Gary Ayres
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
What we need in a coach is ability.....Nothing else
Watters, cameron, sumich......none have as good a record as
Williams, Eade, Ayres.....not a single afl game victory....none have failed as coach.....none have succeeded
They would be a gamble....can we gamble and hope with an ageing list with a closing window for this group
Or do we throw the baby out with the bath water and start again....which will take 5 years
We did this in 2000....amost worked...but this time around, if we bottom out....we will not get riewoldt, koschitzke, ball, clarke, dal santo, maguire, montagna, goddard......in the space of three years
Watters, cameron, sumich......none have as good a record as
Williams, Eade, Ayres.....not a single afl game victory....none have failed as coach.....none have succeeded
They would be a gamble....can we gamble and hope with an ageing list with a closing window for this group
Or do we throw the baby out with the bath water and start again....which will take 5 years
We did this in 2000....amost worked...but this time around, if we bottom out....we will not get riewoldt, koschitzke, ball, clarke, dal santo, maguire, montagna, goddard......in the space of three years
- Dr Spaceman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14102
- Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009 11:07pm
- Location: Newtown Institute of Saintology
- Has thanked: 104 times
- Been thanked: 62 times
15 players in the williamstown team had played afl this year.....and a couple of others on the bulldogs list (including mitch hahn who has played 180 afl games) of their VFL players three had previous afl experience
Basically a team of full time footballers vs an amateur team
A very good amatuer team though
Basically a team of full time footballers vs an amateur team
A very good amatuer team though
- bobmurray
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7781
- Joined: Mon 03 Oct 2005 11:08pm
- Location: In the stand at RSEA Park.
- Has thanked: 497 times
- Been thanked: 226 times
counted for shite in the end....BigMart wrote:15 players in the williamstown team had played afl this year.....and a couple of others on the bulldogs list (including mitch hahn who has played 180 afl games) of their VFL players three had previous afl experience
Basically a team of full time footballers vs an amateur team
A very good amatuer team though
McCartney hasn't got much to work with, no wonder the dogs are crap....
Six debutants for the Saints so far in Season 2024. ![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
Dont be so quick to write them off.....they are a bot like us....a few of there stars were struggling this year
They still have quality on their list
Cooney, griffen, boyd, lake, murphy, cross, morris
Some of their kids show a bit
Wood, jones, libba, picken
Actually, your right.....they are up against it
They still have quality on their list
Cooney, griffen, boyd, lake, murphy, cross, morris
Some of their kids show a bit
Wood, jones, libba, picken
Actually, your right.....they are up against it
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
could we have afforded less to gamble when we took a punt on Lyon who turned out to be the best coach weve had since jeans?BigMart wrote:15 players in the williamstown team had played afl this year.....and a couple of others on the bulldogs list (including mitch hahn who has played 180 afl games) of their VFL players three had previous afl experience
Basically a team of full time footballers vs an amateur team
A very good amatuer team though
Eade is the longest serving coach for no flag - why???? EVERYBODY knows teh Bulldogs were easy to beat when you applied full press defensive pressure and they struggles to overcome it - their coach had NO idea. EVERYONE knows the Dogs under Eade loved to run fwd of the ball and looked flashy when allowed time/space to hit up perfect pass footy. Problem for Eade was the game had changed - he didnt.
What guys like Watters and Co DO have (as Lyon did) is first hand experience with succesful AFL sides for Flags under extremely good coaches in an environment that IS the best in the AFL. They also are younger which IMO is important relating to younger players.
Eade, Ayres, and co have had their shot.
“Yeah….nah””
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18841
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
He is miles from the bottom of the barrel. He's not at the top. but way closer to the top than bottom. If he is such a cabbage how come he just won a flag with a young side? If it was that easy everyone would do it. He has also got a 55% win loss at afl level.Teflon wrote:seriously going for Ayres and we are digging the bottom of the barrell...FFS......Con Gorozidis wrote:He's certainly not a cabbage. peole also learn from their mistakes.
I would be wary of him as senior coach. But I'd certainly have him as an assistant and steady hand. Clearly he has some ability as a coach and person.
As I said I agree we should go for someone more current as senior coach.
But I'm very comfortable with ayres in a mentor role.
Best thing about him is he is still hungry for an afl flag. Would be a good mentor to a first time coach (like watters, burns etc ).
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18841
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
Waters has had a pretty good mentor the last couple of years. Why would we get Ayers to mentor Waters when Ayers has been out of the AFL for 4 years. That would be disrespectful to Waters.Con Gorozidis wrote:He is miles from the bottom of the barrel. He's not at the top. but way closer to the top than bottom. If he is such a cabbage how come he just won a flag with a young side? If it was that easy everyone would do it. He has also got a 55% win loss at afl level.Teflon wrote:seriously going for Ayres and we are digging the bottom of the barrell...FFS......Con Gorozidis wrote:He's certainly not a cabbage. peole also learn from their mistakes.
I would be wary of him as senior coach. But I'd certainly have him as an assistant and steady hand. Clearly he has some ability as a coach and person.
As I said I agree we should go for someone more current as senior coach.
But I'm very comfortable with ayres in a mentor role.
Best thing about him is he is still hungry for an afl flag. Would be a good mentor to a first time coach (like watters, burns etc ).
Getting Ayres would put us behind the industry standard by up to 10%. When 1 or 2% probably puts you out of the top four, that gap would put us down the bottom.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
well said.SaintPav wrote:Waters has had a pretty good mentor the last couple of years. Why would we get Ayers to mentor Waters when Ayers has been out of the AFL for 4 years. That would be disrespectful to Waters.Con Gorozidis wrote:He is miles from the bottom of the barrel. He's not at the top. but way closer to the top than bottom. If he is such a cabbage how come he just won a flag with a young side? If it was that easy everyone would do it. He has also got a 55% win loss at afl level.Teflon wrote:seriously going for Ayres and we are digging the bottom of the barrell...FFS......Con Gorozidis wrote:He's certainly not a cabbage. peole also learn from their mistakes.
I would be wary of him as senior coach. But I'd certainly have him as an assistant and steady hand. Clearly he has some ability as a coach and person.
As I said I agree we should go for someone more current as senior coach.
But I'm very comfortable with ayres in a mentor role.
Best thing about him is he is still hungry for an afl flag. Would be a good mentor to a first time coach (like watters, burns etc ).
Getting Ayres would put us behind the industry standard by up to 10%. When 1 or 2% probably puts you out of the top four, that gap would put us down the bottom.
wake me up when con catches up.
“Yeah….nah””
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18841
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
These assistant coaches......do they develop these plans......
A senior coach is not just simply implementing someone elses game plan....they develop one, oversee the assistants who help drive it....but above all....take responsibility for the final decisions..
Its not just a matter of getting someone to copy another team......might work if we had their list......but develop a style to fit our list....
Scott Watters may well be a good coach....but the last reason we should get him is because je was a collingwood assistant.....he needs to be good enough to be a senior coach at a different club to collingwood.....
A senior coach is not just simply implementing someone elses game plan....they develop one, oversee the assistants who help drive it....but above all....take responsibility for the final decisions..
Its not just a matter of getting someone to copy another team......might work if we had their list......but develop a style to fit our list....
Scott Watters may well be a good coach....but the last reason we should get him is because je was a collingwood assistant.....he needs to be good enough to be a senior coach at a different club to collingwood.....
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18841
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1568 times
- Been thanked: 1962 times
Are you talking to me?BigMart wrote:These assistant coaches......do they develop these plans......
A senior coach is not just simply implementing someone elses game plan....they develop one, oversee the assistants who help drive it....but above all....take responsibility for the final decisions..
Its not just a matter of getting someone to copy another team......might work if we had their list......but develop a style to fit our list....
Scott Watters may well be a good coach....but the last reason we should get him is because je was a collingwood assistant.....he needs to be good enough to be a senior coach at a different club to collingwood.....
What you are saying is fine but that doesn't mean that Ayers will be successful. It's a completely different game.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10404
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 186 times
- Been thanked: 701 times
What determines failure as a coach???
a Premiership??
Was Ross Lyon a Failure......why did Freo pay so much for a failure
Because your comment is contradictory.....
GT never coached a Grand Final......let alone a Premiership
Eade and Ayres did coach in Grand Finals.....both have a better than 50% win/loss.....gt does not....
a Premiership??
Was Ross Lyon a Failure......why did Freo pay so much for a failure
Because your comment is contradictory.....
GT never coached a Grand Final......let alone a Premiership
Eade and Ayres did coach in Grand Finals.....both have a better than 50% win/loss.....gt does not....
- Dal_Santos_Gal
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5158
- Joined: Fri 18 Mar 2005 9:38pm
- Location: In the Saints Year Unknown Premiership Cup
- Contact:
its interesting how the knockers of Ayres are so in favor with Watters who has not coached an AFL game. Since when does an Untried coach equal a premiership!
Yes Ayres has not won an AFL premiership but neither had a few big named coaches before they went to a second or even third club.
I think what he has managed to achieve this year what really is classed as almost impossible. That is to go the whole year undefeated deserves a little bit of credit.
So what if he has been out of the AFL for 4 years, doesn't mean he is out of touch with the modern game.
Yes Ayres has not won an AFL premiership but neither had a few big named coaches before they went to a second or even third club.
I think what he has managed to achieve this year what really is classed as almost impossible. That is to go the whole year undefeated deserves a little bit of credit.
So what if he has been out of the AFL for 4 years, doesn't mean he is out of touch with the modern game.
In Ross Get lost!
I am excited to stay at St Kilda and this is a great result for the Club and all our fans. I’m proud to be part of the Saints and am pleased to be playing football with the Clubâ€
I am excited to stay at St Kilda and this is a great result for the Club and all our fans. I’m proud to be part of the Saints and am pleased to be playing football with the Clubâ€
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 535
- Joined: Sun 12 Jun 2011 1:31pm
And given the sheer competence of our Board, I have an uneasy feeling that something like that may happen. Oh! Dearstkfc1 wrote:Said it on another thread.
Have heard, from a usually reliable source with links to the club that he is
under serious consideration for a coaching role in some capacity.
Obviously waiting till this weekend is over before starting talks,but the
feelers have been put out apparently.
- Con Gorozidis
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23532
- Joined: Thu 19 Jun 2008 4:04pm
- Has thanked: 100 times
- Been thanked: 78 times
How did I get dragged in to being an ayres supporter. I didn't start the thread.
I just said I respected the bloke. People saying he is a cabbage etc are being miles too harsh.
For the record watters has 2 wafl flags and I'm more than happy to get him.
Neil craig and dean laidley are both working at afl clubs next year. Im just saying ayres would be no different to them in some capacity.
I never said he should be senior coach. Just that if we employed him in some capacity I am sure he could contribute and bring something to the table.
He's not a complete numpty. He's probably pretty good.
I just said I respected the bloke. People saying he is a cabbage etc are being miles too harsh.
For the record watters has 2 wafl flags and I'm more than happy to get him.
Neil craig and dean laidley are both working at afl clubs next year. Im just saying ayres would be no different to them in some capacity.
I never said he should be senior coach. Just that if we employed him in some capacity I am sure he could contribute and bring something to the table.
He's not a complete numpty. He's probably pretty good.
- desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10404
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 186 times
- Been thanked: 701 times
both teams went backwards under ayres. good lists too - the crows immediately improved when he got the boot. there's the failure. booted!BigMart wrote:What determines failure as a coach???
a Premiership??
Was Ross Lyon a Failure......why did Freo pay so much for a failure
Because your comment is contradictory.....
GT never coached a Grand Final......let alone a Premiership
Eade and Ayres did coach in Grand Finals.....both have a better than 50% win/loss.....gt does not....
no one else came calling. vfli is a fair whack under sanfl level, let alone afl.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
- desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10404
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 186 times
- Been thanked: 701 times
Come on guys
Just have a look at the teams.....most players playing VFL dont get drafted because they are drafted....
VFL teams consist of either afl players, ex afl players or future afl players....
Even a vfl team with no AFL listed players still beats the other two.....
Isnt Michael Rix one of the best players in the WAFL.....the 4 ruckmen in todays game were all better players than a 31yo Rix
Crowds....what has that to do with anything??
People have up to 5 games of AFL to think about in victoria and their afl team plays in victoria 17 out pf 22 weeks pre year....interstate teams play away fortnightly
Money....most vfl players are paid by afl teams as they are listed
And BTW
i am NOT victorian
Just have a look at the teams.....most players playing VFL dont get drafted because they are drafted....
VFL teams consist of either afl players, ex afl players or future afl players....
Even a vfl team with no AFL listed players still beats the other two.....
Isnt Michael Rix one of the best players in the WAFL.....the 4 ruckmen in todays game were all better players than a 31yo Rix
Crowds....what has that to do with anything??
People have up to 5 games of AFL to think about in victoria and their afl team plays in victoria 17 out pf 22 weeks pre year....interstate teams play away fortnightly
Money....most vfl players are paid by afl teams as they are listed
And BTW
i am NOT victorian