Hallelujah

[Cairnsman]

I hope their whole disgusting club gets dragged through the mud and their loser supporters get their disgusting smug, deluded grins off their faces in regards to their club's standing in society.

I'm confused by JMs comment then as an example.

What will their club get dragged through the mud for?

Is this not gloating about Collingwood players being associated with a very distressing incident for a young girl and her family.

[Dr Spaceman]

Don't forget we have a trial coming up later in the year whereby some of ours will be called as witnesses.

Not a nice distraction all the same.

Different circumstances admittedly.

Still a guy that never played a game for us drags our names thru the mud.

Well perhaps it will come at a bad time for the Bombers also.

I mean, surely James Hird will be attending Court to give a glowing character reference for Lovett, along with his buddies Kevin Sheedy and John Quinn of course

[Leo.J]

Don't forget we have a trial coming up later in the year whereby some of ours will be called as witnesses.

Not a nice distraction all the same.

Different circumstances admittedly.

Still a guy that never played a game for us drags our names thru the mud.

'Our' you say.

Nice try to divert this away from the Filth.

[Seaford_Saint]

While I don't post often - I read most threads.

While most who have replied to this thread have been negative towards the media and I agree 100% with all the drama dating back to Lovett.

As a victim of sexual assault I hope those posting keep objective about the subject matter and keep on track.

Cheers

Mrs Seaford_Saint under the Mr's account.

[saint tash]

And, where's Derryn? Just checked his website. 'Nothing to say, Your Honour.'

As you said, Leo, happy to run on rumours. The prick even had the gall to try and heighten a sense of anticipation about an impending release of compromising (non-existent) photo about Nick a few months ago.

Yet, what's he had to say about the serious matter currently before the courts (and the chargee was committed for trial this morning in the MMC)? Nothing, nada, ziltch, a globe, blanketyblank.

Good ol' fearless Hinch. A bloated toerag, if ever there was one.

Slightly off topic but at least he names sex offenders. He ticks the box in that regard.

[plugger66]

Did I mention that the victim is someones Daughter.

FFS. How can this make anybody gloat or feel like it is some type of revenge.

This thread makes me sick and ashamed to be a football fan.

I don't think anyone would gloat about the alledged incident happening.

ummm. there are posts in this thread that are doing just that.

There's not a lot (any?) of that...most of this thread is very well expressed and bang on the money. This is all about corruption and the media, how it effects the game and the club we love, and how digusting it all is. It's horrible for the victim, but given the circumstances, this should be front page news regardless of what club it is or who is involved.

I would have thought as saints supporters after all the crap we have been through and then argued how wrong the media are that this actually shouldnt be news at all.

The difference is that this is actually happening (the court case), as compared to most of what has been alledged against us did not happen, or was made up....

So 'no' you thought wrong

But what have the pies players done wrong?

[Leo.J]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You tell me?

[plugger66]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You tell me?

Nothing as far as the cops are concerned so I will go with them as I wasnt there.

[Johnny Member]

I hope their whole disgusting club gets dragged through the mud and their loser supporters get their disgusting smug, deluded grins off their faces in regards to their club's standing in society.

I'm confused by JMs comment then as an example.

What will their club get dragged through the mud for?

Is this not gloating about Collingwood players being associated with a very distressing incident for a young girl and her family.

That's ridiculous.

It's gloating that all the feral slugs that caned the Saints on radio, newspapers, and footy forum's everywhere are on the receiving end of this sort of stuff.

It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that anyone is happy that a rape is alledged to have taken place.

That's just stupid.

[markp]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

[Cairnsman]

I hope their whole disgusting club gets dragged through the mud and their loser supporters get their disgusting smug, deluded grins off their faces in regards to their club's standing in society.

I'm confused by JMs comment then as an example.

What will their club get dragged through the mud for?

Is this not gloating about Collingwood players being associated with a very distressing incident for a young girl and her family.

That's ridiculous.

It's gloating that all the feral slugs that caned the Saints on radio, newspapers, and footy forum's everywhere are on the receiving end of this sort of stuff.

It's absolutely ludicrous to suggest that anyone is happy that a rape is alledged to have taken place.

That's just stupid.

I know that you are not gloating about the alledged crime itself. That is clearly understood. However I'm confused by what you mean on the 'receiving end'

[degruch]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Not that anyone outside of that court case would find out - that's the side of this story I'm interested in.

[Johnny Member]

Did I mention that the victim is someones Daughter.

FFS. How can this make anybody gloat or feel like it is some type of revenge.

This thread makes me sick and ashamed to be a football fan.

I don't think anyone would gloat about the alledged incident happening.

ummm. there are posts in this thread that are doing just that.

There's not a lot (any?) of that...most of this thread is very well expressed and bang on the money. This is all about corruption and the media, how it effects the game and the club we love, and how digusting it all is. It's horrible for the victim, but given the circumstances, this should be front page news regardless of what club it is or who is involved.

I would have thought as saints supporters after all the crap we have been through and then argued how wrong the media are that this actually shouldnt be news at all.

The difference is that this is actually happening (the court case), as compared to most of what has been alledged against us did not happen, or was made up....

So 'no' you thought wrong

But what have the pies players done wrong?

What did the Saints players do wrong that were embroiled in all the s*** pre-season?

Facts were completely irrelevant when everyone was lining up to whip the Saints. Totally irrelevant.

So in this case, I can't see how it's any different. It's wonderful to see these disgusting footy fans backpedal and squirm and haemorrhage hypocrisy after their moral high horsing and outrageous ignorance for the past 12 months.

[plugger66]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

Well there were no charges so it seems they did nothing wrong.

[Johnny Member]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

Well there were no charges so it seems they did nothing wrong.

Nothing illegal.

There's a long way to go to before it's clear that they did nothing wrong.

[Thinline]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You tell me?

Nothing as far as the cops are concerned so I will go with them as I wasnt there.

There's nothing and there's 'nothing worth prosecuting'.

The practical vagaries of our legal system mean the latter isn't pursued and there's little doubt that a profile-related incident like this would have at least some bearing on the decision-making process at the OPP.

I'm obviously not in a position to comment on what the players did or didn't do, but the circumstances around allegations revealed thus far (AS REPORTED, AND BEARING IN MIND THERE'LL BE COUNTER EVIDENCE) are pretty unsettling. As a father of daughters - as Cairnsman alludes to - it all makes for pretty horrible reading, frankly.

[Mr Magic]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

They have been known to use that defense in explaining their non-action where morally adn ethically society may have expected alternate behaviour.

As I read the details of this case (as publishesd) I keep getting an image in my mind of an old movie starring Jodie Foster (I think it was titled Accused?) where she was raped in a bar by a group of men.

She took all those standing on the sidelines and watching to court because not one of them stepped in and tried to stop it.

I don't know what the law says about such a situation but in my mind there is something ethically and morally wrong with people standing around watching a crime being comitted and doing nothing.

If the allegations are proven and it turns out Beames and/or McCarthy just stood there watching, what does it say about them?

(And I would think the same about anybody in that position.)

[plugger66]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

They have been known to use that defense in explaining their non-action where morally adn ethically society may have expected alternate behaviour.

As I read the details of this case (as publishesd) I keep getting an image in my mind of an old movie starring Jodie Foster (I think it was titled Accused?) where she was raped in a bar by a group of men.

She took all those standing on the sidelines and watching to court because not one of them stepped in and tried to stop it.

I don't know what the law says about such a situation but in my mind there is something ethically and morally wrong with people standing around watching a crime being comitted and doing nothing.

If the allegations are proven and it turns out Beames and/or McCarthy just stood there watching, what does it say about them?

(And I would think the same about anybody in that position.)

And say they werent and it was exactly the same as the Lovett incident where it happened in a different room. I suppose assumptions are ok in this case as it is the pies. Unlike it seems most here i hope they are completely innocent.

[degruch]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

Well there were no charges so it seems they did nothing wrong.

...well, if you regard lurking around naked in an apartment with an alleged rapist a comfortable position to be in, you're probably right and the whole thing is being blown out of proportion.

Lets face it, the whole story is easily as prickly as the MM case, but without the fanfare. Considering the newsworthy allegations attached to that case, there's no reason why this should not be treated the same way. So why isn't it? Right or wrong, it's a big story. You can't tell me the media is suddenly concerned for the victim.

[Leo.J]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You tell me?

Nothing as far as the cops are concerned so I will go with them as I wasnt there.

The cops were happy that M&M had no case to answer also, yet they seem to still get plastered everywhere, and accused of being rapists 7 years on.

These guys were in the same room as an alleged rape, well actually next to them, yet we're not meant to be allowed to hear about about.

For a while there our club was getting put throught the ringer because apparently some of our players met a school girl at a school clinic and got her pregnant... While all along it was not true, and easily provable yet the media decided to ignore the facts.

Not forgetting that one of the players involved in todays story was alleged to have been involved with the same school girl, yet his name never made it to print.

Then the nude picture scandal came along and the next thing we know were having gang bangs, and players are being rumoured as being gay, relating to these pictures that were stolen from a lap top by the girl in question.

Then as Saints Tash reminded us we have the Lovett saga, where player who never actually played a game for the club is now and forever being aligned with our club, rather than being a former Essendon player, he's a Saints player (Not to mention James Hird was the one who gave a character reference for Lovett to the club). Good luck finding him in the record books as a Saints player.

My point being is that unlike all the crap that we've been through, this is actually occuring atm, the Collingwood players may not have done anything wrong, but neither have the St.Kilda football club, yet our brand has been ripped to bits by the media.

So why shouldn't it be news again?

[Cairnsman]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

They have been known to use that defense in explaining their non-action where morally adn ethically society may have expected alternate behaviour.

As I read the details of this case (as publishesd) I keep getting an image in my mind of an old movie starring Jodie Foster (I think it was titled Accused?) where she was raped in a bar by a group of men.

She took all those standing on the sidelines and watching to court because not one of them stepped in and tried to stop it.

I don't know what the law says about such a situation but in my mind there is something ethically and morally wrong with people standing around watching a crime being comitted and doing nothing.

If the allegations are proven and it turns out Beames and/or McCarthy just stood there watching, what does it say about them?

(And I would think the same about anybody in that position.)

And say they werent and it was exactly the same as the Lovett incident where it happened in a different room. I suppose assumptions are ok in this case as it is the pies. Unlike it seems most here i hope they are completely innocent.

Moral compasses can be very very selective sometimes.

[The OtherThommo]

Did I mention that the victim is someones Daughter.

FFS. How can this make anybody gloat or feel like it is some type of revenge.

This thread makes me sick and ashamed to be a football fan.

I don't think anyone would gloat about the alledged incident happening.

ummm. there are posts in this thread that are doing just that.

Where might they be?

People seem to be pleased that the people involved in this case despite being Collingwood players are being named in the media, not happy about what they've been alledged to have done.

What has been printed is what has been said in a court of law, not concocted by some tabloid creative writer, at the expense of our clubs brand.

These two things are a little different.

The collingwood players havent done anything wrong though.

There was evidence presented in the committal hearing that, indeed, the AFL players involved had done something very wrong. I reckon there is still a long way to go with this.

To those who say, 'but, they haven't even been charged', I say 'not yet'.

There is nothing on the books to say all potential charges, against all potential defendents, have to be made at the one time and go through one court case.

I would not be at all surprised if the DPP is running this case because it believes it is the one most likely to succeed and deliver some justice for the girl. And, if they are successful, I am sure they would review the potential for other related charges.

Any decision on whether to proceed with other charges would be influenced by the outcome of the first trial. There is also the potential for the defendent in the first trial to change his plea mid-trial, on the basis of a forecast conviction and the offer of a lenient sentence in exchange for his testimony in subsequent trials. That is precisely how Purana got most of their cases that are still progessing through the courts. There is also the potential for others who may foresee themselves being caught up in any subsequent actions to rediscover their memory, and decide to get out in of what may come, in exchange for not being charged.

The other reason for tackling one case to start with is the state of mind of the alleged victim. There was some common knowledge late last year that the complexity of the whole events of that night, if presented in a single trial of all potential defendents, and bought on the basis of the girl's testimony alone (aside from the forensic evidence gathered in hospital) would be too difficult, particularly for her. Indeed, it is highly likely (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) she felt completely overwhelmed at the prospect of being one out against a defence team for multiple defendents, in a case involving high profile people who had already exercised significant power over her before. And, she had seen the media at work within days of making her allegations.

It is a lot more difficult running cases involving multiple defendents and a single victim (who is the only witness who was present testifying for the prosecution). But, the strength in numbers becomes a liability the minute the ranks look like breaking. The best way to break those ranks is to isolate the individuals. If they have perpetrated the actions presented in evidence in the committal hearing, they will have no allegiance to each other when the cracks start appearing. If they are the type who would carry out such crimes as those alleged, then they'll fold like a crook poker hand when presented with an opportunity to extricate themselves, or receive a lesser punishment.

I really do hope the first case is successful in achieving justice for the girl (and before anyone accuses me of prejudging, read that sentence again). If that outcome is a guilty verdict, then I hope the girl is able to take some comfort from it and participate with a prosecution strategy involving subsequent actions.

Nah, this has a long way to run. Eat the elephant a bit at a time.

[markp]

Unlike it seems most here i hope they are completely innocent.

I don't hope they are 'innocent', because that changes naught for the girl involved, I just hope for justice for all involved.

I'd be curious to know who's paying for David Galbally QC, too.

[Eastern]

Don't forget we have a trial coming up later in the year whereby some of ours will be called as witnesses.

Not a nice distraction all the same.

Different circumstances admittedly.

Still a guy that never played a game for us drags our names thru the mud.

'Our' you say.

Nice try to divert this away from the Filth.

I think saint tash was refering to the Lovett trial that starts next month where as many as five of our players could/will be called as witnesses !!

[Thinline]

But what have the pies players done wrong?

You'd reckon that's what the court case will help to determine.

Who knows, maybe they were present but slept through the whole thing.

They have been known to use that defense in explaining their non-action where morally adn ethically society may have expected alternate behaviour.

As I read the details of this case (as publishesd) I keep getting an image in my mind of an old movie starring Jodie Foster (I think it was titled Accused?) where she was raped in a bar by a group of men.

She took all those standing on the sidelines and watching to court because not one of them stepped in and tried to stop it.

I don't know what the law says about such a situation but in my mind there is something ethically and morally wrong with people standing around watching a crime being comitted and doing nothing.

If the allegations are proven and it turns out Beames and/or McCarthy just stood there watching, what does it say about them?

(And I would think the same about anybody in that position.)

And say they werent and it was exactly the same as the Lovett incident where it happened in a different room. I suppose assumptions are ok in this case as it is the pies. Unlike it seems most here i hope they are completely innocent.

Moral compasses can be very very selective sometimes.

How so?

As far as we know, one alleged incident involved significant proximity, and the other alleged incident took place out of view behind a closed door.

I don't have much difficulty rationally distinguishing the reported circumstances at all.