Perspective Please...

[bigcarl]

you dont see GM or ford or stopping production for a few years then trying to turn the factories on full blast every 4 or 5 years. thats how the saints operate a business. whether we are top or bottom you should never stop the production/development business. i thikn this is how the pies/crows/power seem to operate.

well said and can only hope that someone at the club takes note

[Teflon]

No. Its a terrible post.

Teflon is effectively saying we are finished.

I don't believe that.

Rubbish Im not saying that at all.

Im saying we need changes. Geelong did it in 06 to great effect...our run given the timing is that much harder.

Regardless, its my view......it differs from yours so what/?....that doesnt make your view "terrible"... just wrong...

2 years ago you wanted a change of coach and you got it. Now you want the players to be changed also.

A coach who had 5 years to get it right and couldnt - that departure is abosultely the correct decision and we are seeing that now with the lack of anything coming through as "developed" That aside you clearly are stuck in GT- era. Hes gone you need to move on

Geelong did not change anything except processes and focusing the coach purely on the footy which we also did this year. Selwood was the only new kid to make a difference to their 2006 team.

Geelong has had some handy father son additions...there "recruiting" has been somewhat easier...that aside they did have a coach who was PREPARED to accept his job to focus on footy - as did Eade - while we had one still determined to run the lot. Big difference. Yes weve changed our focus for this year - its been what 1.5 so far and already "lets sack the coach has started"??? Regardless, the ability to bounce back quickly has been demonstrated - it can be done.

For whatever reason you seem to want the Saints to start again with no basis for looking forward except trust in a rebuild. Its the opposite approach Geelong took.

Wrong.

Geelong had to look back and change their football focus to go forward. So do we. We also need to restructure our list - if you believe its as good as 04 good luck with that....I dont.

No 2 rebuild approaches between clubs will ever be identical (I think your stuck in semantics) - what I am suggesting is that Geelong did it quickly, others have also (Port a good example last year) we can also if we are smart in our approach and have some resolve to stay the course and not shoot the bolt early as some on here a prone to do.

[Shaggy]

2 years ago you wanted a change of coach and you got it. Now you want the players to be changed also.

A coach who had 5 years to get it right and couldnt - that departure is abosultely the correct decision and we are seeing that now with the lack of anything coming through as "developed" That aside you clearly are stuck in GT- era. Hes gone you need to move on

Geelong did not change anything except processes and focusing the coach purely on the footy which we also did this year. Selwood was the only new kid to make a difference to their 2006 team.

Geelong has had some handy father son additions...there "recruiting" has been somewhat easier...that aside they did have a coach who was PREPARED to accept his job to focus on footy - as did Eade - while we had one still determined to run the lot. Big difference. Yes weve changed our focus for this year - its been what 1.5 so far and already "lets sack the coach has started"??? Regardless, the ability to bounce back quickly has been demonstrated - it can be done.

For whatever reason you seem to want the Saints to start again with no basis for looking forward except trust in a rebuild. Its the opposite approach Geelong took.

Wrong.

Geelong had to look back and change their football focus to go forward. So do we. We also need to restructure our list - if you believe its as good as 04 good luck with that....I dont.

No 2 rebuild approaches between clubs will ever be identical (I think your stuck in semantics) - what I am suggesting is that Geelong did it quickly, others have also (Port a good example last year) we can also if we are smart in our approach and have some resolve to stay the course and not shoot the bolt early as some on here a prone to do.

I am actually referring to your propensity to like personnel sacked when things are not going right (this year the players, in 2006 the coach).

Geelong went from 4th to 6th to 12th (a slide or a learning experience dealing with being the hunted rather than being the hunter whilst getting bigger bodied?). The same lazy, big headed, soft, undisciplined and front running rabble of so called guns and GOPs that were a disgrace to the Geelong jumper in 2006 + Selwood won Geelong the flag in 2007 and 9 AA selections .

Geelong turned it around individually and collectively in the summer of 2006 by individuals changing through a series of heart to hearts and a basic belief in each other rather than changing the individuals (which appears more to your liking).

We can do the same but it will require a massive about face from RL who IMO thought he had a winning formula from the start but his forumula doesn't work.

Unfortunately it all appears a bit like a Ramsay’s kitchen nightmare show (but he never sacks anyone even though I guess you would like him too).

[rodgerfox]

Geelong went from 4th to 6th to 12th (a slide or a learning experience dealing with being the hunted rather than being the hunter whilst getting bigger bodied?). The same lazy, big headed, soft, undisciplined and front running rabble of so called guns and GOPs that were a disgrace to the Geelong jumper in 2006 + Selwood won Geelong the flag in 2007 and 9 AA selections .

Best summary I've read in a while.

Correct weight.

[Teflon]

2 years ago you wanted a change of coach and you got it. Now you want the players to be changed also.

A coach who had 5 years to get it right and couldnt - that departure is abosultely the correct decision and we are seeing that now with the lack of anything coming through as "developed" That aside you clearly are stuck in GT- era. Hes gone you need to move on

Geelong did not change anything except processes and focusing the coach purely on the footy which we also did this year. Selwood was the only new kid to make a difference to their 2006 team.

Geelong has had some handy father son additions...there "recruiting" has been somewhat easier...that aside they did have a coach who was PREPARED to accept his job to focus on footy - as did Eade - while we had one still determined to run the lot. Big difference. Yes weve changed our focus for this year - its been what 1.5 so far and already "lets sack the coach has started"??? Regardless, the ability to bounce back quickly has been demonstrated - it can be done.

For whatever reason you seem to want the Saints to start again with no basis for looking forward except trust in a rebuild. Its the opposite approach Geelong took.

Wrong.

Geelong had to look back and change their football focus to go forward. So do we. We also need to restructure our list - if you believe its as good as 04 good luck with that....I dont.

No 2 rebuild approaches between clubs will ever be identical (I think your stuck in semantics) - what I am suggesting is that Geelong did it quickly, others have also (Port a good example last year) we can also if we are smart in our approach and have some resolve to stay the course and not shoot the bolt early as some on here a prone to do.

I am actually referring to your propensity to like personnel sacked when things are not going right (this year the players, in 2006 the coach).

Your fascination with my "propensities" is flattering but misguided. Changes at football clubs happen every year FACT. At some clubs the change is deeper. We have a list that requires some changes - you wont and cant change them all in a season but clearly some need to be weeded out.

Are you suggesting this list in its current form will carry us to a flag??? and if not....arent you also then showing a "propensity" for having people sacked?

Geelong went from 4th to 6th to 12th (a slide or a learning experience dealing with being the hunted rather than being the hunter whilst getting bigger bodied?). The same lazy, big headed, soft, undisciplined and front running rabble of so called guns and GOPs that were a disgrace to the Geelong jumper in 2006 + Selwood won Geelong the flag in 2007 and 9 AA selections .

Again Geelong could afford to leave their list intact - they have (by good genetic fortunes) had the ability to grab top liners from father sons AND recruited smart with Sellwood and Pridis etc coming through (I think Varcoe is another? who looks ok also) - point is we are still waiting for McQualters/Gwilts/Ferguson/Raphs.......

As I also mentioned (and you skipped over) Geelong HAS a coach who was WILLING to let go of the football manager work and just coach - our previous guru (who you clearly still love...) wanted to do the lot and perhaps re-claim Germany AND then wanted to fight the ENTIRE Board who ALL voted he had to go. Big difference as to why anyone would have a "propensity" to require change and sackings.....but you stick with your ...tired old lam @assed arguments that I just like having em sacked.....it gets you brownies with Dodg so thats some comfort...

Geelong turned it around individually and collectively in the summer of 2006 by individuals changing through a series of heart to hearts and a basic belief in each other rather than changing the individuals (which appears more to your liking).

They didnt just have "heart to hearts" FFS they had a complete FOOTBALL REVIEW which culminated in their coach losing some of his job and Neil Balme being bought in - we tried that earlier (with Drain also) but Atilla the Hun wasnt happy with ANYONE giving him directions and we imploded. Again if after that you felt no one deserved to depart the club (and it was either the Board or Grant the Flatulent one by this stage) and we could roll on as if nothing had occured.......enjoy the sand....

We can do the same but it will require a massive about face from RL who IMO thought he had a winning formula from the start but his forumula doesn't work.

So here it is. Our entire fix is all about Ross Lyon. Ross will need to do an about face (and a few somersaults...), just flick on the magic "motivation" button, start drumming up players belief clouds (cause we cant expect that level of professionalism from AFL footballers right??.....and hey presto.....out will run the 2004 St Kilda machine ready to smash Hawks/Cats?..............must be wonderful where you live.....

Unfortunately it all appears a bit like a Ramsay’s kitchen nightmare show (but he never sacks anyone even though I guess you would like him too).

I've more of a "propensity" for Hells Kitchen.....someone goes weekly....although you probably get all emotional at the thought...I mean.....big nasty Gordon and all................

[matrix]