccing of the umps is a curious one and actually made it very difficult to understand who was saying what.

[bergholt]

Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.

would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.

in the 2010 grand final, the ball didn't bounce for milney. but if lenny had kicked it more accurately then it would have gone through for a goal. you put yourself in a position where chance can have its way with you - sometimes it will. on the other hand, if you're good enough that chance never enters the equation, like we were in a lot of games in 2009, then umpiring and the bounce of the ball just don't matter.

[plugger66]

24 frees says that is completely wrong.

It was the ones missed that riled me up.

UNDERofficiated if anything.

I bemoan our skills under pressure and execution but sloppy officialdom was the nail in the coffin. Bad decisions are one thing, but a stream of HOWLERS within range are unacceptable. A few off the top: Kosi being held one out and getting pinged for the hold; Ballantyne hold ball (Steven if I recall); Roo at least twice getting chopped; Milne being decapitated; a succession of drag-ins by Freo players deemed perfectly acceptable when Dal Santo has the ball pinned to him, fights like a dog to get it out and gets pinged.

I'm a yin and yanger when it comes to umpiring. What goes around etc. But last night I think it had a significant bearing on the final result, especially in combination with our own tendency to self-harm. Neither scenario is good enough. It frustrates me no end to see our blokes FLOG themselves to exhaustion only to allow a variable to dictate the outcome. Still, that variable should be more predictable than it was last night. That was s***.

Re Dal: Lyons match ups were great. Dal was targeted and beat. Whoop dee doo. Sometimes the tagger wins. More likely it'll happen in a game like that. Clint Jones was a very effective player under Lyon remember .

While I slander (slightly) our skills under the pump you have to remember it was a highly congested, frenetic, classic Lyon-like game. It should also be pointed out that they turned it over repeatedly as well. It was hot as.

Couple of arsey ones went went through off Freo boots. Couple of arsey ones of Saints boots didn't (Milera and Milne). We deadset goosed 5. It won't happen that way every week. It's just devastating that we will probably come out of this first 5 rounds 3-2 instead of the 4-1 I probably would have taken pre-season. And to be frank, it'll be hard to keep up without a headstart.

All that said I though our gut bust effort was superb. They keep giving, ouyr boys. Never stop. Skill may hold them back, but effort is outstanding.

I almost pity Melbourne . There'll be some pretty angry Saints keen to keep a handle on their own destinies next Sat night you'd reckon.

Excellent post. The free against BJ in the last quarter really peeved me off as well.

If anyone is happy with the umpiring from last night, they are delusional. Worst umpiring I have seen this year to date and I have watched all the games bar 1 maybe 2.

You can never rely on umpiring decisions to win a game, but geez they freakin' hurt when one team gets them at crucial stages and areas on the field and the other team doesn't. That is a fact. Was bloody proud of the team and their effort last night. It was not Lyon's strategies that won them the game, it was our poor disposal and kick at goal that cost us, which won't happen again. I still think we are a couple of games behind were we need to be and can only see improvement. I am really looking forward to the match against Hawthorn to get a better gauge of where we are at.

I wish you knew the rules. B'J's free was 100% correct. Others may not have been but that one as.

[SaintPav]

I wish you knew the rules. B'J's free was 100% correct. Others may not have been but that one as.

I was in the SC at the time becuase I was getting fed up and wanted to have a drink. I saw that incident live and I thought wtf??!!..I turned around and saw it on the telly and BJ obstructed a bit before so it looked correct..HOWEVER, there were 2 or 3 that did not go our way including a 50 that should have been paid to BJ when he took a mark and was brought down. He could have given that off to Milne..That was a terrible miss. There were two others..whatever..Seems we focus on umpiring decisions in close games and when our season isn't going well. Same thing happened last year. We're just not good enough but still, some of those decisions or lack there of appeared PATHETIC.

[Teflon]

Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.

would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.

in the 2010 grand final, the ball didn't bounce for milney. but if lenny had kicked it more accurately then it would have gone through for a goal. you put yourself in a position where chance can have its way with you - sometimes it will. on the other hand, if you're good enough that chance never enters the equation, like we were in a lot of games in 2009, then umpiring and the bounce of the ball just don't matter.

I dont think "chance" and wearing the odd free against you when a game is tight is in question here - what EVERY poster I am reading on this thread (bar the perennial "we love umps" squad trying to be politically correct) is saying is: what is it when "chance" poor decision become the norm? How can interpretations for 2 sides be so consistently and glaringly different?? At a time in the modern game when we have more umpires than ever, supposedly more professional era than ever at a time when they are paid very well to do the job??

FFS somethings not right here and its a discussion that ought be had - fish rots from the head and Gieschen is not up to the job clearly. Did he ever umpire?? get an ex senior ump to manage these guys...............someone who has a clue and cut the AFL exec salary gravy train for "those in the know" FFS.

[Buckets]

Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.

would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.

in the 2010 grand final, the ball didn't bounce for milney. but if lenny had kicked it more accurately then it would have gone through for a goal. you put yourself in a position where chance can have its way with you - sometimes it will. on the other hand, if you're good enough that chance never enters the equation, like we were in a lot of games in 2009, then umpiring and the bounce of the ball just don't matter.

I dont think "chance" and wearing the odd free against you when a game is tight is in question here - what EVERY poster I am reading on this thread (bar the perennial "we love umps" squad trying to be politically correct) is saying is: what is it when "chance" poor decision become the norm? How can interpretations for 2 sides be so consistently and glaringly different?? At a time in the modern game when we have more umpires than ever, supposedly more professional era than ever at a time when they are paid very well to do the job??

FFS somethings not right here and its a discussion that ought be had - fish rots from the head and Gieschen is not up to the job clearly. Did he ever umpire?? get an ex senior ump to manage these guys...............someone who has a clue and cut the AFL exec salary gravy train for "those in the know" FFS.

+1

[SainterK]

Umpiring tonight (Hawks/WCE) I thought reflected that the whistle was put away because of Friday night.....



























Until the last quarter

[Teflon]

some shocking decisions in last qtr........against Hawks who surprisingly were the interstate team?????

ah well.....we're all making it up...........maybe we are sooking it up cause secretly we are Hawks supporters??? cause there couldnt be anything wrong with the umpriring could there be?

[bergholt]

ah well.....we're all making it up...........maybe we are sooking it up cause secretly we are Hawks supporters??? cause there couldnt be anything wrong with the umpriring could there be?

of course there could. bad decisions are made every week and will be forever as there's absolutely no way to stop that. the ridiculous thing is people claiming that we always get the rough end of the pineapple or that there's some sort of agenda against us. conspiracies are unlikely simply because there are humans involved and someone always talks.

[Dis Believer]

As my brother sat laughing last week at some of the soft frees and bad decisions that went our way against the Dogs, I said we don't want or need s*** like that, because what goes around comes around and there will be a game where we are on the end of bad umpiring yet again.

I didn't expect it to happen so soon.

[plugger66]

Umpiring tonight (Hawks/WCE) I thought reflected that the whistle was put away because of Friday night.....



























Until the last quarter

Confused SK. 40 frees till three quarter time compared to 24 all night in our game. Cant see how that is puting the whistle away and ours was over umpired.