Gwilt????

[bergholt]

It has been mentioned that Gwilt is "unproductive as a forward"

If that is the case and we bring in another forward that is "more productive" (ie: more possessions) wouldn't that mean that another forward would become less productive because Gwilt's replacement would be getting more of the ball.

apart from that being a stupid argument, "more productive" doesn't mean "more possessions" for any player, especially forward of the centre. for a forward, it means produces more goals (or scores), one way or the other.

this can be done be kicking them yourself, it can be done by giving off to other players to kick goals, or it can be done by pressuring the defence such that they give up the ball and it causes scoring.

gwilt's kicked 3 goals in 9, ranked 15th in the team, so he's not really kicking them himself. this is negative for productivity.

he's had 6 assists, ranked 7th in the team. this is decent if not amazing, so this is positive for productivity.

and as for pressure, he's had 25 tackles, ranked 12th in a team that tackles very well. that's a pretty low ranking if his entire reason for being in the team is forward pressure. but it's probable that a forward will lay less tackles than a midfielder, so let's not necessarily hold that against him. this is neutral for productivity.

now have a look at another player in the team playing a similar role - andrew mcqualter.

- mcqualter's kicked 8 goals in 9, ranked 6th in the team for goals.
- he's had 5 assists, ranked 12th in the team for assists.
- he's had 36 tackles, ranked 5th in the team for tackles.

so mcqualter, without any fanfare, has contributed (goals + assists) 13 goals as opposed to gwilt's 9, and has combined that with significantly more tackles.

that's what i mean by "more productive".

It really is a shite argument about Gwilt being "unproductive"

Not every forward in the team can get 20+ possessions and 8+ marks and 2+ goals - if that was the case we would win every game by 10+ goals and go thru the season undefeated.

you're right, not every forward can. that doesn't mean we should put up with having one forward who's less productive than the man who could fill his spot.

armo or eddy could come in and be about as productive as mcqualter has been, i reckon. they're better tacklers, better goal-kickers, and can provide a link in the midfield as well as on the forward flank.

i really don't understand how you can argue productivity. structure is the only argument for gwilt.

i like the kid, i really think he's got potential, but at the moment he's not really producing, and at some point this season, that's going to hurt us. probably before round 14.

[CaptainRiewoldt]

give him more time. He could be brilliant by finakls. Only true penetrating kick we have ... he is our DEW. you need dews to win flags.

You dont need blakes though.

get off GWILTS BACK he has skill and height and strenght. Get on blakes he is finished.

[Ghost Like]

Some are saying Gwilt has a poor turning circle and then request Goose to replace him, unfortunately Goose will need to hit Tweed Heads before he gets on opportunity to turn around and get back to the contest.

If the argument is on turning circles then it would be Armo or Lynch.

If the argument is on structure and what the player can add to the forward line to take some heat off Roo and Kosi then it would be Goose or a reshuffle of players already in.

Personally I would like to see Goose play at some stage, not sure this is the right match, depends on weather and state of ground. If it's for change and it's deemed Gwilt is not holding up his end of the bargain then I believe Armo or Gram may get the gig, with BJ playing the 3rd tall forward.

I do not believe in change for change's sake but do believe that we will need to see what players like Armo, Goose and Lynch can offer to our 22 and whether they can play and adhere to our new structures and maintain our winning game style.

[suss]

This argument will be decided at some point on Thursday afternoon...if his game was that bad then Lynch will come in after threading 4 for Sandy (or maybe even Maguire)...if Ross thinks Gwilty did enough, he'll stay in the team.

I actually re-watched the first quarter (for the third time - once live, twice taped) last night and tried to just focus on Gwilt to decide for myself.

IMO he does enough...his first touch was an interception that should've lead to a goal had Milne not missed a sitter.

A couple of times the delivery to him was woeful: once the ball was passed over his head (by Kosi from memory) and the other time kicked to his oppositions advantage. I can't see how crap delivery is his fault.

He also laid about 4 or 5 tackles for the quarter and imposed himself physically. Not sure what the stats sheet reflects this. He also got a couple of hard balls when surrounded by multplie lions...did the right thing and try to lock it up without giving away the free.

All in all his first quarter was really good - definately did the most with what the limited opportunties he had. No clangers, unlike others. I think Ross would be pleased.

I do think that Etihad is a tough ground for a half forward...much like the SCG. The majority of balls go from the half back line into the forward line directly.

I'll watch the remaining 3 quarters with interest. But I'd say a few people a being a little unfair...

[Milton66]

There's only a set number of inside 50's per game. Of those, I'd say that instructions would be to seek out Roo or Kosi as first or 2nd options when you enter 50.

Much like it was with Lockett.

Roo and Kosi are the "go to" players.

On that basis, Gwilt will be limited in his "productivity" purely because players are likely to be instructed to bypass himand go for the preferred team option.

We can roll out all the stats and theories, but the bottom line is: is he doing enough based on what hie designated role is?

We'll find out soon enough.

Personally, I reckon if he is being groomed for the role, then you have to leave him there and let him grow with it. Dropping him would be a big mistake, unless form warrants it.

That's the only way you develop a player. And Jimmy has massive potential.

[vacuous space]

We can roll out all the stats and theories, but the bottom line is: is he doing enough based on what hie designated role is?

It's really hard to tell what his role is. There's a suggestion that he's played as a tall, but he's done a better at ground level than he has as an aerial target. His pressure's been okay as well. He seems to be more naturally inclined to play a small role than a tall one.

I'd love to see him play more like, say, Steve Johnson, ROK or Rob Murphy. I just don't think he's that type of player. If he's not going to use his size, then I think we'd be better off with a player like Armo or Eddy playing a ground level role. If we're really looking for a HF target, then Lynch might be an option. I don't think Goose is an option for anything other than a key spot.

I don't think he's been bad, but there isn't any one area of his game that really stands out. If he's going to be a permanent player in a team like that, he's really going to have to rectify that. Right now, Gwilt looks a bit like a placeholder waiting for someone to push him out of the team.

[Milton66]

We can roll out all the stats and theories, but the bottom line is: is he doing enough based on what hie designated role is?

It's really hard to tell what his role is. There's a suggestion that he's played as a tall, but he's done a better at ground level than he has as an aerial target. His pressure's been okay as well. He seems to be more naturally inclined to play a small role than a tall one.

I'd love to see him play more like, say, Steve Johnson, ROK or Rob Murphy. I just don't think he's that type of player. If he's not going to use his size, then I think we'd be better off with a player like Armo or Eddy playing a ground level role. If we're really looking for a HF target, then Lynch might be an option. I don't think Goose is an option for anything other than a key spot.

I don't think he's been bad, but there isn't any one area of his game that really stands out. If he's going to be a permanent player in a team like that, he's really going to have to rectify that. Right now, Gwilt looks a bit like a placeholder waiting for someone to push him out of the team.

Yeah, he doesn't look to flash overhead. But it comes down to designated role vs supporter expectation.

My view (and I know SFA) is that he's main role is to use his body, which aside from his kicking is his biggest asset.

Hamill was notorious for asserting himself physically. And I expect that's what they'd want Jimmy to do.

He's done it fairly well so far, but is way off the same intensity as Hamill. But that will come in time.

I doubt that Lynch has the capacity to provide that role at the moment. Goose may not be seen as the right "type" for that role, so he may have to come in for some one else.

2 bags in the VFL and people think that Goose is a fwd who's going to help us kick more goals. Not so, when you look at the structure we have in place. If Kosi and Roo are the main targets, and 3rd tall will struggle to kick a bag.

If Jimmy can get the same ferocity into his game as Mini has, then he'll be a good team player who'll keep his spot.

[vacuous space]

I doubt that Lynch has the capacity to provide that role at the moment.

I think Lynch is more naturally suited to that type of role than Gwilt. He's good overhead and at ground level. He moves well and has an enormous tank. He plays with a lot of aggression. The only issue for me is can he handle the pace of the AFL game yet. I don't think we'll know that until he gets a game.

I'm certainly not saying we need to drop Gwilt. I'm just saying there are options if we decide to do so without destroying our structure.

[JABBER]

Jason blake will be dropped before Gwilt

[Milton66]

I doubt that Lynch has the capacity to provide that role at the moment.

I think Lynch is more naturally suited to that type of role than Gwilt. He's good overhead and at ground level. He moves well and has an enormous tank. He plays with a lot of aggression. The only issue for me is can he handle the pace of the AFL game yet. I don't think we'll know that until he gets a game.

I'm certainly not saying we need to drop Gwilt. I'm just saying there are options if we decide to do so without destroying our structure.

Agree. My concern is if Lynch has the "body" to do it yet. Milne also plays aggressively, but can't make a tackle stick.

[vacuous space]

My concern is if Lynch has the "body" to do it yet. Milne also plays aggressively, but can't make a tackle stick.

His physical and mental maturity is definitely the question. I would add though that while Milne struggles with tackles, there are some very skinny players in the AFL who are very good tacklers. Ray, for example, is a very good tackler considering how slight he is.

[bigcarl]

I doubt that Lynch has the capacity to provide that role at the moment.

I think Lynch is more naturally suited to that type of role than Gwilt. He's good overhead and at ground level. He moves well and has an enormous tank. He plays with a lot of aggression. The only issue for me is can he handle the pace of the AFL game yet. I don't think we'll know that until he gets a game.

I'm certainly not saying we need to drop Gwilt. I'm just saying there are options if we decide to do so without destroying our structure.

Agree. My concern is if Lynch has the "body" to do it yet. Milne also plays aggressively, but can't make a tackle stick.

i think raph could play that third tall role.

not sure he could provide the defensive pressure that gwilt applies, but he'd be more creative and probably would get more of the pill and likely kick more goals.

having said that, ross is loathe to tinker with a successful combination.

[barks4eva]

Gwilt however, plays as a 3rd fwd.......averages a goal every 3 games.....and every game his opponents sag off him.....and I would suggest he has been beaten by his opponents weekly.......he has the turning circle of a super maxi.....the intensity of Chris Gayle

Absolutely agree 100%

Gwilt is an absolute liability who will be found out and exposed come finals time, no intensity whatsoever, should have been dropped many weeks ago.

It's only the efforts of others that are covering up his deficiencies!

[bergholt]

There's only a set number of inside 50's per game. Of those, I'd say that instructions would be to seek out Roo or Kosi as first or 2nd options when you enter 50.

Much like it was with Lockett.

Roo and Kosi are the "go to" players.

On that basis, Gwilt will be limited in his "productivity" purely because players are likely to be instructed to bypass himand go for the preferred team option.

fair point, and obviously we don't know what the coach wants of him.

but if there are two good tall targets down there, as you say, i don't see why the structure needs a third tall. so with roo and kosi in good form, the third tall role should be replaced with a tackling small player, to add to forward line pressure and support the midfield.

we haven't seen that structure yet this season, but i like the sound of it. because if anything, we've run out of legs in the midfield the last two weeks. another small can only help that particular state of affairs.

[Milton66]

There's only a set number of inside 50's per game. Of those, I'd say that instructions would be to seek out Roo or Kosi as first or 2nd options when you enter 50.

Much like it was with Lockett.

Roo and Kosi are the "go to" players.

On that basis, Gwilt will be limited in his "productivity" purely because players are likely to be instructed to bypass himand go for the preferred team option.

fair point, and obviously we don't know what the coach wants of him.

but if there are two good tall targets down there, as you say, i don't see why the structure needs a third tall. so with roo and kosi in good form, the third tall role should be replaced with a tackling small player, to add to forward line pressure and support the midfield.

we haven't seen that structure yet this season, but i like the sound of it. because if anything, we've run out of legs in the midfield the last two weeks. another small can only help that particular state of affairs.

That's why Goose won't get a gig up fwd. If anything Gilbo would be the man to do it, but I can't see him being moved, unless Goose or Dempster take his spot down back.

The call last year was for 3rd tall, because Roo was being double teamed, and Kosi was down on form. This year it's a different scenario. We're quicker to get the ball in, and Kosi is firing. So as you say, maybe we don't need that tall 3rd?

A flankers role these days seems to be to apply defensive pressure and that's it. Like Raph, Jimmy's awareness will improve. If it doesn't then he's gawn. Simple. I don't see Raph as an aggressive "body" player, whereas Gilbert is.

And don't forget that Dawson could also go fwd.

Either way, it's real pleasure to have these problems for once.

[hotdish]

Solid game from Gwilt today. 5 marks, a goal at a crucial stage of the match and did some good things.

Champion Data score of 85, his 3rd best game of the year.

Good stuff Gwilt man.

[Legendary]

Credit where it's due ... I thought he was lucky to keep his spot last week ... but had a good game this week.

[felixleo]

Personally i like him but with Max back and gilby back next week it could allow us to play bj as a full time medium forward.

[bigcarl]

Personally i like him but with Max back and gilby back next week it could allow us to play bj as a full time medium forward.

i like the sounds of that

[St Fidelius]

Solid game from Gwilt today. 5 marks, a goal at a crucial stage of the match and did some good things.

Champion Data score of 85, his 3rd best game of the year.

Good stuff Gwilt man.

Spot on!

15 possessions 1 goal and a score assist, I for one do not see him a liability (as previously mentioned).

Played a decent game today IMO

[midas_touch]

Played a pretty decent game, and did a couple of good things in the last quarter, with that goal and the assist immediately after. Did enough to earn his spot next week.

[RodKeoghsLoveChild]

Yep, played a very nice game today.

[maverick]

I thought he just went missing far too much, the goal he kicked was a beauty though.

I want him to be the answer, I just think he is still a weak link currently...

[vacuous space]

Did well in the contests, and we all know what Lyon thinks of contests.

I'd rate his chances of being dropped somewhere in the vicinity of zero.