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heard a footy commentator say this morning that hawthorn's hopes for the premiership rest squarely on rioli's shoulders.....no-one's going to say that about ben...well not this year anyway.......i hope ben goes on to star....and captain the saints.....but is he in the same league as rioli..???...no....not at the moment
Probably because nobody rates us as a premiership contender. Our hopes do actually rest on the shoulders of our only ruckman.
Very overrated review of Rioli, but probably quite accurate for us, unfortunately...and could be a reason for us not going deep into the finals, with Big Mac having to take on 2 very good ruckmen for most teams (surely we'd be making a big play for Jon Griffin if available?).
Funny that I was asked this question about Rioli on the weekend. My comment was that it'd be heartbreaking to have a player like him in and out with injury every week...he can't have a long career ahead of him for that reason, IMO.
Don't get me wrong Rioli is a very good player however I think he is overrated due to the excitement factor. What he does is amazing he just doesn't do it enough to be considered a genuine A grade forward like Milne or an A grade midfielder like Dal Santo. Mind you a lot of the so called experts would consider him an A grader and top 50 or so player in the comp. All just opinions...
Old Mate wrote:Don't get me wrong Rioli is a very good player however I think he is overrated due to the excitement factor.
Exactly! There's a fair amount of showmanship in what he does - not that everyone can do that. Yes, he does some brilliant stuff, but I also can't see what all the excitement is about...he doesn't do it nearly as often as a superstar should. I would like him in our team, but not for only the dozen or so games he manages per season.
From a mutual supporter point of view you have to love the Buddy and Cyril show. Cyril is still young and have room for a lot of improvement. I'm certainly happy we took Mac from the two especially with Mac's quick development. He's still 5 years away from his peak for a ruckman. So much upside for the big bloke.
Old Mate wrote:From a mutual supporter point of view you have to love the Buddy and Cyril show. Cyril is still young and have room for a lot of improvement. I'm certainly happy we took Mac from the two especially with Mac's quick development. He's still 5 years away from his peak for a ruckman. So much upside for the big bloke.
Correct you can be happy with the selection. The selection can even by right. Which it is IMO. We needed a ruckman then and now.
Doesn't mean the player isn't a star and in front of opposition player. In AFL terms Rioli is miles ahead. And 16 out of 17 clubs would take him first. In reality probably 17.
If Ball was still here, people would still rate him ahead of Judd.
Old Mate wrote:From a mutual supporter point of view you have to love the Buddy and Cyril show. Cyril is still young and have room for a lot of improvement. I'm certainly happy we took Mac from the two especially with Mac's quick development. He's still 5 years away from his peak for a ruckman. So much upside for the big bloke.
Correct you can be happy with the selection. The selection can even by right. Which it is IMO. We needed a ruckman then and now.
Doesn't mean the player isn't a star and in front of opposition player. In AFL terms Rioli is miles ahead. And 16 out of 17 clubs would take him first. In reality probably 17.
If Ball was still here, people would still rate him ahead of Judd.
Don't know. Mac's currency has skyrocketed this year. I couldn't see the Saints offloading Mac for Rioli straight swap especially with Gardy's retirement. I reckon there would be a few other teams that would take Mac as well. Also doesn't change the fact that some consider Rioli overrated. What does he do better than Betts and Milne? They all apply pressure, Rioli maybe a bit more however he doesn't kick anywhere near the amount of goals that those two do. I don't think I'm being too one-eyed.
Remember he broke his ankle in early 2002 and missed 4 months
He played in the wizard cup GF in 2004 and played 10 games in a team that finished in a prelim at 20yo
Season 5
9th in the best and fairest in 2006 on 107 votes ( 1 vote behind gehrig and hudghton who finshed equal 7th on 108)( dal and bj equal 5th on 115)
So really he was 8 votes off 4th........421 disposals
Season 6
2007.....third in the Best and Fairest.....502 disposals
Season 7
2008.......six in the best and fairest.......579 disposals
Season 8
Apparantly his first good season
Third in the best and fairest....second time.....670 games
Season 9
Runner up......745 possesions
I would say he has been pretty handy for a while
Recieved brownlow votes in all bar 1 season of his career
BigMart wrote:The same montagna who was a rising star in 2003
Remember he broke his ankle in early 2002 and missed 4 months
He played in the wizard cup GF in 2004 and played 10 games in a team that finished in a prelim at 20yo
Season 5
9th in the best and fairest in 2006 on 107 votes ( 1 vote behind gehrig and hudghton who finshed equal 7th on 108)( dal and bj equal 5th on 115)
So really he was 8 votes off 4th........421 disposals
Season 6
2007.....third in the Best and Fairest.....502 disposals
Season 7
2008.......six in the best and fairest.......579 disposals
Season 8
Apparantly his first good season
Third in the best and fairest....second time.....670 games
Season 9
Runner up......745 possesions
I would say he has been pretty handy for a while
Recieved brownlow votes in all bar 1 season of his career
You silly silly man. How long did that take? Enjoyable.. Good to know I can make you waste 35 mins of your life.
Bet you a gazzilion dollars Rioli gets an AA before his eighth season. That's right i said it took eight years for Montagna to become elite. AA fairly indicative of being elite.
Your the one that said handy. Obviously a fan of being handy. Lucky I said elite.
I pay my bets. Hope you do. I'll be able to retire before I'm 30. Then I'll be able to construct factual posts that take hours, detailing information I already knew!
To explain that joey montagna has been a high quality midfielder since 2006
Cyril (who will be aa this year, even though 10 other are more deserving) has never even ventured into the midfield for a game....he is nothing more than a handy small forward.....with 5 other elite small fwds who are better...we have one
And another who is as good
Stats sometimes tell an actual truth....opinions are just that
To explain that joey montagna has been a high quality midfielder since 2006
Cyril (who will be aa this year, even though 10 other are more deserving) has never even ventured into the midfield for a game....he is nothing more than a handy small forward.....with 5 other elite small fwds who are better...we have one
And another who is as good
Stats sometimes tell an actual truth....opinions are just that
He is overrated.....and is nowhere near elite
And
Plenty of elite mids have never been AA....
Stats dilute actual truth also. Like mixing in first year stats through the cycle of a career. Especially that only 4 years old.
Rioli is a gun. You make yourself look foolish trying to argue otherwise.
Maybe start a new thread, similar to the go game/tv dispute. This one should be: can you really have an opinion if you don't actually watch a player at all.
My answer is that you shouldn't to able to. Just my opinion though.
To explain that joey montagna has been a high quality midfielder since 2006
Cyril (who will be aa this year, even though 10 other are more deserving) has never even ventured into the midfield for a game....he is nothing more than a handy small forward.....with 5 other elite small fwds who are better...we have one
And another who is as good
Stats sometimes tell an actual truth....opinions are just that
He is overrated.....and is nowhere near elite
And
Plenty of elite mids have never been AA....
Stats dilute actual truth also. Like mixing in first year stats through the cycle of a career. Especially that only 4 years old.
Rioli is a gun. You make yourself look foolish trying to argue otherwise.
Maybe start a new thread, similar to the go game/tv dispute. This one should be: can you really have an opinion if you don't actually watch a player at all.
My answer is that you shouldn't to able to. Just my opinion though.
Even stats in a game can be rubbish especially since he only used possessions. What about tackles, assists and even chasing and harassing which obviously isnt a stat. Even the excitement around the team when he kicks a magical goal as happens with us with Milney.
Anyway didnt this thread start with who would be a better pick for us. Right now it may actually be Ben but lets be honest if Rioli was the pick we may have won one and maybe two GF'd because he certainly could have easily been worth at least one point and could even have been worth up to 2 goals. No one will ever know but we do know Ben didnt play in either of our close GF's and you would have expected Rioli would have. I am very happy to have Ben now but I wish we had Rioli in our last 2 years.
Can do some amazing things within a game, but is nowhere consistent enough yet to be labelled a "gun".
Kicks less goals, has less disposals than Milne and Schneider. Doesn't have a big impact when he plays midfield, and often goes missing for a long time within a game.
He's still young, but IMO Rioli is overrated. However he has plenty of time to improve a find consistency in his game, but it's not there at the moment.
BigMart wrote:If rioli is such a superstar.......why cant he get the pill more than 15 times a game....
When absolute small stars....like montagna, mark murphy, luke power ablett, brent harvey and others regularly get 25-35???
Why isnt such a gun......a midfielder
Joey once got 38 possesions and kicked 5 in a game.....would take cyril 2 of his best games to match that
Are you talking about the same Montagna that took eight years to become an elite player at AFL level.
You embarrass yourself so easily. It's actually entertaining, with each and every post it gets worse.
Saintsational.. The place where we like to rate opposition players - even if we don't watch them playing except against the Saints.
Why play the poster Spinner?
Mart is only giving his opinion, why the personal stuff?
Unnecessary.
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For mine I've only ever assumed that Cyril was terrific because he has such a great highlights reel - that and he broke in to a team that won the flag in his first year.
Hearing other's viewpoints on his consistency will help inform how I watch his progress in the future though.
Hird... The unflushable one is now... just a turd...
The question isn't 'Is/will Big Ben be a better player than Cyril?', the is 'Is Big Ben a better pick than Cyril?'
Considering our club's needs and current standing, looks like a resounding yes. Cyril would be competing with Milne & Schneiderman for a spot. Big Ben has pretty much no competition for his place.
Who would want to see Kosi carry the ruck load for the entire year if it meant having Cyril in the forward line?
There was a question on SEN
Who was the better player out of cyril and buddy
One has a few all aust guernseys,,,a coleman....top three in b&f consistently...won countless games off his own boot and is regarded in the top three key fwds over the last 4 years
BigMart wrote:Why is he any better than eddie betts
In 2011 he is behind betts....
You want an example of overrated
There was a question on SEN
Who was the better player out of cyril and buddy
One has a few all aust guernseys,,,a coleman....top three in b&f consistently...won countless games off his own boot and is regarded in the top three key fwds over the last 4 years
The other is a fwd pocket
Righto mate.
If there was a draft tomorrow...
You can take Betts with pick 1... And myself and the rest of the football world, including Carlton supporters will take Rioli.
Unless he become a bonafide midfielder.....he wont ever be elite...his actual output is simply not good enough.....at this rate, he will become a jeff farmer
Question back to you
Who wouldy you take
Murphy or Rioli
Or
Scully or Rioli
