Luke Ball could captain Collingwood

[BigMart]

And the point was

That over the journey, our admin or, football dept has had no idea on how to build player, team, list, club, organisation.... Made huge mistakes that have been costly....

Poor decisions at all levels at various stages.... That has been the difference, to say Hawthorn.

[bergholt]

Poor decisions at all levels at various stages.... That has been the difference, to say Hawthorn.

Didn't Hawthorn lose Gary Ablett? Sounds like that was pretty incompetent seeing as they would have won about five more flags with him and his son in the brown and gold.

[plugger66]

People rarely leave great organisations if they are not asked to...... People leave StK

Often that is how great organisation are judged, by how many want to be there... Or retention

A little story,

I grew up in the NW Coast of Tasmania and played in the NTFL. A club called Ulverstone were and still are the powerhouse.... At all levels. Hated by all other clubs (jealous), loved by their supporters and Ulverstone players were loyal to the core, ruthless and unrelenting. The expected to win... Never hoped!
I distinctly remember them having over 100 players training in 1990 and 40 alone in the under 19's many missing out on games whilst at Penguin only 10 minutes away they could barely get full teams... Why didn't fringe players just travel down the road and get a full game?? They wanted to wear the great jumper, the wanted to be a part of a successful club, they wanted to be a part of premierships... The wanted to represent the mighty Ulverstone and wear their jumper. They wouldn't consider leaving. Whilst basket cases can't keep players, great clubs have players knocking down there doors....

Collingwood, Vermont, Clarence, centrals, subiaco, noble park, Frankston YCW, Man U..... People want to play for them

You must have missed that the AFL now have a draft and trades.. Doesnt really matter if people want to play with that club or not and it is rubbish anyway these days. Players just want to play basically anywhere in the AFL.

Have no idea why you are mentioning a club in Tassie and somehow comparing it to the saints today. It could have been relevant in the 80's but has nothing to do with AFL footy these days.

[st.byron]

Ball left because he is a sook plain and simple. He was asked to lift his game so the coach could use him the way he the coach wanted to. Ball rather than taking note and work on these like thousands of other footballers have done in all levels of football decided to turn his back on his mates and leave. A lot of the blokes he burnt and left had watched him get far more money than them for years prior for minimal out put due to injury. Ball had the choice to prove Lyon wrong and win a flag with his mates but was selfish and sooked off to Collingwood where apperently he worked harder than he ever has to get fit. What a dog why didnt he do that at the Saints. Got no time for the likes of Ball at any level of football.

Nope. You're wrong Curly.
He just couldn't meet Lyon's benchmark of running flat-out 50% of the game. Lyon couldn't see past this. Never mind his ball getting ability and toughness. Never mind his willingness to go head first into packs. He just physically couldn't run flat out 50% of on-field time. Saying he's a sook because he couldn't is like saying he's a sook because he couldn't grow a couple of inches. People are gifted different levels of ability in different facets of the game. Cousins for example - he could run and run and run and run and run. Some guys just have more endurance and ability in this.
Lyon farked us over completely in losing Ball. Malthouse didn't mind his running ability. And he's got a premiership medal to prove it. A disaster for the club to lose a player of that calibre for absolutely nothing. Didn't need to lose him - he didn't want to leave. And then we lost him for no return. Thanks Ross.

[samuraisaint]

Poor decisions at all levels at various stages.... That has been the difference, to say Hawthorn.

Didn't Hawthorn lose Gary Ablett? Sounds like that was pretty incompetent seeing as they would have won about five more flags with him and his son in the brown and gold.

...and a certain 300 game 500 goal kicking CHF by name of Stewie Loewe.

[samuraisaint]

People rarely leave great organisations if they are not asked to...... People leave StK

Often that is how great organisation are judged, by how many want to be there... Or retention

A little story,

I grew up in the NW Coast of Tasmania and played in the NTFL. A club called Ulverstone were and still are the powerhouse.... At all levels. Hated by all other clubs (jealous), loved by their supporters and Ulverstone players were loyal to the core, ruthless and unrelenting. The expected to win... Never hoped!
I distinctly remember them having over 100 players training in 1990 and 40 alone in the under 19's many missing out on games whilst at Penguin only 10 minutes away they could barely get full teams... Why didn't fringe players just travel down the road and get a full game?? They wanted to wear the great jumper, the wanted to be a part of a successful club, they wanted to be a part of premierships... The wanted to represent the mighty Ulverstone and wear their jumper. They wouldn't consider leaving. Whilst basket cases can't keep players, great clubs have players knocking down there doors....

Collingwood, Vermont, Clarence, centrals, subiaco, noble park, Frankston YCW, Man U..... People want to play for them

You must have missed that the AFL now have a draft and trades.. Doesnt really matter if people want to play with that club or not and it is rubbish anyway these days. Players just want to play basically anywhere in the AFL.

Have no idea why you are mentioning a club in Tassie and somehow comparing it to the saints today. It could have been relevant in the 80's but has nothing to do with AFL footy these days.

...and incorrect anyway - plenty of great players have left succesful clubs to play for us - Jezza, Gehrig, Aaron Hammill, Lawrence, Cazaly etc.
Richmond are an example of a succesful club which had a toxic culture to the core. Fights between players in the change rooms, suppporters screaming for coaches' heads, spitting on their own players as they leave the field. Would you like to support a club like that?

[gringo]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

[plugger66]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

[gringo]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

You can identify crap because it's all you write. What bits don't you agree with you ignorant old bastard? My proof that Collingwood took a program of HGH is that the AFL drug testing was alerted to a large number of their players straight after the 2010 GF having raised levels that were with in legal limits. They might just be pushing boundaries but they none the less used a program because it showed up. Dim wit.

[plugger66]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

You can identify crap because it's all you write. What bits don't you agree with you ignorant old bastard? My proof that Collingwood took a program of HGH is that the AFL drug testing was alerted to a large number of their players straight after the 2010 GF having raised levels that were with in legal limits. They might just be pushing boundaries but they none the less used a program because it showed up. Dim wit.

So Luke Ball took them? Got proof?

Well lets see what is crap. He didnt knuckle down. How do you know? And how can he make sure the Saints do a proper trade? And that stuff about Armo and Ball is made up rubbish unless what people here mirrors the footy club. And how do know Ball got super fit? My guess is MM didnt need to to run and spread as much as RL did. Not even sure about the pies lacking ball winners compared to us. Anyway I wont get personal. I will just say what you have written is pretty much crap.

[gringo]

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

You can identify crap because it's all you write. What bits don't you agree with you ignorant old bastard? My proof that Collingwood took a program of HGH is that the AFL drug testing was alerted to a large number of their players straight after the 2010 GF having raised levels that were with in legal limits. They might just be pushing boundaries but they none the less used a program because it showed up. Dim wit.[/quote]


So Luke Ball took them? Got proof?

Well lets see what is crap. He didnt knuckle down. How do you know? And how can he make sure the Saints do a proper trade? And that stuff about Armo and Ball is made up rubbish unless what people here mirrors the footy club. And how do know Ball got super fit? My guess is MM didnt need to to run and spread as much as RL did. Not even sure about the pies lacking ball winners compared to us. Anyway I wont get personal. I will just say what you have written is pretty much crap.[/quote]

He didn't want to stay and improve what ross had told him he needed to improve- didn't knuckle down.
He demanded that he go to collingwood and used a loophole in the rules to manipulate getting there.
Ball got super fit- he had muscles for the first time after one season at the Pies and trimmed the puppy fat.
Pies said they thought Ball and Jolly completed their puzzle as they were lacking an inside ball winner and a dominant ruck.

[plugger66]

Ball didnt have muscles. Now that is funny. Lost puppy fat. Probably funnier. And were you in the conversation with RL and bally?

[gringo]

To me he definitely muscled up as soon as he hit the pies. Even his jaw seemed to become bigger which is still the biggest sign that some one uses HGH huge lower mandible growth. Check Libby Tricketts jaw- she isn't a known drug cheat but unless she has a particularly well formed lower jaw I'm always suspicious. Anyway look at the pics below from around the same time one after being at the Pies for a short time- he got noticeably fitter looking.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-ne ... 5843452142
http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/ba ... 03467.html

[plugger66]

To me he definitely muscled up as soon as he hit the pies. Even his jaw seemed to become bigger which is still the biggest sign that some one uses HGH huge lower mandible growth. Check Libby Tricketts jaw- she isn't a known drug cheat but unless she has a particularly well formed lower jaw I'm always suspicious. Anyway look at the pics below from around the same time one after being at the Pies for a short time- he got noticeably fitter looking.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-ne ... 5843452142
http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/ba ... 03467.html

Now I know you only have one eye. How did you lose sight in the other?

[st.byron]

He didn't want to stay and improve what ross had told him he needed to improve- didn't knuckle down.

Gringo you're on the same page as Curly and you're both off the mark. Lyon's problem with Ball was that he couldn't run flat-out 50% of his on field time. Ball was around 46 or 47%. This was a benchmark Lyon used for his mids. And if you couldn't do it, then he marked you down. This is what happened with Ball. Incredible really that Lyin was so inflexible and bloody minded. So much so that he was willing to let Ball go rather than lower his benchmark for Ball.
The guy just couldn't do it. Endurance is not his strongest suit. Simple.

[maverick]

People rarely leave great organisations if they are not asked to...... People leave StK

Often that is how great organisation are judged, by how many want to be there... Or retention

A little story,

I grew up in the NW Coast of Tasmania and played in the NTFL. A club called Ulverstone were and still are the powerhouse.... At all levels. Hated by all other clubs (jealous), loved by their supporters and Ulverstone players were loyal to the core, ruthless and unrelenting. The expected to win... Never hoped!
I distinctly remember them having over 100 players training in 1990 and 40 alone in the under 19's many missing out on games whilst at Penguin only 10 minutes away they could barely get full teams... Why didn't fringe players just travel down the road and get a full game?? They wanted to wear the great jumper, the wanted to be a part of a successful club, they wanted to be a part of premierships... The wanted to represent the mighty Ulverstone and wear their jumper. They wouldn't consider leaving. Whilst basket cases can't keep players, great clubs have players knocking down there doors....

Collingwood, Vermont, Clarence, centrals, subiaco, noble park, Frankston YCW, Man U..... People want to play for them

Most people play for Vermont and noble because of green stuff nit the jumper
There have been a few that have left united Ronaldo, beckham, tevez to name three
The pies for years opulent gt anyone to go there
This is bs

[st.byron]

Most people play for Vermont and noble because of green stuff nit the jumper
There have been a few that have left united Ronaldo, beckham, tevez to name three
The pies for years opulent gt anyone to go there
This is bs

I reckon the wealthier clubs do have a definite advantage when it comes to attracting players on the move. Judd and Ball to name a couple recently. Agree that it's the dollars and not the jumper these days.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Haven't read all the replies but I see this has turned into another 'punch on' between supporters. Good luck to Ball.... But seeing him in a Saints guernsey is a distant memory. His fate is of secondary importance to me.

[samuraisaint]

...and who knows how he will come back from a knee...
could be he goes okay..maybe, maybe not.
Just have to wait and see...

[Superstar]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

You can identify crap because it's all you write. What bits don't you agree with you ignorant old bastard? My proof that Collingwood took a program of HGH is that the AFL drug testing was alerted to a large number of their players straight after the 2010 GF having raised levels that were with in legal limits. They might just be pushing boundaries but they none the less used a program because it showed up. Dim wit.

I don't think NOT failing a drug test proves they are cheats. That's flawed logic.


Anyway, good luck to Luke Ball, time to move on.

[maverick]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

Lance passed his drug tests too

[plugger66]

When Ball was playing for us we weren't that concerned with him leaving as we thought Armo would take his 20 possessions a game and add to it the following season. The development wasn't quite as swift as we would have liked and the rest is history. I think we gambled on that and backed the robust Armo over an injury plagued and somewhat limited player with an incredible ability to contest the disputed ball.

Lyon probably doesn't rate the guys who get dirty as highly as the Dal Santo types who will steal the ball while on his feet and dish it off with class. Ball suited Collingwood because they lacked a few really driven ball winners who could get it on hands and knees and dish off to their classy outsiders.

Ball got super fit at the pies hanks to Dr HGH and a massive weights program. Ball may not have ever been driven to get as strong if he's stayed. I can't like the guy after he didn't knuckle down when challenged or at least repay some of our investment by not allowing himself to be traded for zilch. He did the dirty on us and didn't seek to do the best by the supporters even if he had issues with the administration.

What a lot of crap about HGH. Stupid comment. Got any proof? No of course not. And the rest of what you have written is complete crap as well.

Lance passed his drug tests too

So if you pass the test you may be cheating? Dont get the logic.

[CURLY]

He didn't want to stay and improve what ross had told him he needed to improve- didn't knuckle down.

Gringo you're on the same page as Curly and you're both off the mark. Lyon's problem with Ball was that he couldn't run flat-out 50% of his on field time. Ball was around 46 or 47%. This was a benchmark Lyon used for his mids. And if you couldn't do it, then he marked you down. This is what happened with Ball. Incredible really that Lyin was so inflexible and bloody minded. So much so that he was willing to let Ball go rather than lower his benchmark for Ball.
The guy just couldn't do it. Endurance is not his strongest suit. Simple.

Apparently hes fitter than he ever was at StKilda so clearly he could have got yhat 3% extra. He chose not to with StKilda and left. The bloke let us and his mates down.

[CURLY]

People rarely leave great organisations if they are not asked to...... People leave StK

Often that is how great organisation are judged, by how many want to be there... Or retention

A little story,

I grew up in the NW Coast of Tasmania and played in the NTFL. A club called Ulverstone were and still are the powerhouse.... At all levels. Hated by all other clubs (jealous), loved by their supporters and Ulverstone players were loyal to the core, ruthless and unrelenting. The expected to win... Never hoped!
I distinctly remember them having over 100 players training in 1990 and 40 alone in the under 19's many missing out on games whilst at Penguin only 10 minutes away they could barely get full teams... Why didn't fringe players just travel down the road and get a full game?? They wanted to wear the great jumper, the wanted to be a part of a successful club, they wanted to be a part of premierships... The wanted to represent the mighty Ulverstone and wear their jumper. They wouldn't consider leaving. Whilst basket cases can't keep players, great clubs have players knocking down there doors....

Collingwood, Vermont, Clarence, centrals, subiaco, noble park, Frankston YCW, Man U..... People want to play for them

Those clubs you mention are generally the highest paying clubs in their leagues. We had a club in our league thst was being bankrolled by z wealthy buisnessman. They offerered more money to seconds footballers than mist clubs payed there best player. They had Moorcroft Bullen Haynes and Henneman all straight from Ess lists. There supporters spoke about how proffesional they where and culture and so on. They then went broke mid season one year lost everyone where due to be relegated so left the comp. Money buys pkayers.

[The Redeemer]

Look it sucks that we somehow let a quality midfielder leave however it happened.

With free agency now in I guess we can now do the same to other clubs.

Fact is we now have cash to burn so let's 'Luke Ball' some other clubs in hope of building for another run at the big one.