Jeff White?

[Saintschampions08]

We're going to have to bite the bullet, and take the brunt of what poor recruiting has done.

We have a major hole, in almost every area.

We need a major Key Defender, almost 2 if Maguire doesn't recover.

We need a Full Forward, or at least a reliable 40goal a year player.

We need a high possession getting midfielder.

Out of all these 'needs', or ruck need is by far the lowest. Don't know why we'd waste any money on a short term fix, rather then spend every possible cent on getting any one of the above types.

Remember, we can't fix everything overnight. IF we were to get White, we could maybe only get one of the above.
However, if we were to pass on White, we would be open to more needed positions.

[TimeToShineFellas]

What if he was delisted altogether from Melbourne and was the "best available" in the pre-season draft?

And didn't command a huge salary?

[WayneJudson42]

If we have room to move... then I'd be chasing Kerr. However, I think the pies will be trying.

[Dan Warna]

monkhorst couldn't mark over head, couldn't run more than 10m, and couldn't contest, and he was playing seniors when collingwood cut him.

great player, IN 1990!, we got him what? 99? 00? absolute lemon at that stage.

got a nice retirement year at st kilda.

as for age, its relative, Many here said V2 was too old and too slow at 29...

white is what? 31? 32, WAS a great player, finished now.

let him get his retirement pay packet from another club, we've got too many 'but he was cheap on the market' list fillers right now.

[battye]

For sure. Gardiner is useless, Jeff White could hardly be any worse.

[Con Gorozidis]

Warnock has several clubs keen on him

He will if he moves therefore be expensive in terms of draft picks and salary.


With King in ok form, and McEvoy taken with a low draft pick last year..is ruck still our greatest concern?

((Be interesting to know how our NSW Scholarship ruckman is shaping up????))

Or is it a classy mid (ie Kerr) and/or a key defender. Keeping our first two round picks could secure such types, but of coursethey will be a couple of seasons off.

i think we need more quality in the middle. kerr would do me. if not him then the best kid we can get.

we need to just cross our fingers and hope mcevoy or LVR (or both) end up ok. we could also just bloody train them in a way that improves the odds. if a decent ruckman is still around somewhere in the draft then we take him. (just not white or anyone over 27 or so).

[Solar]

We would have got white in the mid 90's if the Dees hadn't breached the salary cap.

that was my first thought when the subject was bought up in the papers.... oh how good we could have been. Imagine 2004 with white rucking and not knoble.....

[LTN16]

If we delist Rix and one of King or Gardiner retire than I would say yes.

If King and Gardiner remain at the the club than its a no from me.

I think by next year that McEvoy will be capable of being the 3rd Ruckman in line.

Sone cold, which club jumper is the guy in your avatar wearing?

It's Ben McEvoy wearing his Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup jumper.

[st.byron]

If we delist Rix and one of King or Gardiner retire than I would say yes.

If King and Gardiner remain at the the club than its a no from me.

I think by next year that McEvoy will be capable of being the 3rd Ruckman in line.

Sone cold, which club jumper is the guy in your avatar wearing?

It's Ben McEvoy wearing his Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup jumper.

ta mate. Thought it was an ammos jumper but couldn't place it.

[evertonfc]

Rix has more upside then a 32 yearold

When will people get it.

Rix could be 14, 26 or 37; it doesn't change the fact that he will not be an AFL player in two years time. White will be on his last legs, but will compete to the end.

He actually has something to give in that time. White offers something as a backup. For the same price, Rix does not.

How many flippin' chances does Rix need, anyway? He screws them all up.

And as for White not cementing himself, please, if I was Dean Bailey, I'd be doing the same thing. I wouldn't be playing anyone over 27. And he has young ruckman who are ready to play AFL full-time. We don't - ours are too young.

White will take the minimum wage next year and he'll be available for pick 135. People get too hung up on thinking that by taking him on, we're engaging in short-term solutions.

That is pure rubbish. What it suggests is that we're buying time until our next generation of ruckmen (McEvoy, possibly Van Rheenan and maybe someone from 2008/9 drafts) are ready to take over.

It keeps us competitive in the mean time with a bargain basement pick-up, yet allows us to keep developing young talent.

[Con Gorozidis]

White is rubbish everton. have u watched him play lately?
i agree rix is no good. but hes cheap back-up material.

white does not even go for the ball. he just prances around like a big who pony as far from the ball as he can get.

i say if a decent ruckman comes along or we find one somewhere in the back of bourke we take him (after testing). but white is not decent. hes rubbish.

[evertonfc]

White is rubbish everton. have u watched him play lately?
i agree rix is no good. but hes cheap back-up material.

White would cost the same as Rix, so that ends that 'cheap back-up' argument in favour of Rix.

White can compete in the ruck and find the footy. Rix can't do either. That Rix is younger is irrelevant because he isn't good enough to play at this level and will be delisted before White's career is out.

I'm not saying White is the saviour but you have 40-odd spots on a list. You simply have to make each one of them count. By replacing Rix - who Lyon has very little confidence in - with White, we'd be getting ourselves someone who Lyon *could* call upon if needed.

That's the difference: same price, one has talent and would make a worthwhile back-up, the other has never shown even glimpses at AFL level and does not have a future.

And by the time White left, McEvoy would be ready to go, perhaps Van Rheenan, probably another kid and we'd be all set for the next generation.

I'm not huge on stop-gap solutions as the be-all, but this is geared around keeping the ruck stocks competitive while we develop long-term solutions.

[Sobraz]

Getting White will just prolong the development of our youngsters, particularly Bigmac...

The best way for Mac to develop is gametime at the top level, and if he doesnt play 12-15 games next year i'll be disapppinted..

Recruiting White will merely justify playing BigMac in the 2's for another year as White racks up useless possies... Quite clearly the guy will be playing for his paycheck, and we have enough of those as it is...

Next year, King as our no.1 ruck (if Gardiner is let go) with Bigmac in and out of the senior team, being given plenty of opportunity...

Say NO to White...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I'd like to see where we finish before judging whether White would be useful or just get in the way.

I'd take him over Rix, but I'd have Rix among de-listees anyway. We've barely used him, want McEvoy to develop, and should be looking for one more young option in this area anyway.

The decision on White comes down to Gardiner/King. Gardiner's injuries have me wondering whether he'll stay on next year (showed enough when fit that I'm happy to have him if he decides to - White is better, but for a part time bit role I think there's more overall value in showing loyalty to the players than chopping and changing for little gain), and King's a lock. With Kosi/Blake backing up, IMO we've got the mobility, and I don't really like White up forward.

IF we make and are competitive in finals,
AND
Gardiner retires,
AND
Carlton (or someone else ahead of us in the PSD doesn't go for him)
THEN
I might be interested. For a PSD pick and a list spot earmarked for a role that White can fill. For all I believe White could displace King and be our #1 ruck for 2 years, I don't know if the value return would be high enough to exacerbate a weakness (ruck hitouts) to add to a relative strength (round the ground tall).

The thing that I actually find really tempting is that he's got the skills I really wish Kosi would learn - i.e. picking up uncontested possessions in the middle of the ground. But at Kosi's age, I've no confidence that picking up White would end up teaching those skills.

[evertonfc]

I accept that as a very fair middle ground, BAM! (shhhh).

I suppose I'm thinking more along the lines that Gardiner probably won't go on next year, and Rix, like you say, has to be delisted.

If we then took White for free, that would leave us with our ruck stocks looking like this:

King, White (first choice pairing)
Koschitzke, Blake (pinch hitting)
McEvoy, Van Rheenan/Other (development alternatives)

I'm happy with that. That McEvoy has an extra year under his belt next year means we could go without replacing Rix; meaning Gardiner's retirement could be traded in for White.

I think it's the best solution we can come up with in the short term. It probably also allows us to recuit a young ruckman in the national draft and quite possibly take a rookie ruckman as well.

I suppose the above scenario relies a lot on McEvoy making the requisite forward steps over summer, as well as Gardiner moving on. Both might not happen however, so it is somewhat speculative.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

but if we have king, white, kosi and blake in the team it make us too top heavy

in addition koi plays his best footy roaming around and getting involved in the odd ruck contest so what is the other ruckman supposed to do when kosi is doing his ruck-rover thing??

we cannot have both king and white on the bench at the same time and no sending them to the goalsquare never works...

[evertonfc]

but if we have king, white, kosi and blake in the team it make us too top heavy

As distinct from having our current first-choice line-up of King, Gardiner, Kosi and Blake...?

we cannot have both king and white on the bench at the same time and no sending them to the goalsquare never works...

Nobody is suggesting that.

When I say pinch hitting, I'm suggesting that if either King or White was injured, both Kosi and Blake could alternate in the second ruck role.

And hasn't been posted time and again that White would only be a back-up ruckman anyway?

I think we need to think laterally about how we can best maintain a strong team whilst developing a good team for the future. If we can import some short-term 'insurance', that's fine with me.

[WayneJudson42]

Very valid points rasied all round...

It comes down to having decent back up IMO. Just look at 97 when Spider and Lazar went down.

Not saying that you recruit White as a 1st or 2nd ruckman... but as a back up, and Everton you are 120% correct in that he'd be a better back up than Rix.

That's assumimg that King maintains the #1 position.

Let's say we delist Rix and MG... and King goes down. We'll be back to where we were with no proper ruckman, and we all seem to agree that we need at least 1 every week.

This means you'd have to play Kosi out of position... who'll take FF? And also Blake.

McEvoy is a kid, and it can go 2 ways for him... 1- he's a child prodigy and steps up next year, or 2- we play him and he gets smashed to pieces physically, and mentally. Same way as Ball, Kosi and X have been.

If someone like White is able to push King out of contention thru sheer weight of good form, then that's an incredible bonus IMO.

Bottom line: Dollar for dollar - I'd take White over Rix for thenext year or 2.

[gosaints]

This is a good topic with good arguments both ways.
My take on White is that yes he would definately be an upgrade on Rix and on M.Gardiner for that matter but does he still have what it takes, and will he after another long season?

My concern with White is that he is an undersized ruckman who has relied on his athleticism to become a good player. He is now getting on in age and his athleticism is starting to suffer. I don't think we can afford to carry a guy on our list who can't get off the ground and is too small to give an honest contest.

[WayneJudson42]

He is now getting on in age and his athleticism is starting to suffer. I don't think we can afford to carry a guy on our list who can't get off the ground and is too small to give an honest contest.

Pretty much sums up our current senior rucks

[saintsRrising]

Well the "crowd" for his last fw games will now increas.

I would imagine the recuiters and/ or coaches from:

Blues
Tigers
Dogs
Saints

Would all check him out to see where he is at.

If he goes PSD he would be a handy pick-up provided he can still play.

Dogs and Blues would be the most interested I would guess.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree in theory white could buy us some time. my issue with white is he doesnt try.

ive watched him a few times in the last 2 years and i swear he doesnt try. i think u are thinking of what he used to be like or what he could be like..... if only he tried and wasnt such a hack...

[WayneJudson42]

I think he's been selected this week. Let's see how he goes.

[Richter]

Where's the similarity with White?

What an unusual question.

Unless you've blocked it out of your memory, a lot of people said that King was "over the hill" (likewise Gardiner) before they joined the club. And the same thing is happening with White.

"A lot of people" were wrong on King.

When we picked up king he had just played two gFs in two weeks. Played a blinder in the granny. Whites last good game was at least a year ago.

Pretty simple really.

[Bono]

Teams better than you dont offload good players.

I would take White as a replacement for Gardiner. White's ruckwork isnt that crash hot however his work around the ground is great. He should have been playing for us from the start instead of going from Southern U18s to Freo.