Anyone interested in what Grant Thomas thinks?

[bergsone]

FWIW i like GT comments on most things ,and imo he did a reasonable job with the saints


Love me or hate me for my GT comments .I couldnt care less

BET GT THINKS THE SAME

Really some do need to move on

I never get this.

Those who disagree with the spin of GT need to "move on".
Thos who agree with GT have moved on to a more enlightened place...

Righto.

I personally didnt agree with GT on all things,and i dont agree with RL on all things,as with all coachs we have had.But i dont want him drawn and quartered every time his name comes up.Unlike some seem to on here.

[GrumpyOne]

When coaching, GT showed he was prepared to think outside the narrow confines of a coach, a trait he has taken to the media with great effect.

He was prepared to question the things that you are not supposed to question in the AFL, i.e. Umpire Egotism. Made several enemies amongst those who were'nt used to having their divine right questioned. But there are no such things as bad questions, only bad answers.

A motivational personality, he engendered either intense support or intense resentment amongst his players. He polarised the supporter base like no other St Kilda coach ever had; witness the debate about him that still lingers on this forum.

As a footy coach however he had one fatal flaw; a self-belief that made him unwilling to accept advice from others. He, and he alone was in charge; he would not accept an opposite view to his own from his assistants.

So when the team failed to achieve what it was quite capable of, he was not able to critically self-assess his performance, which quite rightly led to his sacking.

I still have a quote of his regarding leadership up on my wall. I drag it out periodically at staff meetings.

You can either take the victim approach and accept the excuses, or you can take responsibility and accept that the gap needs to be filled with leadership.

[markp]

So fess up, who is DB from Sydney?

St Kilda ain't that boy's club anymore
Posted by: DB, Sydney, on 3/03/2010 6:50:33

Your comments about football are about as versatile as your game plan. Everything always comes back to St Kilda with you. I've always thought that you had clear that you have a man-crush on Ball, that ludicrously over-inflated contract you put had him on speaks for itself and I'm sure that if you were still coach that he would still have a nice home at the boys-club called Moorabbin. In fact, that's you're good for in football these days, writing about what you would do if you were still coach. I'm just waiting for that annual token article that usually appears between rounds four- to-twelve, where you'll again remind everyone that Butters was a big bully and that he pushed you out, that 07, 08 and 09 were wasted seasons and you'll even add a little footnote about how St Kilda should have given Ball anything he wanted, after he plays three good game in a row for the Pies. Remember Grant, you heard it from me first.

Another one straight from the keyboard of plugger66!

He obviously just defends GT around here to upset some people....

[BAM! (shhhh)]

GT is - and always will be - a highly regarded member of the St Kilda family.

He also works in the media and writes informatively for NineMSN and does an excellent job on Footy Classified.

If you want to post his views, go for it. Only the bizarre types - who can't help but blame him for everything - will have a problem with it.

The rest of us are thankful for his contribution to the football club and wish him all the best in his future endeavors.

Those who don't like him can ignore him. Those who rate what he thinks can read on.

CLAP CLAP CLAP

Best I've seen it put.

For mine, agreed with his take on Free Agency, disagreed strongly with his take on Andrew Lovett, and didn't agree with the Luke Ball stuff, but found it absolutely fascinating to read (Luke Ball was, from what I understand, a consumer of the GT kool-aid).

One of the key differences I see in management style between Lyon and Thomas is that Lyon is an asset-manager (ice in his veins, play it like a "business")Thomas was a personality manager ("cult-of-personality", some guys run through walls for him, more likely to give the rousing speech at 3q time, less likely to win a game by shifting his ruckman into the forward line).

As such, he's always likely to have a different take when one of his clique finds himself on the outer... as an outsider, all I can do is infer why a guy I view as an asset manager (Lyon) doesn't maximise his asset (Ball).

FWIW, I suspect that under Thomas, Ball would have ended up rededicating himself to whatever role was necessary on the team - however the downside would have been that Luke Ball would have been getting similar ground and middle time to Hayes, Dal, Joey in spite of (IMO) being behind them in ability to deliver the Saints gameplan (assuming it's the same under both - which it almost certainly wouldn't be).

Totally agree with Thomas on the community camps... but can't profess any surprise that it's not high on the radar.

[snoopygirl]

Stuff it.... I like GT

me too mate......i like nearly all of our ex coaches....blighty's the exception......

Ditto on Blighty.
Damn I have seen so many coaches.

Gellie, Jezza, Jewell, Baldock, Bomba,Blight, Watson, GT, Lyons ...who did I miss?

Don't remember Alan Jeans Firey?

[Teflon]

FWIW i like GT comments on most things ,and imo he did a reasonable job with the saints


Love me or hate me for my GT comments .I couldnt care less

BET GT THINKS THE SAME

Really some do need to move on

I never get this.

Those who disagree with the spin of GT need to "move on".
Thos who agree with GT have moved on to a more enlightened place...

Righto.

I personally didnt agree with GT on all things,and i dont agree with RL on all things,as with all coachs we have had.But i dont want him drawn and quartered every time his name comes up.Unlike some seem to on here.

Even when hes wrong or some disagree with his views?

Personally, I find Thomas' comments nothing more than a thinly veiled swipe at club/Lyon.

Narcissistic personalities cant help themselves and I defy anyone to suggest Grants greatest fan isnt Grant....

[SainterK]

I have no problem with his views, but I must admit I lean towards the swipe at Lyon theory on this one.

Purely because he titles this particular opinion piece as snapshot of the bigger off-field drama's leading into this season, yet fails to mention Stokes, Hurley, the Carlton booze cruise which all equally dominated the headlines.

[Teflon]

GT is - and always will be - a highly regarded member of the St Kilda family.

He also works in the media and writes informatively for NineMSN and does an excellent job on Footy Classified.

If you want to post his views, go for it. Only the bizarre types - who can't help but blame him for everything - will have a problem with it.

The rest of us are thankful for his contribution to the football club and wish him all the best in his future endeavors.

Those who don't like him can ignore him. Those who rate what he thinks can read on.

CLAP CLAP CLAP

Best I've seen it put.

For mine, agreed with his take on Free Agency, disagreed strongly with his take on Andrew Lovett, and didn't agree with the Luke Ball stuff, but found it absolutely fascinating to read (Luke Ball was, from what I understand, a consumer of the GT kool-aid).

One of the key differences I see in management style between Lyon and Thomas is that Lyon is an asset-manager (ice in his veins, play it like a "business")Thomas was a personality manager ("cult-of-personality", some guys run through walls for him, more likely to give the rousing speech at 3q time, less likely to win a game by shifting his ruckman into the forward line).

As such, he's always likely to have a different take when one of his clique finds himself on the outer... as an outsider, all I can do is infer why a guy I view as an asset manager (Lyon) doesn't maximise his asset (Ball).
FWIW, I suspect that under Thomas, Ball would have ended up rededicating himself to whatever role was necessary on the team - however the downside would have been that Luke Ball would have been getting similar ground and middle time to Hayes, Dal, Joey in spite of (IMO) being behind them in ability to deliver the Saints gameplan (assuming it's the same under both - which it almost certainly wouldn't be).

Totally agree with Thomas on the community camps... but can't profess any surprise that it's not high on the radar.

Thats great.

The "cult of personality" runs the "asset" (Ball) into the ground with a ridiculous, half @ssed approach to fitness and conditioning (while jet setting the club off to London/Sth Africa to make "better people")........and after all that its up to the "ice man asset manager" to somehow pick up the pieces and get bang for his buck that aint there?

Righto.

Id suggest Lyon DID manage the asset......and the asset much preferred to be measured on "personality" rather actual current abilities....

You see Grant view is simple. Keep rounded young men like Luke Ball....pay them exhorbitant salaries that dont align with performance and revel in your wonderful culture......while the Cats win flags with talent.

Sure, throw the sink at Lyon for Lovett but lets be clear - we are in the business of winning football games and flags NOT to be social welfare, cult of personality figures for easily manipulated young men...

Im happy with our culture under Lyon and Im wrapt with our clubs professional, almost system like football that relegates the individual below team and which is now the model for all sides as we head into 2010....

[barks4eva]

Thats great.

The "cult of personality" runs the "asset" (Ball) into the ground with a ridiculous, half @ssed approach to fitness and conditioning (while jet setting the club off to London/Sth Africa to make "better people")........and after all that its up to the "ice man asset manager" to somehow pick up the pieces and get bang for his buck that aint there?

Righto.

Id suggest Lyon DID manage the asset......and the asset much preferred to be measured on "personality" rather actual current abilities....

You see Grant view is simple. Keep rounded young men like Luke Ball....pay them exhorbitant salaries that dont align with performance and revel in your wonderful culture......while the Cats win flags with talent.

Sure, throw the sink at Lyon for Lovett but lets be clear - we are in the business of winning football games and flags NOT to be social welfare, cult of personality figures for easily manipulated young men...

Im happy with our culture under Lyon and Im wrapt with our clubs professional, almost system like football that relegates the individual below team and which is now the model for all sides as we head into 2010....

THIS +1

[loris]

[quote="GrumpyOne"

there are no such things as bad questions, only bad answers.

[/quote]


GO..correct there young man

[Spinner]

Thats great.

The "cult of personality" runs the "asset" (Ball) into the ground with a ridiculous, half @ssed approach to fitness and conditioning (while jet setting the club off to London/Sth Africa to make "better people")........and after all that its up to the "ice man asset manager" to somehow pick up the pieces and get bang for his buck that aint there?

Righto.

Id suggest Lyon DID manage the asset......and the asset much preferred to be measured on "personality" rather actual current abilities....

You see Grant view is simple. Keep rounded young men like Luke Ball....pay them exhorbitant salaries that dont align with performance and revel in your wonderful culture......while the Cats win flags with talent.

Sure, throw the sink at Lyon for Lovett but lets be clear - we are in the business of winning football games and flags NOT to be social welfare, cult of personality figures for easily manipulated young men...

Im happy with our culture under Lyon and Im wrapt with our clubs professional, almost system like football that relegates the individual below team and which is now the model for all sides as we head into 2010....

THIS +1

+2..... Spot on Teflon!

Also, B4E....You had a post earlier on which was great! Good work!

[GrumpyOne]

[quote="GrumpyOne"

there are no such things as bad questions, only bad answers.

GO..correct there young man [/quote]

Thanks Loris.... I haven't been called a young man for over 30 years.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

...

One of the key differences I see in management style between Lyon and Thomas is that Lyon is an asset-manager (ice in his veins, play it like a "business")Thomas was a personality manager ("cult-of-personality", some guys run through walls for him, more likely to give the rousing speech at 3q time, less likely to win a game by shifting his ruckman into the forward line).

As such, he's always likely to have a different take when one of his clique finds himself on the outer... as an outsider, all I can do is infer why a guy I view as an asset manager (Lyon) doesn't maximise his asset (Ball).
FWIW, I suspect that under Thomas, Ball would have ended up rededicating himself to whatever role was necessary on the team - however the downside would have been that Luke Ball would have been getting similar ground and middle time to Hayes, Dal, Joey in spite of (IMO) being behind them in ability to deliver the Saints gameplan (assuming it's the same under both - which it almost certainly wouldn't be).

Totally agree with Thomas on the community camps... but can't profess any surprise that it's not high on the radar.

Thats great.

The "cult of personality" runs the "asset" (Ball) into the ground with a ridiculous, half @ssed approach to fitness and conditioning (while jet setting the club off to London/Sth Africa to make "better people")........and after all that its up to the "ice man asset manager" to somehow pick up the pieces and get bang for his buck that aint there?

Righto.
...

I think in assigning Thomas the role of narcissistic white ant with an axe to grind, you're way overplaying his influence and vantage point. I think the Luke Ball crit was less about an isolated "I could have run the trade better" than it was the voice of a fan who has just seen one of their favorite players leave their club... for Collingwood...

Thomas was a big Luke Ball fan. Much as I suspect Collingwood will, Luke Ball used to play the engine room, be a fixture at center square ballups, and regularly be 1,2 with Hayes in clearances and tackles.

For mine, I hated seeing Hudghton's last season essentially dissappear into soft tissue injuries. The emergence of Zac Dawson was thus bitter sweet for me. On one hand, he's replacing one of my favourites... on the other, thank god he was there, and the timing could not have been better. History will probably take the dropping of Dal and Milne to be the watershed moment of Lyon's coaching - at the time I thought he was desperate, as he wasn't getting the best out Dal.

Grant Thomas wasn't just criticising Lyon's asset management. Grant Thomas was having a go at the way one of his favourite players had gone from being an inside ball magnet to a guy who could slip to pick 30 in the draft by offering him the same pay he'd already been on...

Fair enough surely. While I disagree, we've seen the same sentiments here from multiple sources.

[saintsRrising]

Grant Thomas was having a go at the way one of his favourite players had gone from being an inside ball magnet to a guy who could slip to pick 30 in the draft by offering him the same pay he'd already been on...

Fair enough surely..

I don't think GT was saying that all

Luke Ball is an outstanding footballer and at a bare minimum should have attracted a prized draft choice ..

Nothing past tense about GT's comment.

IMO head in the sand stuff about the reality of where Ball is now.

[meher baba]

Yawn. The GT haters are at it again. Double yawn.

BAM why do you bother trying to give a balanced assessment. Don't you realize that GT is to blame for everything: not being better than Geelong (never mind that we finished ahead of them most years under GT and haven't since), Ball, Lovett, global warming, the home insulation fiasco: you name it, he did it.

Used to be that he "ruined the list". Never hear that now: the GT-eralist has held up well.

Now it's GT's coaching that was no good.

Personally, I have always hated his hair. I reckon that's where it all went wrong.

[joffaboy]

Grant Thomas was having a go at the way one of his favourite players had gone from being an inside ball magnet to a guy who could slip to pick 30 in the draft by offering him the same pay he'd already been on...

Fair enough surely..

I don't think GT was saying that all

Luke Ball is an outstanding footballer and at a bare minimum should have attracted a prized draft choice ..

Nothing past tense about GT's comment.

IMO head in the sand stuff about the reality of where Ball is now.

I agree - I personally dont think there is, or for that matter every been anything "outstanding" about Luke Ball as a footballer. On the contrary, the reason he was rarely sighted was because of his very play, a tough in and under footballer, who does the grunt work, which by essence, does not allow him to "stand out".

He is excellent at in and under. His execution of disposal, his kicking, and his running, is anything but outstanding.

He is a good in and under, nothing more nothing less, and is not outstanding.

The only outstanding players we have are Riewoldt and Lenny, possibly Dal, and on a very good day, Sam Fisher.

GT incorrectly labels a GOP outstanding in my opinion.

[MCG-Unit]

I think in assigning Thomas the role of narcissistic white ant with an axe to grind, you're way overplaying his influence and vantage point. I think the Luke Ball crit was less about an isolated "I could have run the trade better" than it was the voice of a fan who has just seen one of their favorite players leave their club... for Collingwood...

Thomas was a big Luke Ball fan. Much as I suspect Collingwood will, Luke Ball used to play the engine room, be a fixture at center square ballups, and regularly be 1,2 with Hayes in clearances and tackles.

Grant Thomas wasn't just criticising Lyon's asset management. Grant Thomas was having a go at the way one of his favourite players had gone from being an inside ball magnet to a guy who could slip to pick 30 in the draft by offering him the same pay he'd already been on......

This