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rodgerfox
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Post: # 901306Post rodgerfox »

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
Personally I'd disagree regarding those things and our 2005 team (except for the injury plague), let alone the 2009 edition.

Could you please share some examples of your analysis being played out? Clearly I'm not a discerning enough viewer, I'm afraid that the only one I could tenuously identify would be Milne and pressure... though I think some would call that a case of overcomplicating a simple thing: a player having a shocker.

Otherwise, I simply can't remember any of the things you allude to above even occurring to me during the grand final...
Sorry, but your post doesn't make sense to me.

Could you please reword it.


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BAM! (shhhh)
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Post: # 901314Post BAM! (shhhh) »

rodgerfox wrote:
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
Personally I'd disagree regarding those things and our 2005 team (except for the injury plague), let alone the 2009 edition.

Could you please share some examples of your analysis being played out? Clearly I'm not a discerning enough viewer, I'm afraid that the only one I could tenuously identify would be Milne and pressure... though I think some would call that a case of overcomplicating a simple thing: a player having a shocker.

Otherwise, I simply can't remember any of the things you allude to above even occurring to me during the grand final...
Sorry, but your post doesn't make sense to me.

Could you please reword it.
Sure:

Can you please provide some examples for your 5 theories on the Saints problems. I can't recall seeing anything myself which would make me agree with your conclusions, but that doesn't mean you're wrong.

Would it help if I were more stand-offish in my questioning?


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rodgerfox
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Post: # 901327Post rodgerfox »

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
Personally I'd disagree regarding those things and our 2005 team (except for the injury plague), let alone the 2009 edition.

Could you please share some examples of your analysis being played out? Clearly I'm not a discerning enough viewer, I'm afraid that the only one I could tenuously identify would be Milne and pressure... though I think some would call that a case of overcomplicating a simple thing: a player having a shocker.

Otherwise, I simply can't remember any of the things you allude to above even occurring to me during the grand final...
Sorry, but your post doesn't make sense to me.

Could you please reword it.
Sure:

Can you please provide some examples for your 5 theories on the Saints problems. I can't recall seeing anything myself which would make me agree with your conclusions, but that doesn't mean you're wrong.

Would it help if I were more stand-offish in my questioning?
:)
No, although I guess I have become more accustomed to aggressive questioning!


Our ruckmen were ordinary on GF day. And they were up against a very average ruck outfit. The main reason they were ordinary was that they were injured and pretty much spent by GF day.
When they were recruited this was a risk, and although we had apparently 'fixed our ruck problem' - as it turned out the reservations were correct when it mattered.

We have a few players who have been questioned on their ability in big games. Milne is one of them. They were average on the GF, and that's being kind.

Our recruits - Schneider, Dawson and Dempster had their value questioned. They were all poor on GF day and beaten.

We couldn't put Geelong away. We showed mental weakness. We showed this back as far as GT's reign.
It happened on GF day. We were mentally fragile when it mattered.
Geelong weren't.

We slaughtered Geelong on the inside 50s, yet only had 3 more shots at goal. Roo was beaten, therefore we couldn't score.
We were glaringly reliant on him and it showed when he had a poor game and we were unable to capitalise on our large amount of Inside 50s.


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Post: # 901335Post rexy »

I do hope that we are more ambitious at the selection table this year, I would like to see McEvoy favoured if it is a close call between him and one of Gardiner or King for instance.
I would also like to see players rewarded for good games at Sandy more often, dont think it hurts to have one or two changes every week between the guys fighting for the last 2 spots, never seems to have hurt Geelong.

All easy to say in hindsight though, and may be wrong anyway??


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Post: # 901345Post Finna »

Rodgerfox wrote:
Suspect key defenders.

Coping with injury.

Reliance on Roo.

Mentally fragile players.

Players not handling the big stage.



We won't know until late September whether any of this has been addressed.
Does this mean that we have to listen to this until the end of September?

Fox, if we do happen to do the unthinkable and go one further this year will that be the end of it?

Some interesting threads on this site just simply become unreadable and incredibly boring :roll:

P.S. - can someone please give me a tip on how to use the quote command properly....


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rexy
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Post: # 901355Post rexy »

Finna wrote:Rodgerfox wrote:
Suspect key defenders.

Coping with injury.

Reliance on Roo.

Mentally fragile players.

Players not handling the big stage.



We won't know until late September whether any of this has been addressed.
Does this mean that we have to listen to this until the end of September?

Fox, if we do happen to do the unthinkable and go one further this year will that be the end of it?

Some interesting threads on this site just simply become unreadable and incredibly boring :roll:

P.S. - can someone please give me a tip on how to use the quote command properly....
Looks like you are using the quote function fine mate.

Dont see how RF having a different opinion to you makes the post unreadable though, I havent read a lot of your stuff but you have some great thoughts and opinion, dont get sucked in to personalising the defense of your opinion. Listen to other points of view, consider them and respond with fact related argument if you disagree. Makes the whole thing much more enjoyable IMO.

RF has some strange ideas (no offence) and I dont agree with everything he writes, but he is never abusive ar negative without actually providing a reason.


Maybe this year?
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markp
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Post: # 901356Post markp »

Finna wrote:Rodgerfox wrote:
Suspect key defenders.

Coping with injury.

Reliance on Roo.

Mentally fragile players.

Players not handling the big stage.



We won't know until late September whether any of this has been addressed.
Does this mean that we have to listen to this until the end of September?

Fox, if we do happen to do the unthinkable and go one further this year will that be the end of it?

Some interesting threads on this site just simply become unreadable and incredibly boring :roll:

P.S. - can someone please give me a tip on how to use the quote command properly....
Just click 'quote' at the top right hand corner (when you're logged in) of the post you wish to quote, then type your reply underneath....


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Post: # 901359Post Finna »

markp wrote:
Finna wrote:Rodgerfox wrote:
Suspect key defenders.

Coping with injury.

Reliance on Roo.

Mentally fragile players.

Players not handling the big stage.



We won't know until late September whether any of this has been addressed.
Does this mean that we have to listen to this until the end of September?

Fox, if we do happen to do the unthinkable and go one further this year will that be the end of it?

Some interesting threads on this site just simply become unreadable and incredibly boring :roll:

P.S. - can someone please give me a tip on how to use the quote command properly....
Just click 'quote' at the top right hand corner (when you're logged in) of the post you wish to quote, then type your reply underneath....
Thanks markp.....Funny I never noticed that one in the corner.

My first proper quote after 100 odd posts cheers.


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markp
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Post: # 901360Post markp »

Saints43 wrote:
markp wrote:
Finna wrote:Rodgerfox wrote:
Suspect key defenders.

Coping with injury.

Reliance on Roo.

Mentally fragile players.

Players not handling the big stage.



We won't know until late September whether any of this has been addressed.
Does this mean that we have to listen to this until the end of September?

Fox, if we do happen to do the unthinkable and go one further this year will that be the end of it?

Some interesting threads on this site just simply become unreadable and incredibly boring :roll:

P.S. - can someone please give me a tip on how to use the quote command properly....
Just click 'quote' at the top right hand corner (when you're logged in) of the post you wish to quote, then type your reply underneath....
Make sure you are good and angry first. They never tell you that...
Oh yeah Finna, by 'reply' I meant 'vitriolic agenda filled rant'.

Happy posting. :wink:


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Post: # 901362Post maverick »

rodgerfox wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
I think it's fair to say that if, after 4 years at the helm we still have the same problems that existed when he arrived, that he has failed.

.
The same problems 4 years on?

Like non-existant rucks?

Like infighting with the Board, our VFL affiliate and others internally.

A midfield with many oldies about to retire with no real repacements...

Like no rookies since Milne to have been groomed into a senior player..

Like lack of 4 quarter efforts...

Like no game plan other than the one copied off the Lions with no real Plan B?
Well yes.

This is precisely my point.

In the GF, our rucks got murdered.

Our midfield went flat when our 29yo midfielder was tagged out of it.

We faded badly in the last 10 minutes of the match.

Our Rookies and recruits were very average in the GF.


So although the area you listed above weren't what I raised, it's supported my point. We won't know whether or not we've improved or learnt anything until late September.


What I've said is really simple and I can't see how anyone can be aguiing against it - we won't know until late September whether or not Lyon and the players have improved or learnt anything from last year.
Our rucks were murdered, really? Didn't see Ottens or Blake in the best.
Someone must have got the ball inside 50 60 times, if it wasn't our mids who was it?
Jones had a good GF

If Schneider had of kicked straight he would of been the best recruit ever, and as you said earlier, Lyon can't be blamed for missing sodas so he must be a success too.


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Post: # 901393Post SainterK »

External ridicule has made me a little paranoid that everytime I maintain that the weather impacted our big guys on GF day, I feel like someone will pick me up and accuse me of making excuses.

However I am convinced that no ruckman in the AFL would have enjoyed or excelled in the conditions that day. Try lugging a big frame and tree trunk legs around a rain sodden MCG for 4 quarters, and tell me again it's because they were inadequate talents to sufficiently fill the ruck role for us in 2010.

Personally I hope Gardiner will take the field come finals time, King and McEvoy can fight between them for the other spot.

I also hope that should we make it, the weather is kind.


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Post: # 901414Post saintsRrising »

rodgerfox wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
I think it's fair to say that if, after 4 years at the helm we still have the same problems that existed when he arrived, that he has failed.

.
The same problems 4 years on?

Like non-existant rucks?

Like infighting with the Board, our VFL affiliate and others internally.

A midfield with many oldies about to retire with no real repacements...

Like no rookies since Milne to have been groomed into a senior player..

Like lack of 4 quarter efforts...

Like no game plan other than the one copied off the Lions with no real Plan B?
Well yes.

This is precisely my point.

In the GF, our rucks got murdered..

So you reckon that Rix and Ackland would have done better? LOL now that would have beena slaughter.

Given the state of the St Kilda ruck divsion when Lyon took over it wasa realtively great effort.

rodgerfox wrote:

Our midfield went flat when our 29yo midfielder was tagged out of it..

Strange...many keen judges reckon that Gram was BOG or equal BOG.

The Cat's midfield is rated as one of the best in history...and yet the Saints basically matched them on the day.If our midfield all went flat the Ctas would have creamed us an won by 10 goals. That is what the Cat's midfield does against "flat" midfields.
rodgerfox wrote:

We faded badly in the last 10 minutes of the match..
One of the most exhausting games in history with from memory the highest takle count in history, all played in the wet andyou are surprised that the players were fatigued in the last 10 minutes?

rodgerfox wrote:
Our Rookies and recruits were very average in the GF..
Lyon and Co. have traded cheap picks to improve the depth of the 22..they were not intended to be the stars of the team.
rodgerfox wrote:
So although the area you listed above weren't what I raised, it's supported my point..

No..at at all. In all the points you raised the 2006 Saints would have been worse and all point to lyon having improved the team.


Oh..and I note that you did not try and argue gameplan.


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Post: # 901448Post barks4eva »

SainterK wrote:External ridicule has made me a little paranoid that everytime I maintain that the weather impacted our big guys on GF day, I feel like someone will pick me up and accuse me of making excuses.

However I am convinced that no ruckman in the AFL would have enjoyed or excelled in the conditions that day. Try lugging a big frame and tree trunk legs around a rain sodden MCG for 4 quarters, and tell me again it's because they were inadequate talents to sufficiently fill the ruck role for us in 2010.

Personally I hope Gardiner will take the field come finals time, King and McEvoy can fight between them for the other spot.

I also hope that should we make it, the weather is kind.
You know I like your practical commonsense and perspicaciousness!


On the rucks though, number one Gardiner with Kossie and McEvoy for support IMHO!

IMHO, King is yesterday's news, back up at best and should NOT have been selected to play in the Grand Final!

A mistake IMHO, but you won't hear me banging on for the last six months about it, because I'm just grateful that we now have a coach who as it happens has invented a game plan the rest of the competition is now trying to copy and one which got us into a Grand Final to begin with and but for a bit of bad luck he would be a premiership coach already!

The reality is as I see it, many things had to go Geelong's way for them to win as it turned out,

1. Pissed down with rain, Geelong are the best wet weather team in the comp and we never play in it, most definitely advantaged them!

2. Riewoldt does an adductor at the final training session!
FAIR DINKUM can we ban Thursday training before a Grand Final and have a longer inhouse team meeting instead!

3. Goddard breaks his collarbone or rather Baker does it for him in the second quarter, at the time Goddard was dominating or at the least was one of our best!

4. Goal Umpire awards a goal when Hawkins hits the post which results in Geelong kicking two goals in twenty seconds from an obvious umpiring error.

5. Many easy goals missed when we had a chance to bury them, to capitalize on our dominance, again I have no doubt the rain contributed towards theses goalkicking errors, with ball handling much more difficult!

6. Geelong kick accurately for the first time in a long time and hardly miss a shot on goal, 7.7 to 7.1 at half time, they were lucky to be that close!

7. Umpire Shaun Ryan is a Geelong supporter grew up barracking for Geelong as a kid, still looks like a kid if you ask me and also happens to be a lawyer, so obviously he cannot be trusted,

Schnieder has his jumper pulled off into Lennox st without the ball thirty five metres out with us still two points ahead and the Geelong supporter calls play on,

similarly, Riewoldt has Taylor grab his shoulder while Scarlett jumps into him front on with no eyes for the ball in the goal square with scores level deep in the last quarter and again no free kick paid!

8. Chapman wins the game and the Norm Smith medal for Geelong, but only managed to play with the aid of a medical procedure that has now been outlawed as illegal!


Anyway, my point is if any one of the above eight things does not happen, then it's very likely St Kilda would have won, Geelong needed everything going their way and it did!

On the thing about the weather!

I was thinking a couple of days ago that the three Grand Finals we've played and lost since 1966 have all been on heavily overcast days in inclement weather!

When we make another one, hopefully this year, can the sun please shine for a change!


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Post: # 901491Post rodgerfox »

saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
I think it's fair to say that if, after 4 years at the helm we still have the same problems that existed when he arrived, that he has failed.

.
The same problems 4 years on?

Like non-existant rucks?

Like infighting with the Board, our VFL affiliate and others internally.

A midfield with many oldies about to retire with no real repacements...

Like no rookies since Milne to have been groomed into a senior player..

Like lack of 4 quarter efforts...

Like no game plan other than the one copied off the Lions with no real Plan B?
Well yes.

This is precisely my point.

In the GF, our rucks got murdered..

So you reckon that Rix and Ackland would have done better? LOL now that would have beena slaughter.

Given the state of the St Kilda ruck divsion when Lyon took over it wasa realtively great effort.

rodgerfox wrote:

Our midfield went flat when our 29yo midfielder was tagged out of it..

Strange...many keen judges reckon that Gram was BOG or equal BOG.

The Cat's midfield is rated as one of the best in history...and yet the Saints basically matched them on the day.If our midfield all went flat the Ctas would have creamed us an won by 10 goals. That is what the Cat's midfield does against "flat" midfields.
rodgerfox wrote:

We faded badly in the last 10 minutes of the match..
One of the most exhausting games in history with from memory the highest takle count in history, all played in the wet andyou are surprised that the players were fatigued in the last 10 minutes?

rodgerfox wrote:
Our Rookies and recruits were very average in the GF..
Lyon and Co. have traded cheap picks to improve the depth of the 22..they were not intended to be the stars of the team.
rodgerfox wrote:
So although the area you listed above weren't what I raised, it's supported my point..

No..at at all. In all the points you raised the 2006 Saints would have been worse and all point to lyon having improved the team.


Oh..and I note that you did not try and argue gameplan.
??

2 things...

"So you reckon that Rix and Ackland would have done better? "

What the hell? How do you figure I reckon that? It's been 4 years since those guys were at the club.
This discussion is about whether or not our issues have been fixed.

You've once again fallen back on the argument of 'but it's better than when GT in charge'.

That doesn't help us. We need it fixed. Lyon has had 4 years. It's not fixed.
It might make you feel better in notching up 'Lyon is better than GT' points, but very few care about that.

And as I've been saying all through this thread - we won't know until late September if it's been fixed.


And secondly...


"Oh..and I note that you did not try and argue gameplan."

Why would I argue game plan? My thoughts on game plans are well known.

I think you may have me confused with someone else.

SrR, I know you think you are some sort of footy guru and an intellectual giant, but if you're going to try to pull off this charade you need to do better than this.

I don't care whether Lyon is better than GT.

Never have, never will.

Never argued either way.

Don't care. Few do.


Most people would prefer the club to win a flag, than to win the battle of Lyon being better than GT.


All I have said in this thread, is that many problems we had when the coach took over still exist. This was evident on GF day.
And, sadly we won't know if they've been fixed or if the coach and players have learnt from GF day, until September this year.

Signs of improvement in R2 don't matter. They didn't matter last year. We will have to wait until September to find out.


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Post: # 901494Post saintsRrising »

rodgerfox wrote:
"So you reckon that Rix and Ackland would have done better? "

What the hell? How do you figure I reckon that? It's been 4 years since those guys were at the club.
This discussion is about whether or not our issues have been fixed.

You've once again fallen back on the argument of 'but it's better than when GT in charge'.

That doesn't help us. We need it fixed. Lyon has had 4 years. It's not fixed.
.
Point 1. Lyon did not have FOUR years to fix the GF rucks. He had THREE!!!


No Rodge. I have gone with the argument of looking for improvement and have seen it.

But if you are going to bag Lyon please at least have the decency to put up what he should have done to have had better rucks on the day?

It's not fixed?? Yes Lyon is meant to snap his fingers and fix EVERTYHING instantaneously.

If one takes a reasonable look at Lyon and his drafting/ trading it has actually addressed many deficiencies and improved the team enough for it's first GF since 97...and one of the best H&A seasons ever.

Is the ruck division better than Lyon found it? Any reasonable judge would say YES.

He has obtained some ok ruckmen to play now and some good prospects for the future.

The previous crew after trading away a good ruckman had one blunder after the other.

Please detail how Lyon in THREE years with the picks he had available could have done better in this regard while also improving the team and the list as much as he had?


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Post: # 901495Post rodgerfox »

saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
"So you reckon that Rix and Ackland would have done better? "

What the hell? How do you figure I reckon that? It's been 4 years since those guys were at the club.
This discussion is about whether or not our issues have been fixed.

You've once again fallen back on the argument of 'but it's better than when GT in charge'.

That doesn't help us. We need it fixed. Lyon has had 4 years. It's not fixed.
.
Point 1. Lyon did not have FOUR years to fix the GF rucks. He had THREE!!!


No Rodge. I have gone with the argument of looking for improvement and have seen it.

But if you are going to bag Lyon please at least have the decency to put up what he should have done to have had better rucks on the day?

It's not fixed?? Yes Lyon is meant to snap his fingers and fix EVERTYHING instantaneously.

If one takes a reasonable look at Lyon and his drafting/ trading it has actually addressed many deficiencies and improved the team enough for it's first GF since 97...and one of the best H&A seasons ever.

Is the ruck division better than Lyon found it? Any reasonable judge would say YES.

He has obtained some ok ruckmen to play now and some good prospects for the future.

The previous crew after trading away a good ruckman had one blunder after the other.

Please detail how Lyon in THREE years with the picks he had available could have done better in this regard while also improving the team and the list as much as he had?
Why did you respond with this stuff to me in this thread?

It has nothing to do with what I've been talking about.


And 'bagging Lyon'? Please. Have a read of what I've been writing.


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Post: # 901498Post saintsRrising »

rodgerfox wrote:


And 'bagging Lyon'? Please. Have a read of what I've been writing.
I have.

Constant bagging and negative criticism without any positive suggested solutions.


And complete skating over of the real reason why the Saints did not win the flag in 09 because you cannot sheet that home to a "coaching error".

I am still waiting for how our rucks could have been better on GF day.
You have it as an error on Lyon's in not fixing it. Please demonstrate how he could have done better?


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Post: # 901500Post rodgerfox »

saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:


And 'bagging Lyon'? Please. Have a read of what I've been writing.
I have.

Constant bagging and negative criticism without any positive suggested solutions.


And complete skating over of the real reason why the Saints did not win the flag in 09 because you cannot sheet that home to a "coaching error".
??

I don't know what you've been reading on this thread. You're on another planet.
saintsRrising wrote: I am still waiting for how our rucks could have been better on GF day.
You have it as an error on Lyon's in not fixing it. Please demonstrate how he could have done better?
Start another thread on it, and it can be discussed there.


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Post: # 901505Post saintsRrising »

rodgerfox wrote:
Start another thread on it, and it can be discussed there.
Which is RF speak for that you do not have the faintest clue..but you will bag Lyon anyway.

No RF it is relevant here. The OP is about Lyon acting in the right way to deliver the best possible outcome for the Saints.

You contend that Lyon has not done enough with the rucks. I am asking you to put up more than cheap hollow words and detail how he as coach could have done better that he has.

From my perspective he has traded well for capable rucks and has traded in good young kids for a future ruck division. He has looked to the present and to the future of our ruck division.

If you believe he has stuffed up our rucks as coach then please detail:

* how
* and what he should have done to have been better in this regard.

If your point has any merit, it should be easy for you to do.

Otherwise it is just the same old RodgerFox 101 of bagging after the fact.


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Post: # 901513Post Joffa 5 »

Saints43 wrote:
Joffa 5 wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
They are things that stood out on GF day. And if they aren't fixed, I'd suspect they could hold us back again.
AFAIK, accuracy in front of goal was THE thing that stood out for me and apparently that has been a focus during the off season.
So you think Riewoldt taking 5 marks and kicking no goals had no effect on the game? Even though the ball was kicked to him so many times that Harry Taylor broke a record for the number of spoils in a game.

During the last quarter Riewoldt sent everyone out of the forward 50.

We dominated that match for so long that it is not funny. We didn't get value for effort. And our effort was worth more than the four or five easy misses we all regret.

To hear that we have worked on goal kicking over the off season is nice but here are some the things that will help us win this year.

A more attacking style of football. Stepped up last year. Targeted to be stepped up again apparently.

Players like Schneider not having their guts hanging over their shorts this year.

Leaving the fodder down back where they get 10 players helping them perform their job every week and getting quality like Goddard (and hopefully Fisher) driving us from further forward.
Not sure what you're getting at here. Everything you wrote would not be an issue had our accuracy in front of goal been better. If joey kicked the ball instead of the ground, if scheids and milney had of kicked those goals, we would have the flag. Then the fact Roo didn't fire on the day would put to rest any thoughts of we're too Roo reliant. If the other players kicked better we would have won the flag virtually without him!


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Post: # 901514Post rodgerfox »

saintsRrising wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
Start another thread on it, and it can be discussed there.
Which is RF speak for that you do not have the faintest clue..but you will bag Lyon anyway.

No RF it is relevant here. The OP is about Lyon acting in the right way to deliver the best possible outcome for the Saints.
Then direct your questions to the OP - not me.

saintsRrising wrote: You contend that Lyon has not done enough with the rucks. I am asking you to put up more than cheap hollow words and detail how he as coach could have done better that he has.

From my perspective he has traded well for capable rucks and has traded in good young kids for a future ruck division. He has looked to the present and to the future of our ruck division.

If you believe he has stuffed up our rucks as coach then please detail:

* how
* and what he should have done to have been better in this regard.

If your point has any merit, it should be easy for you to do.

Otherwise it is just the same old RodgerFox 101 of bagging after the fact.
Again, you're on another planet.

My input to the this thread, is that all the 'rah rah rah' about what we've learnt from the GF loss and how much the players learnt etc. etc. is absolute heresy until September.

Issues that existed 4 years ago, still existed on GF day.

We will not know if anything has been fixed properly until GF day 2010.


Simple.

If you want to start arguing how hard done by Ross Lyon was with the mess he took over and how unbelievable he's been to resurrect it from the ashes, then go for it.

I'm sure there's still a couple of people out there who are keen to talk about that.


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Post: # 901529Post saintsRrising »

rodgerfox wrote: Then direct your questions to the OP - not me.

.
Or in other words you are only here to "troll" the thread rather than address the thread. My "mistake" to try and take things back on topic :roll:

Even in the context of your "troll" the OP's points are all valid as Lyon is clearly not resting on his last years performance and has already been working away at improving the team....and not just on some of the points you raised.

Goal-kicking: Was stated to have beena focus over summer..and gameplan wise in the NAB and the first 2 rounds there also appears to have been tactics employed to achieve shots on goal in better positions.

Better players: While Lovett did not work out it was a clear attempt to improve both goal-kicking and playing personel. There are some other irons in the fire and we will have to see how they pan out. More of our fringe are looking better.

Rucking: More games into the young Ben.

Gameplan: Is not stagnant with some tweaks already on display, both in terms of how the ball is moved and how the forward line sets up.

That just leaves GF Experience for the players. Lyon traded in GF experience and had now also achieved one GF game into many by getting the team there. Not sure what else he can do....
Last edited by saintsRrising on Wed 07 Apr 2010 11:29am, edited 1 time in total.


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Post: # 901532Post SainterK »

Still don't think there was an issue with the ability of the rucks that took the ground on GF day, and I don't see the need for a new discussion given it has been highlighted on this thread as an area in which the coach failed.

I think you will find if Ross had his time again, with the benefit of hindsight of course, he would played Kosi in the ruck and brought in one less tall allowing perhaps a Gwilt or an Armitage to join the squad.

Those who think McEvoy should of played, are not comprehending the situation IMO.


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Post: # 901556Post Moods »

THis business about our rucks playing poorly on GF day is quite strange. Both Ottens and Blake were terrible as well. I wonder why?

Mooney hardly dominated but took two strong grabs and converted well. Hawkins barely did anything and it's well documented that he really only kicked 1 legit goal. Roo imo was clearly the best big man on the ground, despite the fact he had 3 players on him most times he went near it and was restricted with an injury. His 2nd 1/4 especially was great. Gee I wonder why none of the key fwds stood out in this game though? The weather? Nahh.

To say that the same problems were still apparent and reared their head last year is weird to me. If they were so apparent then we wouldn't have made the GF in the first place and won 2 finals on the way.

Of course we rely on Roo to play well and if we make the GF we will definitely be relying on him to have a big game. HE'S OUR BEST PLAYER!! He's also possibly the best player in the whole comp.

What we showed in the GF is that even when Roo is having a relatively quiet game we are more than capable of beating any team. A bit of luck and the flag would have been ours.


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Post: # 901561Post SainterK »

Moods wrote:THis business about our rucks playing poorly on GF day is quite strange. Both Ottens and Blake were terrible as well. I wonder why?

Mooney hardly dominated but took two strong grabs and converted well. Hawkins barely did anything and it's well documented that he really only kicked 1 legit goal. Roo imo was clearly the best big man on the ground, despite the fact he had 3 players on him most times he went near it and was restricted with an injury. His 2nd 1/4 especially was great. Gee I wonder why none of the key fwds stood out in this game though? The weather? Nahh.

To say that the same problems were still apparent and reared their head last year is weird to me. If they were so apparent then we wouldn't have made the GF in the first place and won 2 finals on the way.

Of course we rely on Roo to play well and if we make the GF we will definitely be relying on him to have a big game. HE'S OUR BEST PLAYER!! He's also possibly the best player in the whole comp.

What we showed in the GF is that even when Roo is having a relatively quiet game we are more than capable of beating any team. A bit of luck and the flag would have been ours.
Makes sense to me, I mentioned similar earlier, but it doesn't seem to impact the discussion.


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