BigMart wrote:Must watch it closely
Perhaps watch the replay.... You mightn't forget people....and see thing more closely.... You can miss things 100 meters away.
Are you going to tell me dal's and Armo's role last night or not.
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BigMart wrote:Must watch it closely
Perhaps watch the replay.... You mightn't forget people....and see thing more closely.... You can miss things 100 meters away.
Dunno about their "role", but I assume it wasn't as they played. Neither has the capacity to "spread", that is, run into space to create. This is why both can be exploited in big games when on reasonable opponents. Jack can spread, but is a turn over merchant, except when he kicks around his body. The good news is that Jarryn Geary seems to have improved in this regard this year, perhaps because of the massive amount of weight work he has done on his legs, especially his calves. Whether this, or some other fix, will work for Jack time will tell. If it doesn't, he will forever remain a disposal dud.plugger66 wrote:...Are you going to tell me dal's and Armo's role last night or not.
It was the ones missed that riled me up.plugger66 wrote:SainterK wrote:Over-officiated.
That is all.
24 frees says that is completely wrong.
Thinline wrote:It was the ones missed that riled me up.plugger66 wrote:SainterK wrote:Over-officiated.
That is all.
24 frees says that is completely wrong.
UNDERofficiated if anything.
I bemoan our skills under pressure and execution but sloppy officialdom was the nail in the coffin. Bad decisions are one thing, but a stream of HOWLERS within range are unacceptable. A few off the top: Kosi being held one out and getting pinged for the hold; Ballantyne hold ball (Steven if I recall); Roo at least twice getting chopped; Milne being decapitated; a succession of drag-ins by Freo players deemed perfectly acceptable when Dal Santo has the ball pinned to him, fights like a dog to get it out and gets pinged.
I'm a yin and yanger when it comes to umpiring. What goes around etc. But last night I think it had a significant bearing on the final result, especially in combination with our own tendency to self-harm. Neither scenario is good enough. It frustrates me no end to see our blokes FLOG themselves to exhaustion only to allow a variable to dictate the outcome. Still, that variable should be more predictable than it was last night. That was s***.
Re Dal: Lyons match ups were great. Dal was targeted and beat. Whoop dee doo. Sometimes the tagger wins. More likely it'll happen in a game like that. Clint Jones was a very effective player under Lyon remember.
While I slander (slightly) our skills under the pump you have to remember it was a highly congested, frenetic, classic Lyon-like game. It should also be pointed out that they turned it over repeatedly as well. It was hot as.
Couple of arsey ones went went through off Freo boots. Couple of arsey ones of Saints boots didn't (Milera and Milne). We deadset goosed 5. It won't happen that way every week. It's just devastating that we will probably come out of this first 5 rounds 3-2 instead of the 4-1 I probably would have taken pre-season. And to be frank, it'll be hard to keep up without a headstart.
All that said I though our gut bust effort was superb. They keep giving, ouyr boys. Never stop. Skill may hold them back, but effort is outstanding.
I almost pity Melbourne . There'll be some pretty angry Saints keen to keep a handle on their own destinies next Sat night you'd reckon.
3rd generation saint wrote:From where we sat,which was on the fence Aisle 33, the holding the ball decision against Dal Santo, which was the only one paid for the night, was paid by the umpire from behind the play. The umpire who was nearest and front on did not make a decision.
Dal got grabbed, you could tell from his expression he correctly assumed that it was going to be a ball up because the ball was going no where as it was being held to him.
As for the non 50 metre penalty to Goddard, under the interpretation of the rules that should have been a 50 metre penalty everyday, it was a non decision by the umpires.
As for Kosi constantly having an arm wrapped around him by Dawson, I'll bet you'll see that free paid in today's games.
You will also see more evidence of incompetence today, by umpires who have to put up with constant re interpretations of the rules by their boss.
The real problem with the umpire's is that buffoon who is charge of them Gieschen. He was a complete incompetent coach at Richmond and has just continued his incompetency with the umpires.
He should have been sacked years ago.
Milne actually kicked that goal. It went straight between the big sticks.gringo wrote:3rd generation saint wrote:From where we sat,which was on the fence Aisle 33, the holding the ball decision against Dal Santo, which was the only one paid for the night, was paid by the umpire from behind the play. The umpire who was nearest and front on did not make a decision.
Dal got grabbed, you could tell from his expression he correctly assumed that it was going to be a ball up because the ball was going no where as it was being held to him.
As for the non 50 metre penalty to Goddard, under the interpretation of the rules that should have been a 50 metre penalty everyday, it was a non decision by the umpires.
As for Kosi constantly having an arm wrapped around him by Dawson, I'll bet you'll see that free paid in today's games.
You will also see more evidence of incompetence today, by umpires who have to put up with constant re interpretations of the rules by their boss.
The real problem with the umpire's is that buffoon who is charge of them Gieschen. He was a complete incompetent coach at Richmond and has just continued his incompetency with the umpires.
He should have been sacked years ago.
I was next to the boundary when Milne was called out of bounds when he kept it in and the boundary umpire closest didn't call it a guy on the other side with no vision blew the whistle? I think it was Steven or Geary tapped it back into play and Milne was heading for goal.
A Yarran moment. But like Yarran he did take it out for a brief moment. Unlike Yarran the ump saw it correctly. Unlike Yarran the AFL will say it was correct based on the footage, rather than deliberately ignore the footage. Both were clearly out.gringo wrote: I was next to the boundary when Milne was called out of bounds when he kept it in and the boundary umpire closest didn't call it a guy on the other side with no vision blew the whistle? I think it was Steven or Geary tapped it back into play and Milne was heading for goal.
would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.desertsaint wrote:Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.
saint75 wrote:Thinline wrote:It was the ones missed that riled me up.plugger66 wrote:
24 frees says that is completely wrong.
UNDERofficiated if anything.
I bemoan our skills under pressure and execution but sloppy officialdom was the nail in the coffin. Bad decisions are one thing, but a stream of HOWLERS within range are unacceptable. A few off the top: Kosi being held one out and getting pinged for the hold; Ballantyne hold ball (Steven if I recall); Roo at least twice getting chopped; Milne being decapitated; a succession of drag-ins by Freo players deemed perfectly acceptable when Dal Santo has the ball pinned to him, fights like a dog to get it out and gets pinged.
I'm a yin and yanger when it comes to umpiring. What goes around etc. But last night I think it had a significant bearing on the final result, especially in combination with our own tendency to self-harm. Neither scenario is good enough. It frustrates me no end to see our blokes FLOG themselves to exhaustion only to allow a variable to dictate the outcome. Still, that variable should be more predictable than it was last night. That was s***.
Re Dal: Lyons match ups were great. Dal was targeted and beat. Whoop dee doo. Sometimes the tagger wins. More likely it'll happen in a game like that. Clint Jones was a very effective player under Lyon remember.
While I slander (slightly) our skills under the pump you have to remember it was a highly congested, frenetic, classic Lyon-like game. It should also be pointed out that they turned it over repeatedly as well. It was hot as.
Couple of arsey ones went went through off Freo boots. Couple of arsey ones of Saints boots didn't (Milera and Milne). We deadset goosed 5. It won't happen that way every week. It's just devastating that we will probably come out of this first 5 rounds 3-2 instead of the 4-1 I probably would have taken pre-season. And to be frank, it'll be hard to keep up without a headstart.
All that said I though our gut bust effort was superb. They keep giving, ouyr boys. Never stop. Skill may hold them back, but effort is outstanding.
I almost pity Melbourne . There'll be some pretty angry Saints keen to keep a handle on their own destinies next Sat night you'd reckon.
Excellent post. The free against BJ in the last quarter really peeved me off as well.
If anyone is happy with the umpiring from last night, they are delusional. Worst umpiring I have seen this year to date and I have watched all the games bar 1 maybe 2.
You can never rely on umpiring decisions to win a game, but geez they freakin' hurt when one team gets them at crucial stages and areas on the field and the other team doesn't. That is a fact. Was bloody proud of the team and their effort last night. It was not Lyon's strategies that won them the game, it was our poor disposal and kick at goal that cost us, which won't happen again. I still think we are a couple of games behind were we need to be and can only see improvement. I am really looking forward to the match against Hawthorn to get a better gauge of where we are at.
I was in the SC at the time becuase I was getting fed up and wanted to have a drink. I saw that incident live and I thought wtf??!!..I turned around and saw it on the telly and BJ obstructed a bit before so it looked correct..HOWEVER, there were 2 or 3 that did not go our way including a 50 that should have been paid to BJ when he took a mark and was brought down. He could have given that off to Milne..That was a terrible miss. There were two others..whatever..Seems we focus on umpiring decisions in close games and when our season isn't going well. Same thing happened last year. We're just not good enough but still, some of those decisions or lack there of appeared PATHETIC.plugger66 wrote: I wish you knew the rules. B'J's free was 100% correct. Others may not have been but that one as.
I dont think "chance" and wearing the odd free against you when a game is tight is in question here - what EVERY poster I am reading on this thread (bar the perennial "we love umps" squad trying to be politically correct) is saying is: what is it when "chance" poor decision become the norm? How can interpretations for 2 sides be so consistently and glaringly different?? At a time in the modern game when we have more umpires than ever, supposedly more professional era than ever at a time when they are paid very well to do the job??bergholt wrote:would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.desertsaint wrote:Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.
in the 2010 grand final, the ball didn't bounce for milney. but if lenny had kicked it more accurately then it would have gone through for a goal. you put yourself in a position where chance can have its way with you - sometimes it will. on the other hand, if you're good enough that chance never enters the equation, like we were in a lot of games in 2009, then umpiring and the bounce of the ball just don't matter.
+1Teflon wrote:I dont think "chance" and wearing the odd free against you when a game is tight is in question here - what EVERY poster I am reading on this thread (bar the perennial "we love umps" squad trying to be politically correct) is saying is: what is it when "chance" poor decision become the norm? How can interpretations for 2 sides be so consistently and glaringly different?? At a time in the modern game when we have more umpires than ever, supposedly more professional era than ever at a time when they are paid very well to do the job??bergholt wrote:would you complain about the bounce of the ball? that it's biased and unfair? it's just another random variable in a night filled with them.desertsaint wrote:Both teams played a hard game, both teams made some bad errors, we may have made more - so what - with fair and consistent umpiring it would've been enough.
in the 2010 grand final, the ball didn't bounce for milney. but if lenny had kicked it more accurately then it would have gone through for a goal. you put yourself in a position where chance can have its way with you - sometimes it will. on the other hand, if you're good enough that chance never enters the equation, like we were in a lot of games in 2009, then umpiring and the bounce of the ball just don't matter.
FFS somethings not right here and its a discussion that ought be had - fish rots from the head and Gieschen is not up to the job clearly. Did he ever umpire?? get an ex senior ump to manage these guys...............someone who has a clue and cut the AFL exec salary gravy train for "those in the know" FFS.
of course there could. bad decisions are made every week and will be forever as there's absolutely no way to stop that. the ridiculous thing is people claiming that we always get the rough end of the pineapple or that there's some sort of agenda against us. conspiracies are unlikely simply because there are humans involved and someone always talks.Teflon wrote:ah well.....we're all making it up...........maybe we are sooking it up cause secretly we are Hawks supporters??? cause there couldnt be anything wrong with the umpriring could there be?
SainterK wrote:Umpiring tonight (Hawks/WCE) I thought reflected that the whistle was put away because of Friday night.....
Until the last quarter