I love Ross, But..

[Wrote for Luck]

Agree we need to improve but Blake in doesn't inspire this. If Walsh is good enough for emergency now, put him in now. Blake was dropped for a reason. I remember the disappointment when Blake came in last game against Geelong - and we looked old and sh*tty - so it was justified. That's why there is resentment now. If Walsh does play tonight, all this discussion is perfectly validated.

[joffaboy]

. Blake was dropped for a reason.

Blake wasn't dropped.

[spert]

Leo J

Our game plan has failed in one area... forward pressure in all the 3 recent GF's.

Our biggest improvement will come once we find a way - and the right combination of quick players to harass , tackle and chase the opposition half back lines... to stop the frequent and easy rebound.

In the 09 GF imo it was bad kicking that cost us.

In the drawn GF it went pretty well also.

The 2nd GF not so much.

As I said I'm pretty confident it will hold up, provided we don't get anymore injuries.

Judge it from WC on wards, we'll see anyway.

What lost the GFs for us was the forward line got beaten by their opponents. Pretty hard to win a premiership when your forward line doesn't turn up for work!

[Leo.J]

Leo J

Our game plan has failed in one area... forward pressure in all the 3 recent GF's.

Our biggest improvement will come once we find a way - and the right combination of quick players to harass , tackle and chase the opposition half back lines... to stop the frequent and easy rebound.

In the 09 GF imo it was bad kicking that cost us.

In the drawn GF it went pretty well also.

The 2nd GF not so much.

As I said I'm pretty confident it will hold up, provided we don't get anymore injuries.

Judge it from WC on wards, we'll see anyway.

What lost the GFs for us was the forward line got beaten by their opponents. Pretty hard to win a premiership when your forward line doesn't turn up for work!

We might have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Leo.J]

Before I bow out of this one, have a look at these.

Stats can be misleading, but imo they seem to back up my memory afaic.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/game ... 90926.html

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/game ... 00925.html

WARNING THESE IMAGES MAY OFFEND SOME VIEWERS.

[samoht]

5 Maxwell, Nick 10 5 7 17
8 OBrien, Harry 9 4 5 14

20 Reid, Ben 8 4 7 15
39 Shaw, Heath 21 5 3 24

13 Thomas, Dale 17 8 9 26


Okay .. if you have a look at the stats of 5 of Collingwood's backline players above .. in the drawn GF1.
they are pretty impressive stats considering Swan only had 21 possessions and Pendlebury 19 !!

Shaw and Thomas run and carry - so their 50 possessions hurt us big time !!
The GF2 half back /backline stats were even more impressive.

Also have a look at Milburne, Corey and Enright's stats - 25. 29 and 22 respectively !!

We've given the half back lines free rein .. and that's where we lost the GF's.
We need to find the right players to pressure the opposition half back lines... and our game plan failed in this key area.
RL needs to get this right ! ,, this is not a time to stand still we need to improve this year in this key area.

[hungry for a premiership]

Its times like this that I start to doubt the man!
His unwillingness for change or for anything different is our achilles heel.
Before you all say "our yung kids aren't up to it" and all the other usual responses just think about it.

Both Collingwood and Geelong show that they are open to playing young kids. Vardy, Christianson, Sidebottom, Beams, Fasolo.
Yeah it can be risky if they don't come up, but at least they get the experience and its a carrot in front of them. They know that if they play well they will get selected.
Last year Collingwood refused to select blokes like Medhurst and Lockyer in favour of the younger guys and it worked.

Last year, Ross kept playing Eddy and Mcqualter both were out of form and not doing to much but kept getting played because we were winning. It seems that if we are winning to Ross that means everyone is playing good. Which obviously isnt true there is always blokes pushing to play better in the twos.
Anyway Eddy got delisted after last year and I thought he might of seen his flaw. But then with selected Blake today its just going conservate. Im not saying Blakes not worth a selection you always know what you will get.
But Tommy has been in the best numerous times and has a future in front of him, Why not blood him just put him in there and leave him there.

The simple fact is, Ross is a conservative coach - not that there's anything wrong with that. It's easy to say that our lack of flair cost us a premiership or two, but without the defensive gameplan that Ross implemented we may well have not even been there at the summit in the first place.

Unfortunately for all of us, though, we just so happened to be unlucky on GF day two years in a row, we weren't able to be attacking enough on GF day, so the ultimate question remains unresolved and easy fodder for internet hacks: "Is Ross Lyon's conservative approach good enough to win a premiership?"

In my humble opinion, I think that Ross himself has been learning and developing and becoming a better coach with every year he coaches, and if there is anyone who has learnt a lesson from those losses, it is him. He's becoming quite the old pro, is our Ross, an experienced, wise, veteran coach with a history of success, and there is no one better suited to lead the St.Kilda football club to their next flag. What would you prefer? A flag or an "attacking" brand of football???

The Walsh issue is one of those invariable events that is bound to happen as a result of Ross's conservatism. This is one of those ones where he appears to have pushed the conservative approach to breaking point and is starting to raise the ire of supporters as a result.


I personally believe Ross made some critical errors in GF '09 and the post season. I also believe he knows it, and has learnt from it. And I do agree that Walsh should get some game time this year. But now that we're likely to see september action, and with the new director of football joining the club, I'd guess it's more than likely that it will be the status quo for the remainder of this year and at years end we'll see a biggish cleanout and revamp of the list with guys like Walsh getting regularish gigs.

[Leo.J]

5 Maxwell, Nick 10 5 7 17
8 OBrien, Harry 9 4 5 14

20 Reid, Ben 8 4 7 15
39 Shaw, Heath 21 5 3 24

13 Thomas, Dale 17 8 9 26


Okay .. if you have a look at the stats of 5 of Collingwood's backline players above .. in the drawn GF1.
they are pretty impressive stats considering Swan only had 21 possessions and Pendlebury 19 !!

Shaw and Thomas run and carry - so their 50 possessions hurt us big time !!

Also have a look at Milburne, Corey and Enright's stats - 25. 29 and 22 respectively !!

We've given the half back lines free rein .. and that's where we lost the GF's.
We need to find the right players to pressure the opposition half back lines.

Thats the way you see it.

I see that in both games we had the same or more shots at goal than the opposition.

In the first we kicked poorly.

In the 2nd we kicked kicked pretty well.

Our backs would of had more stats than the Filth defenders in GF 1 2010, you could argue that their lack of pressure nearly cost them the flag based on that stat.

I actually think our problem in our our forward line was our predictability, not our forward pressure.

When we're in form that is

[samoht]

Our inability to control the opposition half back lines and the damaging rebound has cost us - big time.
We need to improve in this key area.

If we ignore it again - it'll be to our detriment once more.

.. whereas shooting at goal is always a Russian roulette ... luckily we were more accurate than Collingwood in GF1.

We seem to somewhat control the damage of opposition key midfielders - but their half back lines get us at the end.

[Leo.J]

Our inability to control the opposition half back lines and the damaging rebound has cost us - big time.
We need to improve in this key area.

.. whereas shooting at goal is always a Russian roulette ... luckily we were more accurate than Collingwood in GF1.

They had 7 rushed behinds in that score.

I agree we need to be better at that aspect of our game, but I don't think it was the main issue. And I think we have improved in that area in the last few weeks, last week being an exception (with out Rooey).

I do believe that the way to defeating the Filth is to nullify their defence more so than any part of their line up.

One way of doing that is being less predictable so they can't drop off their opponents like Maxwell does so well.

Both Geelong and the Filth did get alot of F50 rebounds because we went to Rooey far too often, and when he was not the best option.

That said I still belive our forward line performed pretty well in the first 2 GF's, in the 3rd you are spot on. They ran it out with ease, we fell apart.

[Leo.J]

We seem to somewhat control the damage of opposition key midfielders - but their half back lines get us at the end.

That tends to be the way of modern footy, all the good side when in form get most of their drive from the half back line, us included.

Our forward structures has been a work in progress, with the inclusion of Gamble, Jack Steven, and Armo moving through that zone.

As I said judge us from the WC game onwards, it will get more polished.

[gringo]

get rid of the conservative and bring in Thommo, he didn't bog down with defence, just scored, would bring the mascot in for a run just for a bit of a shake up. That's what we like the old school s*** that didn't have this tiring working hard for wins thing.