Luke Ball

[Teflon]

Just getting cranky because some people cant see the actual truth, from what they want to believe to be true....

Some want to see luke fall over, just to vindicate the clubs decision....fact is, every week he makes more of a mockery of it, and it pisses some people off....and then they have to therefore delude themselves in order to accept what occured and believe ot was right....

Why be delusional??

Why not just honest......hell, we have let go even better players (although generally we got something in return)

Accept the fcuk up.....

I wish him all the best.......because i admired the way he played for us
A real warrior at times

So do you know something that we don't know?

Because from what I read listened to and seen, he left for money.

He was getting over paid, and under performing at the expense of other players.

If he stayed on the money he was asking, and then someone who deserved the money left, what would we be all saying now?

He might be a good bloke but he left for cash... call me delusional I suppose.

Spot on Leo.

The only delusional ones are those that hero worship a guy,pretend to "know" he's a leader (how Im not so sure) and then want to bleat non stop "its Ross Lyons fault, its Ross Lyons fault" without admitting the ANY of the role Luke Ball played in his own departure.

These delusional clowns then try and pretend St Kilda fans are trying to claim Lukes departure as a win for the club....when I've not seen 1 thread on here even claim that?

For them the reality is its not about who won/lost in the Ball saga - or even the conduct of both parties...its pure and simple wanting to rub Ross Lyons nose in it....

Its odd...these same delusional ones appear on this site only after a loss (again to tell us all what an abject failure Lyon is) - yet I cant recall 1 thread started denoting some of the good Lyon has done from them???

Funny bout that.

[Dr Spaceman]

I think my username says all you need to know about my feelings on the matter...

You want us to redraft Miles?

A bit belated MM but:

[Dr Spaceman]

Isn't this the guy that used to play for the Saints?

[bigcarl]

He was getting over paid, and under performing at the expense of other players.

Correct. He was so far behind Lenny as a midfielder for much of that time that it's not funny.

Is it about the pecking order is it? Who is better then who?

At Collingwood he probably sits behind Swan and Pendlebury, maybe even Thomas. Think he cares?

He has his role.

When Luke was with us a fit Lenny Hayes was doing Luke's "role" better than he ever could.

Team balance became an issue.

Do you really need two specialist in and under grunt players? Unfortunately Bally didn't have the other strings to his bow to be able to play elsewhere.

I'd have liked Luke to stay, but he chose not to. He was a good fit for Collingwood but not for us at the time.

Sure he'd be handy right now with Lenny injured, but that would be keeping young Jack Steven out of the side.

[kosifantutti23]

Gun person, very good footballer......good leader

Pure and simple

And everyone fcuking knows it....

This thread is not about you.

[Richter]

That is what I'll never forgive him for. He proved that as far as Luke Ball was concerned, it was all about him, and not the team.

This.

[BigMart]

At least attempt to open two eyes when giving a comment....

Sounds like childish dummy spits to me.....

Keep on convincing yourselves that the club managed the situation well....

Collingwood.....luke ball

Stk......Zero

List management team sacked......

[Johnny Member]

Just getting cranky because some people cant see the actual truth, from what they want to believe to be true....

Some want to see luke fall over, just to vindicate the clubs decision....fact is, every week he makes more of a mockery of it, and it pisses some people off....and then they have to therefore delude themselves in order to accept what occured and believe ot was right....

Why be delusional??

Why not just honest......hell, we have let go even better players (although generally we got something in return)

Accept the fcuk up.....

I wish him all the best.......because i admired the way he played for us
A real warrior at times

So do you know something that we don't know?

Because from what I read listened to and seen, he left for money.

He was getting over paid, and under performing at the expense of other players.

If he stayed on the money he was asking, and then someone who deserved the money left, what would we be all saying now?

He might be a good bloke but he left for cash... call me delusional I suppose.

Spot on Leo.

The only delusional ones are those that hero worship a guy,pretend to "know" he's a leader (how Im not so sure) and then want to bleat non stop "its Ross Lyons fault, its Ross Lyons fault" without admitting the ANY of the role Luke Ball played in his own departure.

These delusional clowns then try and pretend St Kilda fans are trying to claim Lukes departure as a win for the club....when I've not seen 1 thread on here even claim that?

For them the reality is its not about who won/lost in the Ball saga - or even the conduct of both parties...its pure and simple wanting to rub Ross Lyons nose in it....

Its odd...these same delusional ones appear on this site only after a loss (again to tell us all what an abject failure Lyon is) - yet I cant recall 1 thread started denoting some of the good Lyon has done from them???

Funny bout that.

Personally, I sit somewhere in the middle.


Certainly don't hero worship anyone - especially Ball. But it was very costly for us that we lost him, in more ways than one too.
We lost a good player, and a very good off-field leader (from all reports) - and what we lost was what our biggest threat for the flag gained.


My opinion (and it's just that, I don't have any insode info at all) is that he was gone the second the siren went in the 09 GF.
I reckon the use of him, or lack thereof, was a clear sign that he was no longer considered to be in the top echelon at the club. Maybe not even in the top half.


So am I spewin we lost him? Yep. Am I spewing that Collingwood got him? Yep.


But, do I blame the club? Do I think the club could/should have done anything differently? I don't really know.

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?



The reason this topic just keeps coming up, and just keeps getting everyone so emotional, is that no one knows the truth.

We probably never will. No one knows how much money he's on, or what we offered him. There's plenty of speculation, and plenty of rumour - but I'm yet to see anything concrete.

The only thing we do know, is that accoring to Misson, Ross Lyon didn't trust him enough physically in the 09 Grand Final.

So once that happens, it's always going to be hard to keep a player that is being wooed by other clubs.

[BigMart]

Whe did trust r.eddy and mini though.....

Hindsight can be used to make judgement in this case....unfortunately...

And thats why everyone is a bit emotional, collingwood dudded us..

[SainterK]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

[Johnny Member]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

Is that your opinion? Or a fact?


Again, I'm on the fence with this whole thing. The reason for that is, all I hear are opinions.
I haven't heard any real facts about it at all.

[SainterK]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

Is that your opinion? Or a fact?

Again, I'm on the fence with this whole thing. The reason for that is, all I hear are opinions.
I haven't heard any real facts about it at all.

Fact - Clean bill of health from 2007, confirmed by Luke.

Fact - Two games with 10 or less disposals prior to him being dropped in 2009.

Fact - Asked to work on some things, confirmed by Luke.

Fact - He is playing better now, my opinion, I'd be surprised if you disagree

[Mr Magic]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

Is that your opinion? Or a fact?


Again, I'm on the fence with this whole thing. The reason for that is, all I hear are opinions.
I haven't heard any real facts about it at all.

What would you consider to be a real fact?

It was widely reported at the time that St Kilda offered Ball a contract worth 1 million over 3 years - I believe Lyon was actually quoted on the Friday of trade week, either just before or just after the 2pm deadline?

Ball set a price of 500k per season for 2 seasons on his head at the time of nominating for the draft.

Ball has agreed to play next year for virtually nothing 'to assist Collingwood's salary cap position' according to the articles earlier this year.

It's just a sign of what a 'great guy' he is - always thinking about the team before himself.


And again - I don't care that Ball left for better opportunities (whatever they are). He's entitled to do wahtever he wants to, it's his career and his life to live.He's not the first adn he certainly won't be the last Saints player to leave for what they believe are valid reasons.

BUT I don't believe he needed to denigrate the Coach/Club to do it.
His draft manipulation would always have worked.

And the lauding of his 'great character' by some in light of this is, IMO, just another opportunity by them 'to have a go' at the Coach/Club.

[Moccha]

s*** this thread is still going. I started this as a joke. Hang ups, hang ups, hang ups

[Mr Magic]

s*** this thread is still going. I started this as a joke. Hang ups, hang ups, hang ups

Yep, and you know what Moccha?
I'll keep responding as long as some posters keep posting 'revisionism' as I see it.

[Johnny Member]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

Is that your opinion? Or a fact?


Again, I'm on the fence with this whole thing. The reason for that is, all I hear are opinions.
I haven't heard any real facts about it at all.

What would you consider to be a real fact?

It was widely reported at the time that St Kilda offered Ball a contract worth 1 million over 3 years - I believe Lyon was actually quoted on the Friday of trade week, either just before or just after the 2pm deadline?

Ball set a price of 500k per season for 2 seasons on his head at the time of nominating for the draft.

Ball has agreed to play next year for virtually nothing 'to assist Collingwood's salary cap position' according to the articles earlier this year.

It's just a sign of what a 'great guy' he is - always thinking about the team before himself.


And again - I don't care that Ball left for better opportunities (whatever they are). He's entitled to do wahtever he wants to, it's his career and his life to live.He's not the first adn he certainly won't be the last Saints player to leave for what they believe are valid reasons.

BUT I don't believe he needed to denigrate the Coach/Club to do it.
His draft manipulation would always have worked.

And the lauding of his 'great character' by some in light of this is, IMO, just another opportunity by them 'to have a go' at the Coach/Club.

But just because he was offered more money to go somewhere else, doesn't neccessarily mean he left for the money.

Personally, I believe the sitting on the pine during the GF was the most likely reason for him wanting to leave.


Just my opinion though.

[markp]

Do the people who think he didn't leave over money think he still would've left if we'd kept him on the same coin he was on?

Of course he wouldn't.

[SainterK]

To be honest, what puzzles me is why you would offer a bloke that has so many limitations in his athletic ability (according to Misson's book) and his skill level, so much money! Did we really put $1m over 3 years on the table for him?

Because they knew he was capable of better?

Which is also why he was dropped.

Clean bill of health from 2007, yet compare what he produced for St Kilda compared to Collingwood.

The fact the coaching staff expected better, totally justified.

That they expected him to knuckle down and work harder, totally wrong.

But why would he suddenly work harder for Collingwood?

This is when it is my opinion S43.

Collingwood accomodated Luke as he was, St Kilda asked him to work on things.

So he went for the fit, rather than fitting in.

It happens.

[Johnny Member]

Do the people who think he didn't leave over money think he still would've left if we'd kept him on the same coin he was on?

Of course he wouldn't.

For what it's worth, I reckon he would have.

I reckon he was gone the second the 2009 GF siren went.

[Mr Magic]

Do the people who think he didn't leave over money think he still would've left if we'd kept him on the same coin he was on?

Of course he wouldn't.

For what it's worth, I reckon he would have.

I reckon he was gone the second the 2009 GF siren went.

You may well be correct, none of us actually knows.

But I'll ask you this.
Do you think his sitting on the pine after half time in the GF was a surprise to him?

I don't.

I believe that he knew full well before the game what the plan re his game was going to be.

I don't for one second believe that he didn't know he was going to be played in that manner.

They had their gameplan.
They had their strategies.
They knew what they were going to do with their personnel.

You may argue/debate that they may not have been correct, but to think Ball didn't know what was going to transpire means you feel he was left out of all the planning that took place prior to the game?

My own personal opinion is that Ball was gone the instant Connors (his manager) found out Collingwood were interested in him.
And that happened weeks before the GF.

What caused the Saints a real problem over this was that another of Coonnors clients also came onto the market adn he (Jolly) was even more appealing to Collingwood. Therefore Collingwood no longer had teh 'fair compensation' to give St Kilda so that the deal could get done without angst.
Connors then had to try and negotiate a deal for Ball to get to Collingwood.
IMO he decided to use the tactics of getting everybody surrounding Ball to denigrate the Coach/Club in an effort to force St kilda's hand at teh negotiating table.
I believe Ball went along with this tactic.

That we got 'screwed' is undeniable.

What should we have done in the circumstances, given that we'd decided we wanted Andrejs Everitt (or like) and were prepared to give up Ball to get him?
Collingwood refused to give up Nathan Brown (whom we considered to be the equivalent of Everitt) and tried to do a deal with NM to get us a draft pick that would satisfy Western Bulldogs for Everitt.

For whatever reasons, it didn't work.


According to some we should proably have:-
gotten rid of the coach becasue Luke Ball is a great character
or
accepted anything Collingwood offered us

rather than have stood our ground on the issue.

Who knows, they may be right?

[Johnny Member]

According to some we should proably have:-
gotten rid of the coach becasue Luke Ball is a great character
or

I think that's madness if people think that.

I personally don't think 'list management' is Lyon's strength. But you can't sack a coach over something like that.

accepted anything Collingwood offered us

rather than have stood our ground on the issue.

Who knows, they may be right?

We would have been losers either way.

Right now, can you imagine the outrage had we had been seen to swap Ball for some dude who couldn't get a game for us?

Once he was going, we were stuffed.

[Mr Magic]

According to some we should proably have:-
gotten rid of the coach becasue Luke Ball is a great character
or

I think that's madness if people think that.

I personally don't think 'list management' is Lyon's strength. But you can't sack a coach over something like that.

accepted anything Collingwood offered us

rather than have stood our ground on the issue.

Who knows, they may be right?

We would have been losers either way.

Right now, can you imagine the outrage had we had been seen to swap Ball for some dude who couldn't get a game for us?

Once he was going, we were stuffed.

Couldn't agree more with either of those 2 statements of yours.

Which is why I cannot look at the Ball situation as simply as some want to.

[Johnny Member]

According to some we should proably have:-
gotten rid of the coach becasue Luke Ball is a great character
or

I think that's madness if people think that.

I personally don't think 'list management' is Lyon's strength. But you can't sack a coach over something like that.

accepted anything Collingwood offered us

rather than have stood our ground on the issue.

Who knows, they may be right?

We would have been losers either way.

Right now, can you imagine the outrage had we had been seen to swap Ball for some dude who couldn't get a game for us?

Once he was going, we were stuffed.

Couldn't agree more with either of those 2 statements of yours.

Which is why I cannot look at the Ball situation as simply as some want to.

But I think some people get a bit mixed up between other posters being critical of the club and the coach at times, with wanting him sacked!

You can think he and the club make mistakes, but at the same time still rate him and support the club!

[Mr Magic]

Certainly.

But how does one judge if a coach, player, administrator, boot-studder or anybody else has actually made a mistake or not?
Surely to do that you would need some actual knowledge about what they've done and why?

Otherwise the criticism is pure conjecture, which is also fine.

What I object to continually is when this 'conjecture' is portrayed by some as 'knowledge' on their behalf.

When clearly it is not.

[Megsie]

geez wonder if Mr Ball would look so good if playing for Melbourne right now?
Didn't hurt his standing in footy to go to a ready made premiership side.
Money was always an issue with him.
Good on you Ross for not allowing a money grabbing player to dictate terms
of his value to you & st.kilda.
He must have been taught his values in life by a family who values their
worth by dollars!! Sorry Luke you now look like the "filth" & act like them too.