Lyon press conference?

[Johnny Member]

So on the whole, it seems as if Drain -while he was at the club - was largely in charge of list management, but the picture is a bit blurred.

And that's why I don't think the concept of a List Manager can work.

It surely must be up to the coach. The List Manager (if required) should be told by the coach what type of player he wants, or even the actual player he wants.

The coach is the one with the game plan, so he has to be the one choosing his list.


It's like coming up with a design for a house, that if to work correctly must be built to the absolute letter - but then letting someone else head off to Bunnings to choose all your tools and materials on their own accord!

[Dr Spaceman]

It was Drain who made the announcement - I've got my parties mixed up. Fraser's role was in "discovering" Walsh. They sold his signing as justification for letting pick 16 go for Lovett.

I thought Walsh was "discovered" by Kim Duthie's ex

[InkerSaint]

I have it on reasonable authority that the club placed the blame for the Lovett fiasco squarely on the shoulders of Drain.

It surely wasn't Archie Fraser talking about Walsh. As I recall it, Archie was gone from the club from the end of the 2008 season. It was Drain again: "good as a first round draft pick". And also Ricky Nixon, who "talent-spotted" Walsh. Still, Walsh might still turn out to be good: it's clearly difficult to know at this point in time.

As for Lyon's role: I find it difficult to believe that Lyon wasn't personally responsible for the decisions to recruit Schneider and Dempster. We were also rumoured at some stage to have made plays for O'Keeffe and Kennelly: perhaps Lyon was involved again.

Drain took public credit for getting Farren Ray and "rediscovering" Dawson. But he seemed to disappear into the background in relation to the Luke Ball saga.

So on the whole, it seems as if Drain -while he was at the club - was largely in charge of list management, but the picture is a bit blurred.

Most of that is spot on. But Walsh was Fraser's "find", having known Walsh's father through sports connections in the UK. Nixon "kept an eye" on his progress.

By the way, Fraser was a senior executive with which company that bought out a business owned by a St. Kilda executive?

[Johnny Member]

You are absolutely right about things having not been done correctly at the club. And the point is - Lyon is a part of the solution.

But plenty on here were heralding the recruitment of Drain as 'List Manager' in exactly the same way.

Apparently that was the way a 'modern' footy dept needed to be.

[InkerSaint]

But plenty on here were heralding the recruitment of Drain as 'List Manager' in exactly the same way.

Apparently that was the way a 'modern' footy dept needed to be.

Haven't looked. Is it relevant to Lyon's responsibilities or otherwise for the state of the playing list?

[meher baba]

I have it on reasonable authority that the club placed the blame for the Lovett fiasco squarely on the shoulders of Drain.

It surely wasn't Archie Fraser talking about Walsh. As I recall it, Archie was gone from the club from the end of the 2008 season. It was Drain again: "good as a first round draft pick". And also Ricky Nixon, who "talent-spotted" Walsh. Still, Walsh might still turn out to be good: it's clearly difficult to know at this point in time.

As for Lyon's role: I find it difficult to believe that Lyon wasn't personally responsible for the decisions to recruit Schneider and Dempster. We were also rumoured at some stage to have made plays for O'Keeffe and Kennelly: perhaps Lyon was involved again.

Drain took public credit for getting Farren Ray and "rediscovering" Dawson. But he seemed to disappear into the background in relation to the Luke Ball saga.

So on the whole, it seems as if Drain -while he was at the club - was largely in charge of list management, but the picture is a bit blurred.

Most of that is spot on. But Walsh was Fraser's "find", having known Walsh's father through sports connections in the UK. Nixon "kept an eye" on his progress.

By the way, Fraser was a senior executive with which company that bought out a business owned by a St. Kilda executive?

I give up. Who

[Johnny Member]

But plenty on here were heralding the recruitment of Drain as 'List Manager' in exactly the same way.

Apparently that was the way a 'modern' footy dept needed to be.

Haven't looked. Is it relevant to Lyon's responsibilities or otherwise for the state of the playing list?

It's relevant though, if people want to keep the coach because he brings these ideas with him.

The 'list manager' and the recruitment of Drain was attributed to Lyon, the same as the Pelchen is being attributed to him.

The first one failed. So if it was him (and I doubt it was) then why so much faith in him this time around?


For what it's worth, I doubt that he makes these types of calls anyway. And the club really is up the s*** if it takes a coach to start designing the footy dept.!

That's why we vote for a Board.

[InkerSaint]

I give up. Who

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18974757.html

[InkerSaint]

The 'list manager' and the recruitment of Drain was attributed to Lyon, the same as the Pelchen is being attributed to him.

http://about.theage.com.au/cmspage.php? ... ersion=136

The drive to appoint Drain predates Lyon.

[Johnny Member]

The 'list manager' and the recruitment of Drain was attributed to Lyon, the same as the Pelchen is being attributed to him.

http://about.theage.com.au/cmspage.php? ... ersion=136

The drive to appoint Drain predates Lyon.

But we didn't get him then.

And both those guys were gone when Drain was appointed. When Lyon arrived, Ken Sheldon was in that role.

[InkerSaint]

http://about.theage.com.au/cmspage.php? ... ersion=136

The drive to appoint Drain predates Lyon.

But we didn't get him then.

And both those guys were gone when Drain was appointed. When Lyon arrived, Ken Sheldon was in that role.

Yes, but Fraser was still there.

And here's Fraser's early connection to St. Kilda.

http://au.linkedin.com/pub/archie-fraser/34/a12/285
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/o ... Id=1177994

[Johnny Member]

http://about.theage.com.au/cmspage.php? ... ersion=136

The drive to appoint Drain predates Lyon.

But we didn't get him then.

And both those guys were gone when Drain was appointed. When Lyon arrived, Ken Sheldon was in that role.

Yes, but Fraser was still there.

And here's Fraser's early connection to St. Kilda.

http://au.linkedin.com/pub/archie-fraser/34/a12/285
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/o ... Id=1177994

Hang on, I'm not sure we're evenn on the same page here.


All I'm saying is....

The decision to get a Footy Manager was seen to be the neccessity of the modern game. But it never worked.

The coach should choose his list. There's no way someone can choose a coach's playing list for them, then simply tell them to go out and coach them.

Lyon can't take credit for the setup of the footy dept. Why is it his call? And if it is, why has it taken him 5 years to make it happen? and what does the Board do during all of this?

[meher baba]

I give up. Who

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18974757.html

Well there's something I never previously knew.

So that was the connection to Fraser and that was perhaps why we went for a CEO with absolutely no background in football (at least of the AFL variety).

I'd forgotten all about his involvement in initially bringing Walsh to the club. Well, if Tommy turns out well, that will be one lasting positive thing Fraser did for the club.

The rest of the Archie Fraser story is a bit of an untidy one. First of all he orchestrated the sacking of Thomas in a way that can hardly be said to have been "clinical" in its precision. Then a couple of staff complained to Demetriou that Fraser was bullying them (fairly or otherwise, I don't know). Then Fraser was at the centre of a bad-tempered public kerfuffle about our future at Moorabbin: clearly under a deal of provocation, but it did seem to be becoming a bit of a pattern.

Then he suddenly turned on Butterss and stabbed him in the back, actively lobbying for Westaway and co: which was a rather odd thing for a CEO to do. And then he unexpectedly "moved on" (voluntarily or otherwise) to a job in the soccer world that only seemed to last 5 minutes.

What's he doing nowadays, I wonder?

[Teflon]

I give up. Who

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18974757.html

I'd forgotten all about his involvement in initially bringing Walsh to the club. Well, if Tommy turns out well, that will be one lasting positive thing Fraser did for the club.

The rest of the Archie Fraser story is a bit of an untidy one. First of all he orchestrated the sacking of Thomas.

so thats 2 good things he did?

[InkerSaint]

The decision to get a Footy Manager was seen to be the neccessity of the modern game. But it never worked.

Either you haven't said what you mean or you are posting utter nonsense. Do the names Geoff Walsh and Neil Balme ring any bells?

[meher baba]

I give up. Who

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-18974757.html

I'd forgotten all about his involvement in initially bringing Walsh to the club. Well, if Tommy turns out well, that will be one lasting positive thing Fraser did for the club.

The rest of the Archie Fraser story is a bit of an untidy one. First of all he orchestrated the sacking of Thomas.

so thats 2 good things he did?

Perhaps (even I in retrospect might now be inclined to agree that Thomas had to go), but the way it was done was very messy. As, in some ways, was the later removal of Butterss.

[Johnny Member]

The decision to get a Footy Manager was seen to be the neccessity of the modern game. But it never worked.

Either you haven't said what you mean or you are posting utter nonsense. Do the names Geoff Walsh and Neil Balme ring any bells?

'Never worked' for us.

[InkerSaint]

'Never worked' for us.

"Poor appointment" if you like, but "never worked"... by what measure... and against what alternative?

You're killing me. I'm going to have to come back to this in a day or so.

[barks4eva]

Fraser orchestrated the move to Seaford!

The single worst thing anyone has ever done to this club in it's entire history since 1873!

And helped get rid of a board who were at the time actively trying to relocate the club back to St kilda or as close to it as possible.

The folly and stupidity of this decision signed off on by the current board will eventually send this club to ruin.

[InkerSaint]

The 'list manager' and the recruitment of Drain was attributed to Lyon, the same as the Pelchen is being attributed to him.

The first one failed. So if it was him (and I doubt it was) then why so much faith in him this time around?


For what it's worth, I doubt that he makes these types of calls anyway. And the club really is up the s*** if it takes a coach to start designing the footy dept.!

That's why we vote for a Board.

Let's go back to this.

The recruitment of Drain is not attributed to Lyon, or if it is, it's falsely attributed. I've provided plenty of evidence to suggest that Drain was Fraser's appointment - as was Sheldon.

And since Sheldon was one of the decision makers in recruiting Lyon, it's ludicrous to suggest that Lyon had anything to do with the creation of Sheldon's role!

You suggest that Malthouse exercises carte blanche at Collingwood and then rubbish the idea of Lyon doing the same at St. Kilda!

And to say the operations manager role "never worked" at St. Kilda is to infer that the role doesn't belong in the club's structure - despite being a standard across the AFL.

As for a coach designing a footy department. Consider that a board probably doesn't want to spend any more money than it has to. If Lyon is agitating for a structure that he worked in at Sydney and saw the benefits of, as well as being in use at the current ladder leaders, why wouldn't the club follow suit?

Which is what Lyon publically said when asked on radio about Pelchen's appointment.

[saintspremiers]

Fraser orchestrated the move to Seaford!

The single worst thing anyone has ever done to this club in it's entire history since 1873!

And helped get rid of a board who were at the time actively trying to relocate the club back to St kilda or as close to it as possible.

The folly and stupidity of this decision signed off on by the current board will eventually send this club to ruin.

This board won't destroy our club. The AFL may if they can't help us get a better stadium deal though.

Seafood is a c**k up, I agree, but won't send us under barks.

[Johnny Member]

The 'list manager' and the recruitment of Drain was attributed to Lyon, the same as the Pelchen is being attributed to him.

The first one failed. So if it was him (and I doubt it was) then why so much faith in him this time around?


For what it's worth, I doubt that he makes these types of calls anyway. And the club really is up the s*** if it takes a coach to start designing the footy dept.!

That's why we vote for a Board.

Let's go back to this.

The recruitment of Drain is not attributed to Lyon, or if it is, it's falsely attributed. I've provided plenty of evidence to suggest that Drain was Fraser's appointment - as was Sheldon.

And since Sheldon was one of the decision makers in recruiting Lyon, it's ludicrous to suggest that Lyon had anything to do with the creation of Sheldon's role!

You suggest that Malthouse exercises carte blanche at Collingwood and then rubbish the idea of Lyon doing the same at St. Kilda!

And to say the operations manager role "never worked" at St. Kilda is to infer that the role doesn't belong in the club's structure - despite being a standard across the AFL.

As for a coach designing a footy department. Consider that a board probably doesn't want to spend any more money than it has to. If Lyon is agitating for a structure that he worked in at Sydney and saw the benefits of, as well as being in use at the current ladder leaders, why wouldn't the club follow suit?

Which is what Lyon publically said when asked on radio about Pelchen's appointment.

Man, I have no idea what you're arguing about.


All I've said (or intended to say) is that I believe the coach should choose his list. And I believe they actually do.

[InkerSaint]

All I've said (or intended to say) is that I believe the coach should choose his list. And I believe they actually do.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/g ... 6135375567

GREATER Western Sydney coach Kevin Sheedy has not discounted providing a lifeline to troubled full-forward Brendan Fevola.

Sheedy, who admitted he left recruiting to football operations manager Graeme "Gubby" Allan, said he has spoken to the exiled former Carlton and Brisbane goal-kicker but would leave a decision to management.

[Johnny Member]

All I've said (or intended to say) is that I believe the coach should choose his list. And I believe they actually do.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/g ... 6135375567

GREATER Western Sydney coach Kevin Sheedy has not discounted providing a lifeline to troubled full-forward Brendan Fevola.

Sheedy, who admitted he left recruiting to football operations manager Graeme "Gubby" Allan, said he has spoken to the exiled former Carlton and Brisbane goal-kicker but would leave a decision to management.

Yeah, as I said I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time!

But how is Allan going to recruit someone without knowing the ins and outs and details of what Sheedy is intending to do with them?

ie. why on earth would we recruit Lovett, when Lyon shudders at the thought of someone taking the game on, breaking lines, not holding tackles and actually running forward of the contest!

Why would we recruit Tommy Walsh then not play him for 2 years!

These types of scenarios could only arise when someone other than the coach is recruiting these guys.


In the above situation you've pointed out, there must be an incredibly strong trust between Allan and Sheedy, to ensure the players that are being recruited fit in with what the head coach wants. If not, the whole exercise is dangerous!


Who knows, maybe the club wants someone else to recruit for Lyon - and perhaps he doesn't want that? Perhaps he wants to pick his own players?


I certainly don't know. All I know is that Malthouse's son told me how it works at Collingwood.