Yes I wondered perhaps the same thing as you when the Harcourt story broke.SENsaintsational wrote:What does Peter Harcourt think?
Mitch Clark
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- saintsRrising
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Re: Mitch Clark
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
Re: Mitch Clark
To me it seemed like his depression was precipitated by his recurrent injuries and compounded at the end by a sense of guilt that he was taking significant coin from Melbourne that he finally realised he was going to be unable to give them much for. So he retired and gave up some of the $ he could he taken.
He continues to live in the Bayside region, and if he has managed to turn his state of mind around and has gotten on top of his injury issues... well he might be worth a look in. For a psd pick he would be fairly low risk I would have thought.
He continues to live in the Bayside region, and if he has managed to turn his state of mind around and has gotten on top of his injury issues... well he might be worth a look in. For a psd pick he would be fairly low risk I would have thought.
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Re: Mitch Clark
The way he sounded I feel the biggest chance of him playing again would with one of the WA sides. Don't think he'd be that keen to move that far from home at the koment.
Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one.
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Re: Mitch Clark
Ok. Can I ask what you mean by this this and why you believe it?stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:Coming from a mental health clinician with a masters degree and 10years experience... This is an incredibly ignorant poststinger wrote: you can control depression...you can't cure it.....
...stop embarresing yourself.....i am more than familiar with depression......from a professional standpoint
of over twenty years.....as well as having close relatives with the illness.....
we are not taliking about such things as post natal depression...which of course can be cured....
Re: Mitch Clark
you have no idea of what i do for a living or what my family situation is.......so you keep your opinions to yourself unless you have doctor before your name....i'm damn sure that my experience outways yours ffsArmoooo wrote:Incredibly ignorant and arrogant post.stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:Coming from a mental health clinician with a masters degree and 10years experience... This is an incredibly ignorant poststinger wrote: you can control depression...you can't cure it.....
...stop embarresing yourself.....i am more than familiar with depression......from a professional standpoint
of over twenty years.....as well as having close relatives with the illness.....
we are not taliking about such things as post natal depression...which of course can be cured....
If you don't understand the complexities of mental illness keep it to yourself, it's people spouting nonsense like this that creates a stigma which further harms the individuals suffering from these conditions.
The developments that have been made over the last decade have been phenomenal and your comments would have been outdated even before then
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Re: Mitch Clark
We all know what you say you do for a living. You told us all many times you are a lawyer. By the way didnt you have a go at a poster just before Armoo said something?stinger wrote:you have no idea of what i do for a living or what my family situation is.......so you keep your opinions to yourself unless you have doctor before your name....i'm damn sure that my experience outways yours ffsArmoooo wrote:Incredibly ignorant and arrogant post.stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:Coming from a mental health clinician with a masters degree and 10years experience... This is an incredibly ignorant poststinger wrote: you can control depression...you can't cure it.....
...stop embarresing yourself.....i am more than familiar with depression......from a professional standpoint
of over twenty years.....as well as having close relatives with the illness.....
we are not taliking about such things as post natal depression...which of course can be cured....
If you don't understand the complexities of mental illness keep it to yourself, it's people spouting nonsense like this that creates a stigma which further harms the individuals suffering from these conditions.
The developments that have been made over the last decade have been phenomenal and your comments would have been outdated even before then
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Re: Mitch Clark
I don't care what you do for a living and I didn't ask what your family situation is.stinger wrote:you have no idea of what i do for a living or what my family situation is.......so you keep your opinions to yourself unless you have doctor before your name....i'm damn sure that my experience outways yours ffsArmoooo wrote:Incredibly ignorant and arrogant post.stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:Coming from a mental health clinician with a masters degree and 10years experience... This is an incredibly ignorant poststinger wrote: you can control depression...you can't cure it.....
...stop embarresing yourself.....i am more than familiar with depression......from a professional standpoint
of over twenty years.....as well as having close relatives with the illness.....
we are not taliking about such things as post natal depression...which of course can be cured....
If you don't understand the complexities of mental illness keep it to yourself, it's people spouting nonsense like this that creates a stigma which further harms the individuals suffering from these conditions.
The developments that have been made over the last decade have been phenomenal and your comments would have been outdated even before then
I just pointed out that what you said is plain wrong. Any personal experience you may have had doesn't change that.
I don't have Dr before my name but I very may well in the next few years, would you like me to tell you how wrong you are then?
Also as somebody who has suffered depression, comes from a family with an extensive history of depression, did help line support work, done councelling with at risk kids and lost more than a couple of friends to suicide I think I've got a pretty fair background on the topic myself.
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384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
Re: Mitch Clark
sorry to hear of your personal situation....doesn't change my view that depression can be controlled but is never cured....unless it is drug or alcohol induced in the first place..that's my opinion, based on many years of listening to professionals who are all far more qualified that you......stating a person opinion on a footy forum about whether or not to recruit an individual should not result in the type of personal abuse you directed at me....ps.....at least learn how to spell what you claim to have been doing....Armoooo wrote:I don't care what you do for a living and I didn't ask what your family situation is.stinger wrote:you have no idea of what i do for a living or what my family situation is.......so you keep your opinions to yourself unless you have doctor before your name....i'm damn sure that my experience outways yours ffsArmoooo wrote:Incredibly ignorant and arrogant post.stinger wrote:skeptic wrote:Coming from a mental health clinician with a masters degree and 10years experience... This is an incredibly ignorant poststinger wrote: you can control depression...you can't cure it.....
...stop embarresing yourself.....i am more than familiar with depression......from a professional standpoint
of over twenty years.....as well as having close relatives with the illness.....
we are not taliking about such things as post natal depression...which of course can be cured....
If you don't understand the complexities of mental illness keep it to yourself, it's people spouting nonsense like this that creates a stigma which further harms the individuals suffering from these conditions.
The developments that have been made over the last decade have been phenomenal and your comments would have been outdated even before then
I just pointed out that what you said is plain wrong. Any personal experience you may have had doesn't change that.
I don't have Dr before my name but I very may well in the next few years, would you like me to tell you how wrong you are then?
Also as somebody who has suffered depression, comes from a family with an extensive history of depression, did help line support work, done councelling with at risk kids and lost more than a couple of friends to suicide I think I've got a pretty fair background on the topic myself.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Mitch Clark
Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
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Re: Mitch Clark
Everything else is white noise - the only important questions are:
1) Is Mitch Clark physically and mentally up to playing AFL again?
2) Does he want to play again, and if so is he happy to play at our club?
Everything else is irrelevant. The fact is that the bloke can play key forward, play it well and if we can get him via preseason then go for it. He's a good player when fit and is in the age bracket that is a chasm on our list. It would relieve some of the incredible burden on Roo in his last year, would relegate Stanley to third string forward (at which he would look like a different player IMO) and probably go close to making us look like a functional AFL team when we move the ball forward.
Also buys us some time to get some development into White.
1) Is Mitch Clark physically and mentally up to playing AFL again?
2) Does he want to play again, and if so is he happy to play at our club?
Everything else is irrelevant. The fact is that the bloke can play key forward, play it well and if we can get him via preseason then go for it. He's a good player when fit and is in the age bracket that is a chasm on our list. It would relieve some of the incredible burden on Roo in his last year, would relegate Stanley to third string forward (at which he would look like a different player IMO) and probably go close to making us look like a functional AFL team when we move the ball forward.
Also buys us some time to get some development into White.
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Re: Mitch Clark
I think this is a very long thread for what is a pretty much hypothetical guess by someone. Pretty sure there is no real substance from what I've read on here.
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
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Re: Mitch Clark
Cheers Jigthejiggingsaint wrote:sorted?
I've never seen a bad St.Kilda player - that's just how they are.
Re: Mitch Clark
Armoooo wrote:Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
as i said i'm sorry to hear about your personal situation......i don't want to get out a measuring tape in this argument, but what i'm talking about is clinical depression...the type that they still give electric shock treatment for, or prescribe a life time of medication .....yes...some people on medication think they no longer need it and come of the drugs....most relapse within a short period of time......you can have your view...i will maintain mine...nothing either of us say is going to change that.........i realize it must be hard for you to engage in this argument so from me...enough is enough...and i still would not recruit clarke....give him a job...yes...be his friend...yes....but have the saints take a chance on him...no......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Mitch Clark
I'm happy to leave it at that too mate.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't recruit him either.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't recruit him either.
ROBERT HARVEY A.K.A The Great Man, Banger, Harves, Ol' Man River...
384 games, 4 B&F's, 3 EJ Whitten Medals, St.Kilda Captain, 2 Time Brownlow Medalist, 8 Time All Australian, 2nd Highest Brownlow votes poller.... The greatest of ALL TIME!!
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Re: Mitch Clark
Are we implying that Clark had some sort of substance abuse?
When he retired that was the 1st thing that came into my mind.
When he retired that was the 1st thing that came into my mind.
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
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Re: Mitch Clark
Without entering into the personal circumstances discussion in the case RE Mitch the clincher for me would be the type of depression that he has...
As Armo pointed out, there's the hormonal type of depression which to me is depression in its truest form...
treatment can vary a bit dependent on lifestyle factors and severity. For people needing medication... it can be a simple case of being on them for months or a few years and the episode is a blip in an otherwise full life. Alternatively, it can be cyclical too and bob back from time to time requiring intermittent treatment. Alternatively, it can be quite serious requiring ongoing treatment for a sustained time... sometimes forever.
Stinger's initial comment bothered just because whilst the circumstance he described is a very legitimate one, the majority of this type of sufferer usually just has an episode, maybe two and otherwise live w/o it hanging over them... this is also very well supported in literature too.
If Mitch Clarke had this type of depression... I would consider redrafting him depending on the details (which are obviously not my right to know).
The growing form of depression out there is a kind of social depression. People present to GPs, EDs or community mental health services reporting depressive type symptoms secondary to personal stressors happening to them in their lives... usually financial or relationship based... in this type of circumstance there's really very little to be gained from hospitalisaiton, meds, counselling etc but we're living in such a litigous society now where f the term suicidal is mentioned, healthcare professionals are inclined to do something so as they can show they did something in the event of an adverse outcome. The most common being starting someone on an anti-depressant that they don't need to be on.
Hence (IMO) you end up in a scenario where people take less responsibility for themselves and try to shift accountability or blame illness for poor decisions/coping. So by becoming involved, services are actually not helping the person so much
If this is the scenario, or it's a combination of the two, I would be more inclined to steer clear as poor decision making is likely to be ongoing
As Armo pointed out, there's the hormonal type of depression which to me is depression in its truest form...
treatment can vary a bit dependent on lifestyle factors and severity. For people needing medication... it can be a simple case of being on them for months or a few years and the episode is a blip in an otherwise full life. Alternatively, it can be cyclical too and bob back from time to time requiring intermittent treatment. Alternatively, it can be quite serious requiring ongoing treatment for a sustained time... sometimes forever.
Stinger's initial comment bothered just because whilst the circumstance he described is a very legitimate one, the majority of this type of sufferer usually just has an episode, maybe two and otherwise live w/o it hanging over them... this is also very well supported in literature too.
If Mitch Clarke had this type of depression... I would consider redrafting him depending on the details (which are obviously not my right to know).
The growing form of depression out there is a kind of social depression. People present to GPs, EDs or community mental health services reporting depressive type symptoms secondary to personal stressors happening to them in their lives... usually financial or relationship based... in this type of circumstance there's really very little to be gained from hospitalisaiton, meds, counselling etc but we're living in such a litigous society now where f the term suicidal is mentioned, healthcare professionals are inclined to do something so as they can show they did something in the event of an adverse outcome. The most common being starting someone on an anti-depressant that they don't need to be on.
Hence (IMO) you end up in a scenario where people take less responsibility for themselves and try to shift accountability or blame illness for poor decisions/coping. So by becoming involved, services are actually not helping the person so much
If this is the scenario, or it's a combination of the two, I would be more inclined to steer clear as poor decision making is likely to be ongoing
Re: Mitch Clark
noted..i am not going to go any further than that....skeptic wrote:Without entering into the personal circumstances discussion in the case RE Mitch the clincher for me would be the type of depression that he has...
As Armo pointed out, there's the hormonal type of depression which to me is depression in its truest form...
treatment can vary a bit dependent on lifestyle factors and severity. For people needing medication... it can be a simple case of being on them for months or a few years and the episode is a blip in an otherwise full life. Alternatively, it can be cyclical too and bob back from time to time requiring intermittent treatment. Alternatively, it can be quite serious requiring ongoing treatment for a sustained time... sometimes forever.
Stinger's initial comment bothered just because whilst the circumstance he described is a very legitimate one, the majority of this type of sufferer usually just has an episode, maybe two and otherwise live w/o it hanging over them... this is also very well supported in literature too.
If Mitch Clarke had this type of depression... I would consider redrafting him depending on the details (which are obviously not my right to know).
The growing form of depression out there is a kind of social depression. People present to GPs, EDs or community mental health services reporting depressive type symptoms secondary to personal stressors happening to them in their lives... usually financial or relationship based... in this type of circumstance there's really very little to be gained from hospitalisaiton, meds, counselling etc but we're living in such a litigous society now where f the term suicidal is mentioned, healthcare professionals are inclined to do something so as they can show they did something in the event of an adverse outcome. The most common being starting someone on an anti-depressant that they don't need to be on.
Hence (IMO) you end up in a scenario where people take less responsibility for themselves and try to shift accountability or blame illness for poor decisions/coping. So by becoming involved, services are actually not helping the person so much
If this is the scenario, or it's a combination of the two, I would be more inclined to steer clear as poor decision making is likely to be ongoing
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
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Re: Mitch Clark
Agreed. Any poster trying to make some bulls***, naive or plain dumb diagnosis is a f****** wanker.Armoooo wrote:Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
One thing about Mitch Clark is that the bloke has balls. Major balls. To go public with his mental health situation considering his sporting background takes major balls.
Therefore, if Mitch Clark stated he is well to resume his career, surely a bloke with the balls that he obviously possesses should be listened to?
Sheesh most people on here are absolute tools.
Re: Mitch Clark
most.....??????...well i would definately put you in that catergory......if you are referring to me ...just say so...instead of skipping around...The Redeemer wrote:Agreed. Any poster trying to make some bulls***, naive or plain dumb diagnosis is a f****** wanker.Armoooo wrote:Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
One thing about Mitch Clark is that the bloke has balls. Major balls. To go public with his mental health situation considering his sporting background takes major balls.
Therefore, if Mitch Clark stated he is well to resume his career, surely a bloke with the balls that he obviously possesses should be listened to?
Sheesh most people on here are absolute tools.
and for what it's worth..i don't think mitch clarke has said anything of the sort.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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Re: Mitch Clark
I wouldn't normally recommend self diagnosis as the lack of objectivity can cloud both the causes of one's condition and the required course of treatment.The Redeemer wrote:Agreed. Any poster trying to make some bulls***, naive or plain dumb diagnosis is a f****** wanker.Armoooo wrote:Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
One thing about Mitch Clark is that the bloke has balls. Major balls. To go public with his mental health situation considering his sporting background takes major balls.
Therefore, if Mitch Clark stated he is well to resume his career, surely a bloke with the balls that he obviously possesses should be listened to?
Sheesh most people on here are absolute tools.
However in your case, I agree with your last point entirely. You are an absolute tool.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
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Re: Mitch Clark
Tell me more about how I do not care.SaintPav wrote:I wouldn't normally recommend self diagnosis as the lack of objectivity can cloud both the causes of one's condition and the required course of treatment.The Redeemer wrote:Agreed. Any poster trying to make some bulls***, naive or plain dumb diagnosis is a f****** wanker.Armoooo wrote:Drug related depressions can be some of the least likely to be recovered from as they can damage the actual structures of the brain relating to mood.
The most common forms of depression are the result of hormone imbalances which can come from a wide range of sources, some as simple as diet and exposure to natural sunlight. Remove the hormonal imbalances and you remove the symptoms, simple as that.
Nobody on here knows Clark's situation, but in general, depression can be cured in certain circumstances.
You also can't argue behind the old opinion argument when it comes to science. To paraphrase Neil Degrasse Tyson, the great thing about science is its true whether you believe it or not.
But then again, I did make a typo in my previous post so I guess anything I say is invalid.
One thing about Mitch Clark is that the bloke has balls. Major balls. To go public with his mental health situation considering his sporting background takes major balls.
Therefore, if Mitch Clark stated he is well to resume his career, surely a bloke with the balls that he obviously possesses should be listened to?
Sheesh most people on here are absolute tools.
However in your case, I agree with your last point entirely. You are an absolute tool.
Re: Mitch Clark
An update:
Clarke is warming to the idea of a return to AFL. He is actually still on Melbourne's list so they have the ability to trade him if he doesn't want to play for them.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... um=twitter
Clarke is warming to the idea of a return to AFL. He is actually still on Melbourne's list so they have the ability to trade him if he doesn't want to play for them.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... um=twitter
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Re: Mitch Clark
id love him if he wants to play for us.FQF wrote:An update:
Clarke is warming to the idea of a return to AFL. He is actually still on Melbourne's list so they have the ability to trade him if he doesn't want to play for them.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... um=twitter
Melbourne still hold the cards.
Not sure where his family are but ud think freo would do it for pick 14.
Re: Mitch Clark
He seems to still be living in Melbourne. But agree, we aren't the front runners.Con Gorozidis wrote:id love him if he wants to play for us.FQF wrote:An update:
Clarke is warming to the idea of a return to AFL. He is actually still on Melbourne's list so they have the ability to trade him if he doesn't want to play for them.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-pre ... um=twitter
Melbourne still hold the cards.
Not sure where his family are but ud think freo would do it for pick 14.