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bergsone wrote:WHAT are these issues,its a simple question
Cmon Plug - thats about 5 posters and counting asking you to elaborate on these issues you keep harking on about
I said last week and again tonight i have no idea. How the hell would i know. All i have previously said is a few werent happen when SW said we are rebuilding or wahtever he called it after telling them we werent. I have no idea if that carried on past round 2 or 3 but effort lately from the older guys has me worried. Everyone here can have their own ideas and could be right and I could be completely wrong. I know nothing. Ask my daughter. She will tell you that is true.
bergsone wrote:WHAT are these issues,its a simple question
Cmon Plug - thats about 5 posters and counting asking you to elaborate on these issues you keep harking on about
I said last week and again tonight i have no idea. How the hell would i know. All i have previously said is a few werent happen when SW said we are rebuilding or wahtever he called it after telling them we werent. I have no idea if that carried on past round 2 or 3 but effort lately from the older guys has me worried. Everyone here can have their own ideas and could be right and I could be completely wrong. I know nothing. Ask my daughter. She will tell you that is true.
Surely an opinion shold be based on some sort of knowledgable evidence??
Isnt that What you base your arguments on when you attack other peoples opinions??
Extremely hypocritical if you ask me and i would think the majority of posters whose opinions that you have attacked in the past would feel the same
Devilhead wrote:
Cmon Plug - thats about 5 posters and counting asking you to elaborate on these issues you keep harking on about
I said last week and again tonight i have no idea. How the hell would i know. All i have previously said is a few werent happen when SW said we are rebuilding or wahtever he called it after telling them we werent. I have no idea if that carried on past round 2 or 3 but effort lately from the older guys has me worried. Everyone here can have their own ideas and could be right and I could be completely wrong. I know nothing. Ask my daughter. She will tell you that is true.
Surely an opinion shold be based on some sort of knowledgable evidence??
Isnt that What you base your arguments on when you attack other peoples opinions??
Extremely hypocritical if you ask me and i would think the majority of posters whose opinions that you have attacked in the past would feel the same
Actually that isnt rue. i say everyone can have an opinion unless it is plain ridiculous like Plugger was a poor FF. I will challenge opinions that I think are wrong and then give reasons. i have an opinion here and are happy to be challenged but not based on what you said. I am happy to be wrong and maybe completely wrong. i wasnt wrong about the players being upset earlier in the year IMO and that is why what I said now has some validation.
White Winmar wrote:Well, is anyone starting to see the parallels now?
The use of the word "parallels" now gives your theory a hokey and superstitious edge.
Read what Pav wrote in the first page of the thread. The club's culture has changed significantly since the Watson era. That was then, this is now.
If we're going to make juxtapositions with the past, I would probably be more inclined to compare our current situation to that of Collingwood's after 2003.
Last edited by Sainternist on Sun 02 Jun 2013 9:16pm, edited 1 time in total.
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
This "lost the players" to me is a BS cop out and easy excuse for all to use to blame a coach.
We are going through a major player & structural change. ALL lines: mids, defence, attack are going through major re-structuring this year.
Last yr, we added a few new players, this yr its the most since the early 2000s...You have to expect some upheaval & uncertainty. You have to expect some seniors that were use to a pattern now finding it a new challenge. Some will rise up & deal with it, some won't.
BUT this is exactly what we NEED to do to get back up the ladder. I don't care if a few ageing seniors are finding this tough. They need to toughen up and give support to the young guys. I'd rather have the young guys getting games and improving quickly, rather than worry about the feelings of a few older players.
Look at our 3 most important senior players:
Roo - Playing great, but needs support, he is there and committed
Lenny - Age & injuries catching up with him, but mentally he is committed to the club
Schnieder - Can't get on the park because of injury
The next batch of important senior players:
Monty - doing well, no commitment issues
Dal - some issues, but committed, no different to what his experienced over the years
Fisher - playing down on form, but is that because of our weak defence & out of position? His getting older, forward structures are also changing with more athletoc players too
Milne - Playing poorly, but that is more likely age related, and unsettled forward structure/weak midfield?
Then the other senior players:
CJ: Has been a great tager for us, but the club/coach is changing the approach here, looking for players that can hurt both ways
Dempster: some injuries, just ok
Gilbert - was doing ok before injured, nothing spectacular, but no worse that the last few years
Gwilt - Struggling, but again, some of it could be knee related and new defensive roles/structure?
So to me, that's more a symptom of the structural changes we are experiencing & the ageing of players, with maybe one or two struggling with the coach & his demands.... And if thats the case so be it. I'd rather have this promising batch of youngsters getting games than stoking egos of the older guys.
Nup Watson had a youthful well developed list with only really Shanners missing and f%$#ed the team up. Watters has got the left over scraps of a successful era. Watson took over about the point Ross Lyon did and was a media man who had zero coaching experience.
More like the recession we had to have IMO if we are looking at history. That was to rebalance the Aussie dollar to be internationally competitive after floating it. The benefits are not obvious while you suck up the pain but our economy would never have got to the heights it did otherwise. Be patient folks there is no magic formular just stability in the meantime means we don't cull the list under several regimes like the late 1990s.
kaos theory wrote:This "lost the players" to me is a BS cop out and easy excuse for all to use to blame a coach.
We are going through a major player & structural change. ALL lines: mids, defence, attack are going through major re-structuring this year.
Last yr, we added a few new players, this yr its the most since the early 2000s...You have to expect some upheaval & uncertainty. You have to expect some seniors that were use to a pattern now finding it a new challenge. Some will rise up & deal with it, some won't.
BUT this is exactly what we NEED to do to get back up the ladder. I don't care if a few ageing seniors are finding this tough. They need to toughen up and give support to the young guys. I'd rather have the young guys getting games and improving quickly, rather than worry about the feelings of a few older players.
Look at our 3 most important senior players:
Roo - Playing great, but needs support, he is there and committed
Lenny - Age & injuries catching up with him, but mentally he is committed to the club
Schnieder - Can't get on the park because of injury
The next batch of important senior players:
Monty - doing well, no commitment issues
Dal - some issues, but committed, no different to what his experienced over the years
Fisher - playing down on form, but is that because of our weak defence & out of position? His getting older, forward structures are also changing with more athletoc players too
Milne - Playing poorly, but that is more likely age related, and unsettled forward structure/weak midfield?
Then the other senior players:
CJ: Has been a great tager for us, but the club/coach is changing the approach here, looking for players that can hurt both ways
Dempster: some injuries, just ok
Gilbert - was doing ok before injured, nothing spectacular, but no worse that the last few years
Gwilt - Struggling, but again, some of it could be knee related and new defensive roles/structure?
So to me, that's more a symptom of the structural changes we are experiencing & the ageing of players, with maybe one or two struggling with the coach & his demands.... And if thats the case so be it. I'd rather have this promising batch of youngsters getting games than stoking egos of the older guys.
White Winmar wrote:Well, is anyone starting to see the parallels now?
The use of the word "parallels" now gives your theory a hokey and superstitious edge.
Read what Pav wrote in the first page of the thread. The club's culture has changed significantly since the Watson era. That was then, this is now.
If we're going to make juxtapositions with the past, I would probably be more inclined to compare our current situation to that of Collingwood's after 2003.
plugger66 wrote:Actually that isnt rue. i say everyone can have an opinion unless it is plain ridiculous like Plugger was a poor FF. I will challenge opinions that I think are wrong and then give reasons
Your opinion was based on a lack of substantive evidence and therefore lacked credibilty - just thought I would let you know
.
plugger66 wrote: i have an opinion here and are happy to be challenged but not based on what you said.
But your opinion has no backing - again hypocritical in the extreme
plugger66 wrote: i wasnt wrong about the players being upset earlier in the year IMO and that is why what I said now has some validation.
In your opinion?? Validation?? But i thought you had no idea??
No one on this site has come up ŵith a skerrick of information re issues at the club - yet you seem fairly adamant with your opinion even though you said you had no idea which seems to go against your own principles re having an opinion considering the lack of knowledgable evidence
plugger66 wrote:Actually that isnt rue. i say everyone can have an opinion unless it is plain ridiculous like Plugger was a poor FF. I will challenge opinions that I think are wrong and then give reasons
Your opinion was based on a lack of substantive evidence and therefore lacked credibilty - just thought I would let you know
.
plugger66 wrote: i have an opinion here and are happy to be challenged but not based on what you said.
But your opinion has no backing - again hypocritical in the extreme
plugger66 wrote: i wasnt wrong about the players being upset earlier in the year IMO and that is why what I said now has some validation.
In your opinion?? Validation?? But i thought you had no idea??
No one on this site has come up ŵith a skerrick of information re issues at the club - yet you seem fairly adamant with your opinion even though you said you had no idea which seems to go against your own principles re having an opinion considering the lack of knowledgable evidence
What you need to do is worry less about my opinions and more about your own. If you dont like it then dont read it because I can honestly say i dont care what you think. Ignore is a good option. And I reckon many have put out opinions today with less validation but Im glad you follow mine. it makes me feel important that a person would give a stuff what I said when they seem to not care what I said. Very strange indeed. Now run off and play with all the other validated opinions. They could be probably called facts than.
White Winmar wrote:Well, is anyone starting to see the parallels now?
The use of the word "parallels" now gives your theory a hokey and superstitious edge.
Read what Pav wrote in the first page of the thread. The club's culture has changed significantly since the Watson era. That was then, this is now.
If we're going to make juxtapositions with the past, I would probably be more inclined to compare our current situation to that of Collingwood's after 2003.
I wouldn't say hokey or superstitious, but I could've used a better word. Similarities might have been the one. Parallel in the mathematic sense means two lines that remain equidistant and never converge. In the colloquial sense the term suggests that synonyms are parallels, which is where I was going with this. Happy to concede to your argument, Sainternist. Now, does anyone see the similarities between now and then? Please discuss.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
plugger66 wrote: What you need to do is worry less about my opinions and more about your own. If you dont like it then dont read it because I can honestly say i dont care what you think. Ignore is a good option. And I reckon many have put out opinions today with less validation but Im glad you follow mine. it makes me feel important that a person would give a stuff what I said when they seem to not care what I said. Very strange indeed. Now run off and play with all the other validated opinions. They could be probably called facts than.
Wow seems you have an issue with being made to look silly
Much like I have an issue with posters such as yourself spreading scurrlious rumours and hiding behind them as opinions without evidence
plugger66 wrote: What you need to do is worry less about my opinions and more about your own. If you dont like it then dont read it because I can honestly say i dont care what you think. Ignore is a good option. And I reckon many have put out opinions today with less validation but Im glad you follow mine. it makes me feel important that a person would give a stuff what I said when they seem to not care what I said. Very strange indeed. Now run off and play with all the other validated opinions. They could be probably called facts than.
Wow seems you have an issue with being made to look silly
Much like I have an issue with posters such as yourself spreading scurrlious rumours and hiding behind them as opinions without evidence
I maybe made to look silly occasionally but not by amateurs like you. Really you need to keep it in your age group. Kindergarten is a good start. I would love to know this rumour i spread but then again you never make sense so today shouldnt be any different. I really hope your parents got their money back from your schooling. No one should pay for one who is so poor at actually reading what is written. Now run away little boy and go to sleep. You can the dream about me but at least we wont have to read the rubbish you write about me. What a laugh you are. Good after such a poor game.
Last edited by plugger66 on Sun 02 Jun 2013 10:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well BJ is firing and playing like a star at Essendon this year.
He dropped his head and was half arsed last season, like quite a number of our senior players this season.
Watching on from next to the bench today the players were flat as a tac right from the start. Very little energy nor enthusiasm for their teammates emminated from the boundary line today. It really appeared like they were just going through the motions. In the first term Rooey on field about 5 meters from the boundary swore loudly at a teammate (didnt see who) to "get on 17" (North player). He was totally pissed off, and that was early on.
i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
It looked to me as though Watters and his team have lost control of the situation on the weekend...
Prior to that, I was willing to have some belief that he is planning a well measured approach to rebuilding toward another tilt.
But the huge loss by our youngsters on Saturday to Melbourne's youngsters, followed by a smashing on Sunday by an average team... now I am not so sure...
Watters really seems tactically inept: it is not that hard to pick out opponents strengths, yet these strengths always seem to be on display when teams play us, with no attempt to curtail them...
Today, north forwards just had acres of space to make leads into, in the middle regions of the ground... we were not even able to position ourselves to force leads wide...
Could well be Watson no. 2..
I just hope the recruiting this year is for the long term! Giving up anything at all for Brown is a big error, for example...
Go away you little little moronic lose. I will say what I think and that is what I think but I have the courage to say i have no proof at all. No wonder people laugh in your face.
ljpoyz wrote:no need to be a flog all of the time p66...
plugger66 wrote:
Go away you little little moronic lose. I will say what I think and that is what I think but I have the courage to say i have no proof at all. No wonder people laugh in your face.
P66 being hypocritical in the extreme again
First to scream foul when someone personally attacks him - pulling the 'going the man" card - but more than happy to do so himself when caught between a rock and a hard place
I havent personally attacked him in my questioning at all - furthest I went was to call him hypocritical which I have proven without any shadow of a doubt
Shameful posting and very disappointed that he would even hint at issues behind the scenes (basically rumour mongering) about the club wirthout any clear factual evidence which he demands from others when he wants answers to other poster's opinions
ljpoyz wrote:no need to be a flog all of the time p66...
Why Lipoyz? P66 was defending himself and you've taken that line out of context. I was actually looking forward to his views until he got questioned and became abusive.
