Possible trade

[plugger66]

I cannot see GWS trading pick 1 unless they get a ridiculous offer - which sheedy is hoping for - like a Kruezer and Gibbs.

This Kid at 1 could be anything and is worth hunting but the fact that 2-5 are all quality mids which seem to not have a clear order means upside in our pick 4

I seriously woudldnt be surprised if Carlton offered up Kreuzer and Gibbs to GWS for Pick 1 (Boyd)

They wont give both but if they do they should be closed down. One should get it done especially if its Kreuzer as they have made it know they need a ruckman. It will probably take a second round pick as well.

[saintbrat]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

[8856brother]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

Was Milne not Kosi. Couldn't see either playing elsewhere.

[saintbrat]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked incredulous...

Was Milne not Kosi. Couldn't see either playing elsewhere.

thats it - but have deleted the record a s I thought it silly..

[older saint]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

You said it in 1 Hutchy - He has the footy knowledge of a house brick and basically rumour mongers working on the theory if you guess enough eventually one will be correct - no credibility to anything he says .

[stinger]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

You said it in 1 Hutchy - He has the footy knowledge of a house brick and basically rumour mongers working on the theory if you guess enough eventually one will be correct - no credibility to anything he says .

+1.....

[Con Gorozidis]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

Bratty I would argue we have a surplus of small fwds and middle sized defenders.

Even with two retirements - that still leaves 12 experienced players on our list. WAY more than any other club. So we can still afford to trade out 2 imho.

kosi, cj, lenny, roo, milney, joey, fisher, nds, gilbo, dempster, schneids, gwilty, geary, ray = 14 - 2 - 2 = 10.

I think 10 experienced players is heaps. Most lists would have 6-10.

[plugger66]

Personally I will repeat - Why would we trade out our reducing experience- given 1 or 2 retirements,
we need that experience-


Hutchy's mercenary list of players who should leave their clubs last night to GET a premiership - Included L Hayes, S Black ( I think he's got one) Gia and I think it was Kosi.

I am still wodnering what he was smoking before getting the slide made up- Garry just looked ieerdulous...

Bratty I would argue we have a surplus of small fwds and middle sized defenders.

Even with two retirements - that still leaves 12 experienced players on our list. WAY more than any other club. So we can still afford to trade out 2 imho.

kosi, cj, lenny, roo, milney, joey, nds, gilbo, dempster, schneids, gwilty, geary, ray = 13 - 2 - 2 = 9.

What do you mean 12 experienced players is way more than any other club. I would think that is very close to average apart from maybe GWS, PT Adelaide and GC and probably melbourne.

[bergsone]

IMO it depends on how you look at experience ,if finals experience is compared to Richmond,Carlton,Lions,etc,yes we do have that .Yet games played we are comparable to others

[Old Mate]

I reckon when middle of the road and on the decline (like last year) you make a couple of trades moving on some experience however being where we are in the bottom 3 and in a strong draft position we keep the experience we have. Having a top 5 pick and a further 2 inside the top 40 puts us in a position that we don't need to move on a Dal Santo or Montagna for the sake of another pick in that lower range.

[Con Gorozidis]

What do you mean 12 experienced players is way more than any other club. I would think that is very close to average apart from maybe GWS, PT Adelaide and GC and probably melbourne.

Pretty interesting actually pluggs.
As you can probably guess - i really had no idea whether 14/12 was a lot a few or medium

So I just did a quick scan (experienced = 100 games +) of a few teams to get a take on this.

Pies 17
Cats 15
Swans 14
Hawks 14
Saints 14
Dockers 11
Port 10
Melbourne 9
Bulldogs 9
Bombers 8
Suns 7



The point is if our 14 experienced players can only get up to 3rd bottom then Houston we have a problem!

The really interesting outliers are the Bombers - they have very few experienced players and still top 4 (alarm bells ASADA?)- and us - lots of experience but bottom 4.

Id also be concerned if I was a Pies fan. They have plenty of experience but cant really match it with the big boys.

[Con Gorozidis]

I missed the Tiges = 13

But as I said on another Post - I think Port have got their 'rebuild' right and we should look at how they went about it in the last 3-4 years.

[Con Gorozidis]

So in summary:

Currently we have 14 (+ 3 guys) - Geary, Armo and Macca getting close to 100 games. This would take us to a whopping 17 experienced players next year.

So if we have 2 retirements + trade 2 - then add those 3 guys to the experienced group it still leaves us on 13 experienced players for next year.

I wouldn't like to drop below 10 - but 13 is hardly cause for people to say - 'oh lets not be Melbourne and lose all our experience'. Clearly that aint going to happen.

So we can safely retire 2 plus trade 2 eps and still be up near the top (13) with experienced players.

For those saying we cant trade any eps - then having 15 eps for 2014 and being 3rd bottom is a pretty frigging sad state of affairs if youre asking me.

Heck the Bombers are top 4 with only 8!

[plugger66]

I missed the Tiges = 13

But as I said on another Post - I think Port have got their 'rebuild' right and we should look at how they went about it in the last 3-4 years.

Yeop and we will be down to about 10 or 11 next year. Not sure 100 games means much though.

[Con Gorozidis]

I missed the Tiges = 13

But as I said on another Post - I think Port have got their 'rebuild' right and we should look at how they went about it in the last 3-4 years.

Yep and we will be down to about 10 or 11 next year. Not sure 100 games means much though.

I have just clearly shown that with 2 retirements and no trades - we will be 'down' to 15.....

So you think its cool to have one of the oldest lists in the AFL - and be 3rd bottom?

So the status quo is about right? Were going along ok? Reward the older guys with extended contracts for their terrific job getting us 3rd bottom?

I have just well and truly DEMOLISHED the myth that if we lose a few eps - we might end up like Melbourne.

I just demolished it and explained and showed that on the facts - it is not possible.

Now I understand it is emotionally difficult for people to trade some of our older warriors who climbed the mountain for us in 2009 and 2010 - but our list is decidedly unbalanced.

If you have an old list - and you finish top 6 - well thats cool.

If you have old list and you are 3rd bottom - you have a serious problem.

People need to have a good hard look at the here and now and not live in the past.

(this isnt aimed at you pluggs- just generally)

[plugger66]

I missed the Tiges = 13

But as I said on another Post - I think Port have got their 'rebuild' right and we should look at how they went about it in the last 3-4 years.

Yep and we will be down to about 10 or 11 next year. Not sure 100 games means much though.

I have just clearly shown that with 2 retirements and no trades - we will be 'down' to 15.....

So you think its cool to have one of the oldest lists in the AFL - and be 3rd bottom?

So the status quo is about right? Were going along ok? Reward the older guys with extended contracts for their terrific job getting us 3rd bottom?

I have just well and truly DEMOLISHED the myth that if we lose a few eps - we might end up like Melbourne.

I just demolished it and explained and showed that on the facts - it is not possible.

Now I understand it is emotionally difficult for people to trade some of our older warriors who climbed the mountain for us in 2009 and 2010 - but our list is decidedly unbalanced.

If you have an old list - and you finish top 6 - well thats cool.

If you have old list and you are 3rd bottom - you have a serious problem.

People need to have a good hard look at the here and now and not live in the past.

(this isnt aimed at you pluggs- just generally)

If we lose 2 how do you come up with 15? Im confused. And i also said 100 games means jack really. Its the age of players that is important. We will still have one or two to many but there is no way we should get rid of lenny unless he wants to go. Milney will probably go IMO which makes 3 older guys and I think Schneider may retire if he cant get back next year. So Con who should go aprt from those mentioned? Obviously Kosi and Blake are a given. And Con you can only have so many picks. And also there is no rule that says older players have to play ones. Blake and Kosi are proof of that.

[Con Gorozidis]

If we lose 2 how do you come up with 15? Im confused. And i also said 100 games means jack really. Its the age of players that is important. We will still have one or two to many but there is no way we should get rid of lenny unless he wants to go. Milney will probably go IMO which makes 3 older guys and I think Schneider may retire if he cant get back next year. So Con who should go aprt from those mentioned? Obviously Kosi and Blake are a given. And Con you can only have so many picks. And also there is no rule that says older players have to play ones. Blake and Kosi are proof of that.

I forgot Blakey! OK so currently we have 15 (equal 2nd number of eps with the Cats) - the Swans and the Hawks have 14.

remember my numbers are taken NOW (mid-season)

2014
2 retirements we go down to 13 (15-2) BUT macca gears and armo will become eps in 2014. So in 12 months from now - we will have 16 eps if we only have the 2 retirements.

So in the extreme case of 3 retirements + 2 traded eps - we still end up with 13 eps in 12 months from now (Melbourne have 9 eps now)

So all im saying is the following:

If people want to keep all our eps in 2014 (bar 2) and think having 15-16 eps and still being 3rd bottom is ok (because we are loyal and are still loving/rewarding all these guys for 2009/10) - Then that is totally cool and just come out and say it openly.

But please dont BS me and use the 'look at Melbourne' defence for wanting to keep them all. It is clearly a myth and simply cant happen.

I have shown clearly and comprehensively that it is nigh on impossible for us to drop to Melbourne's level of 9 eps.

Ill say it again clearly - There is no chance we will 'do a Melbourne' via trading 2 eps.

[Con Gorozidis]

Current ep ladder
where ep = 100 + games

Pies 17
Cats 15
Saints 15
Swans 14
Hawks 14
Tigers 13
Dockers 11
Port 10
Melbourne 9
Bulldogs 9
Bombers 8
Suns 7

[Old Mate]

I reckon we lose at least 3 experienced players through retirement, possibly 5 at years end. Kosi, Milne, Blake gone and Lenny and Schneider a good chance as well.

[Con Gorozidis]

Pluggs - im not saying we should trade an ep for the sake of it.

But if a decent trade came along we should seriously consider it - the 'we dont want to become Melbourne' excuse for not even considering a trade for an ep that sometimes gets bandies around on here is a load of bumpkin.

thats all im saying. and i feel i have demonstrated that clearly.

[Con Gorozidis]

I reckon we lose at least 3 experienced players through retirement, possibly 5 at years end. Kosi, Milne, Blake gone and Lenny and Schneider a good chance as well.

and losing 5 still leaves us on 13 eps for next year.

[dragit]

I reckon we lose at least 3 experienced players through retirement, possibly 5 at years end. Kosi, Milne, Blake gone and Lenny and Schneider a good chance as well.

and losing 5 still leaves us on 13 eps for next year.

Despite his good form, I would be surprised if CJ was on the list next year… ray needs a new home too, mainly because we have about 10 young guys who need to start playing his position… Hopefully Lenny remains though…

I agree Con, if the right deal came we would be silly not to look at it.

[Con Gorozidis]

maybe i did count blakey! anyoo you get my drift.
we are miles from ending up with only 9 eps.

[Old Mate]

If we cut too deep we'll have zero wins next year.

[Eastern]

Heard Scott Watters on 3AW earlier. Sounded like we will be holding on to our 1st and 2nd round picks. Mentioned that there is a need for key backs and midfielders on our list. So, on the best available system we get Scharenberg, Aish or Sheed with our 1st pick (I wouldn't fully dismiss that we will miss out on Boyd either). Keep our 2nd pick and we could do a bit of a shuffle of picks & players after that !!