Some worrying signs...

[saintsRrising]

......In terms of luck....if we had played the Dogs in their current form...we most likely would have won both games..

How unlucky are we to have played both games earlier in the first half of the year rather than at the end???? The Dogs have lost 6 of their last 8!!


You just have to take it a week at a time and look where you are at after 22 rounds.

Then the competition starts all over again.

[JeffDunne]

The logic of some around here never ceases to amaze me.

I can see it now, when we roll the Cats this week anyone who dared suggest we were lucky to be top 4 will be lambasted for praising the victory . . . "are we lucky now?" will be the predictable response.

Are we so fricken precious we can't call it as it is?

Boo fricken hoo media commentators think it's a lay down because we're up against a team that won 8 more games than us. Maybe I should bold that 8 part?

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

[groupie1]

well, yes, it does. if north or collingwood won our season was worse - relatively (and you can only have a god or bad season relative to others.) Melbourne was good compared to the St Albans under 12s. We finished fourth because we outperformed the other 12 teams. Big deal or not, it's the reality.

[Saints43]

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

Posters who argued that RL wasn't getting enough out of our list now have egg all over their faces becuse we finished in the top four.

Mmmm, eggs.

[markp]

The logic of some around here never ceases to amaze me.

I can see it now, when we roll the Cats this week anyone who dared suggest we were lucky to be top 4 will be lambasted for praising the victory . . . "are we lucky now?" will be the predictable response.

Are we so fricken precious we can't call it as it is?

Boo fricken hoo media commentators think it's a lay down because we're up against a team that won 8 more games than us. Maybe I should bold that 8 part?

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

Geeeez it's you who is the precious one... and pedantic.

It's your logic that is questionable too..... we win 8 from our last 10 (the last one by 108 points), but you stand by your goofy 'lucky' call out of some pointless internet forum vanity....

Dont forget your rabbits foot on Sunday.

[JeffDunne]

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

Posters who argued that RL wasn't getting enough out of our list now have egg all over their faces becuse we finished in the top four.

Mmmm, eggs.

TBH I reckon the complete opposite is true.

[JeffDunne]

Geeeez it's you who is the precious one... and pedantic.

Says the bloke using Wiki references and claiming we were somehow unlucky not to have secured a top 4 position earlier.

It's your logic that is questionable too..... we win 8 from our last 10 (the last one by 108 points), but you stand by your goofy 'lucky' call out of some pointless internet forum vanity....

No I stand by it because we needed other results to fall our way and we finished top 4 with only 13 wins.

Had we performed to our capabilties all season we wouldn't have needed other results to fall our way.

Dont forget your rabbits foot on Sunday.

Why?

[saintsRrising]

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

Yes you have to laugh...Lyon inherited the equivalent of a nice sports car....but one that only had 3 wheels and not all cylinders firing. Yes it looked good but when you tried to drive it flat out you could not. Like a good mechanic he has sourced the necessary parts and re-tuned the engine.

What was said was that Lyon was not left the best list in the competition that many wanted to make out when he took over as head coach two years back. Since he started he has worked very hard to improve the quality and structure of our list.

Look at our current team:

* Rookies once ignored..and now a valued and DEVELOPED. Three new rookies or ex-rookies to make 4 in total, will play this weekend adding much needing depth.

* Ruck. King is doing a sterling job in the No 1 ruck slot.

* Schneider adds a much needed second small forward to our forward line.

* Milne is now a much more complete player.

* Charlie while no star addresses a clear whole in our forward structure that Lyon inherited witha crippled Hamill and no ready replacement (despite the fact that the previous mangement clearly knew the stae of Hamill's knees and had no replacement in the wings).

* Pity that Demster is not playing as he gave us an excellent running back witha booming kick that could shut down small forwards...something that the Saints lack.

What Lyon has done is addressed some clear flaws in the structure and balance of the team that he took over. He has IMPROVED the team personnel wise.


Gameplan wise

Lyon took over a team that was all offence, but was defensively as a team clueless.

The game had changed toa running high possession game...but the saints were still structured up to copy the old Lions style (but without rucks!!!!!).


Lyon has trained the team now how to play zones...and to play asa team defensively.

Ridiculed by many with cries of chippolotto etc Lyon perserved and developed the team to play as they needed to. in the last half the year we have seen the St Kilda clam put in place to confuse and befuddle quality opponents who battled to enter their forward 50. The much feared running Crows HBs were made impotent.


Now Lyon in teaching the players about zoming and their defensive gameplan encountered a large problem when the players switched to their offensive gameplan as they were not attacking well enough. They were not running enough or moving the ball well enough. Lyon became publically frustrated (and perhaps this was not wise)....but he perserved and the players have now at last started to roll out both their offensive and defensive gameplans in the one game.


Critically the Saints spirit and commitment was lacking and confidence was up and down. The Saints have been this way post-streak where we have seen post-streak hot and cold quarters to the frustration of the previous coach...and the current coack.

Riewoldt's Bus which was meant to depart at last years B&F was still not fully loaded. BUT for the last hald season most of our players have at last all clambered on board.....but it did take the driver (Lyon) having to evict two pasengers for one stop to fully engage all the passengers!!!


Lyon has improved the team:
*Personnel wise
*Gameplan wise.

Lets hope that he can now make a permanent change to workrate and commitment (which is what the Cats did at the start of last season).

[JeffDunne]

I guess spending over a million dollars more on the football dept and the AFL funding the full compliment of rookies has nothing to do with it?

FWIW, I don't disagree with most of your points sRr, but this debate has been done to death.

Lyon is our coach, the players have bought into his message and I have far more confidence these days in our ability to shut down other teams rather than our ability to blow them out of the water.

It's all good.

[markp]

Says the bloke using Wiki references and claiming we were somehow unlucky not to have secured a top 4 position earlier.

It's just a dictionary.... and I was being facetious about being unlucky (you would think, obviously)..... the anti-Lyon brigade are certainly a bunch of earnest chaps.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

As I've said ovvasionally when playing poker - there are times I'd rather be lucky than good.

I don't see why acknowledging some luck has to be seen as an attempt to discredit Ross Lyon (which is the way this thread seems to be shaping up from thos arguing we weren't lucky to get top 4). Round 22 ends up being a metaphor for the 2nd half of the year.

The Saints had an awesome 2nd half. 8-3, and took down some very good opposition along the way to make up for a couple of snoozers they dropped. In round 22 they sent off the season with a bang, demolising a 2nd rate Essendon to give themselves the necessary percentage.

Nonetheless, it's got to be said that every team in the top 8, Saints included had their chances to really own that top 4 spot, and choked at least once. Given that the Saints came from a 5 win first half, got there with 13 wins, including a loss to WCE, I can't believe people are getting their panties in a bunch about the idea that lady luck had a hand.

Did they earn it? Absolutely, they put up the 4th best record in the comp in 2008. You make your own luck, by creating the opportunities. I don't see how I'm discrediting anyone in acknowledging that we got our share of luck to end up with our top 4 position.

To my mind, the Saints are exactly where they belong after that 2nd half. Playing off in rd 1 against the favourites for the right to be taken seriously.

[saintsRrising]

It's all good.

[JeffDunne]

..... the anti-Lyon brigade are certainly a bunch of earnest chaps.

Cut the crap. Nobody here is anti-Lyon as such, we are all pro-St Kilda (bar the odd troll). Name me one St Kilda supporter here that wants him to fail?

[WayneJudson42]

Gee. The OP was all about supporters not getting their hopes up for tomorrow. And if they do, then they shouldn't whinge if we lose.

Let's leave our "unofficial" official review for when the season is over.

The main worrying sign @ the WJ42 household is the constant reminder that I've shelled out $57 just to see my team get flogged. Mrs WJ42 ain't impressed.

Starting tomorrow... it's war! And we are all in this together.

Go Saints!!

[JeffDunne]

And if they do, then they shouldn't whinge if we lose.

That depends I guess on what we serve up.

If we play our best game for the season and lose then everyone invloved should be praised. If we put in our worst performance for the season then we would rightly deserve a spray considering what's at stake.

I'm confident, and I'm sure most here are, if we put in our best performance for the season we'll give them more than a run for their money.

[Schillaci]

And if they do, then they shouldn't whinge if we lose.

That depends I guess on what we serve up.

If we play our best game for the season and lose then everyone invloved should be praised. If we put in our worst performance for the season then we would rightly deserve a spray considering what's at stake.

I'm confident, and I'm sure most here are, if we put in our best performance for the season we'll give them more than a run for their money.

Exactly.

[Red]

Personally, I believe we can only beat the cats once. I would hope that

would the final day in September.

[rodgerfox]

JUST ADMIT YOU GOT IT DEADSET AND HOPELESSLY WRONG ON LYON

and stop all the spin and blather.

You and RodgerFox are fooling nobody with your spin.

I'll happily concede I'm wrong about Lyon being a good coach - hen I'm convinced he is.

I haven't been spinning anything.

I've said the exact same things today as I have all year.


If we go out in straight sets, then I'll be as convinced as ever he isn't a good coach.

If we win at least 1 final, and do at least that again next year - then I'll gladly admit I was wrong about his ability.


How any sane person can categorically declare someone a great or even good coach, after sneaking into 4th spot on the back of a bottom 8 finish, is simply astounding.


It's funny that finishing 4th - even playing in prelims and being pleased with it was 'accepting mediocrity', but suddenly now a 13 win season with a near fully fit list is a success??

Very funny indeed.

That's Saintsational for you I guess.

[Sainternist]

In the words of the Great Dennis Commetti...

People give way too much credit to Dennis, imo.
Sheesh, he's just a commentator, not an ambassador for the game or anything

We have nothing to lose tomorrow.
We get a crack at the best team.
We lose, we get a chance to knock out the Filth. How SWEET is that prospect?

[WayneJudson42]

In the words of the Great Dennis Commetti...

People give way too much credit to Dennis, imo.
Sheesh, he's just a commentator, not an ambassador for the game or anything

We have nothing to lose tomorrow.
We get a crack at the best team.
We lose, we get a chance to knock out the Filth. How SWEET is that prospect?

Just a quote dude.. he coined the phrase, and frankly, I reckon it may apply to our supporters if we lose.

It certainly applied to me in 97. I went there optimistically, and left half way thru the last.. misty-optically.

[Teflon]

All I'm asking for is that Lyon stays with his latter day approach, and doesn't go back to his old style. On the basis of the team he has selected for Sunday, all the signs are good.

I wish people would stop suggesting that I am not on board. I've been on board for two months now. And I'm staying there.

Your not on board at all.

Anyone can see your post are laced with "I told you so's" in the event we fall over at some stage.....thats not "on board"

As for your assertion that Lyon has altered his game plan - its just that....an assertion. Id argue what we are seeing is better execution of a game style that fitness is now allowing us to carry through when other sides (Adelaide/Nth good examples) are tiring.

Thats ofcourse my assertion....but I dont state it as fact......I just choose to back the coach (ALWAYS have) cause to me thats "on board",.

[Teflon]

JUST ADMIT YOU GOT IT DEADSET AND HOPELESSLY WRONG ON LYON

and stop all the spin and blather.

You and RodgerFox are fooling nobody with your spin.

I'll happily concede I'm wrong about Lyon being a good coach - hen I'm convinced he is.

I haven't been spinning anything.

I've said the exact same things today as I have all year.


If we go out in straight sets, then I'll be as convinced as ever he isn't a good coach.

If we win at least 1 final, and do at least that again next year - then I'll gladly admit I was wrong about his ability.


How any sane person can categorically declare someone a great or even good coach, after sneaking into 4th spot on the back of a bottom 8 finish, is simply astounding.

It's funny that finishing 4th - even playing in prelims and being pleased with it was 'accepting mediocrity', but suddenly now a 13 win season with a near fully fit list is a success??

Very funny indeed.

That's Saintsational for you I guess.

Once again award winning stupidity from the clown boy.

More clap trap sprouted in a vaccum without regard for the context this side has found itself in (not least being the changes) over the last 12/18 mths....just a dumb opinion that screams "look at me"

Saintsationals own "Pat Smith"....

[saintsRrising]

How can charging into fourth with a hundred point plus victory be considered as sneaking into fourth?

A great win.....a mammoth win a for a joyous result.....well joyous to most but not all it would seem.

Well I am excited anyway....for my team is taking on the might of the Cats tomorrow....bring em on.

[Saints43]

I must admit I find it a tad humorous that the same people that have justified our shitty performances over the past 2 seasons because they reckon our list isn't top 4 material, are the same people now arguing we aren't lucky to be in the top 4.

You have to laugh.

Posters who argued that RL wasn't getting enough out of our list now have egg all over their faces becuse we finished in the top four.

Mmmm, eggs.

TBH I reckon the complete opposite is true.

It was meant to be sarcastic... clearly anyone who argued that the club was performing to the sum of it's resources prior to recent times got it wrong.

[Saints43]

As for your assertion that Lyon has altered his game plan - its just that....an assertion. Id argue what we are seeing is better execution of a game style that fitness is now allowing us to carry through when other sides (Adelaide/Nth good examples) are tiring.

I don't think that's right.

Nearly all of last season and for large amounts of this early season we had structural issues where for large periods of game time we had no forwards in the F50 or a kick in front of the contest.

And we all gave John Barker a kicking for it. But I now wonder how much a forward coach could so when the forwards are actually quasi mids/defenders.

Anyway, this is hardly ever the case now (opposition set shots/back pocket stoppages aside) and we are seeing the benefits.

And combined with the smarts to hold the ball (I still don't agree that we stop run-ons all that well) we are starting to look a formidible team once again.