Jason Gram!!!!!!!!

[Teflon]

Gram has played well since 09

He missed a pre season and ten weeks in 2010, never got fit.....he did pluck over 30 and was bog in one game...

He has been inconsistent....and has fallen away with the team.....he is a free wheeling player, who does not fit the conservative disciplines of the lyon gp all that well...

As much as he is a whipping boy here....lyon rates him in our top echelon, and has stated this...

What any of this fails to take into account is THE problem with Gram.

Its not that he cant "at times" accumulate the ball and pull out a 30poss game. Its the 13 clangers and direct turn overs to oppo goals that go with it.

Watching the Hawks against Dons in qtr 1 right now - just blown away by their footskills out of defence, Gibson, Guerra, Suckling (kid) pure execution.....then I think of Gram (and he aint alone).

In 09 our pressure meant we could carry his pie floaters. Turn overs and everyone under pressure when they in 2011 means we no longer can.

[Teflon]

I'm going to make a bold prediction and say that Gram has played his last game for the Saints...

Im going to say you will be proven wrong in about 9 days. Hope Grammy come out and proves many of you wrong.

Me too.
This thread is as bad as I have seen on here

why?

geez that cr@p annoys me.

Lets not discuss players and if we (a bunch on no name footy tragics on an internet forum) reckon theyre any good or not......on afooty forum??

Well...I never!...the temerity!!

FFS 2 things:

1. Gram cant kick for shyzen. Weve all known this forever. According to Hardwick at Richmond...if you cant kick they dont want you. But we do?? - time to wisen up.

2. Im sure no one at St Kilda really cares what we think.

Discuss away. Who wants a forum where the conversation goes like:

Poster 1 - "Gee I love our players".
Poster 2 - "Me too. They never do anything wrong".
Poster1 - "Maybe we should keep them all till the age of about....43?"
Poster2 - "Agreed. With so much love there surely the Board can support this".
Poster 1 - "Im off to beddy byes"
Poster2 - "night, night".

So instead of a forum where we all love our players, let's have deep thinkers that want to throw away a player that finished runner up in a B&F, virtually won a Norm Smith, injured all of last year and showing no less interest than BJ or Roo this year.

Wow, we must have plenty of proven outside players just ready to replace him.

There's the blind love Im talking about...lets allkeep Grammy campaign" cause he played a good GF in 09 when the Cats left him alone???

While we're there lets re-sign Kosi for 5 years cause he played 4 good games 4 yrs ago????

Heck, lets keep em all and allow the players to decide when they move on...cause afterall the individual players are the club...aren't they???

Here's a novel idea...lets have a discussion about how we improve the St Kilda FC on a saints footy forum that CAN involve who we trade/select/like/dont like (as footballers) without blind, mindless, rose-colored dribble.

[BigMart]

He is not the only poor kick in the team.....but he is definitely a poor kick, always has been

[Old Mate]

He is not the only poor kick in the team.....but he is definitely a poor kick, always has been

Clinton Young can't get a game for the Hawks. We should look at him. Great left boot on him.

[bobmurray]

Here's a novel idea...lets have a discussion about how we improve the St Kilda FC on a saints footy forum that CAN involve who we trade/select/like/dont like (as footballers) without blind, mindless, rose-colored dribble.

I agree...dump the numpties..regardless of their name.....i am sick of failure

[Teflon]

He is not the only poor kick in the team.....but he is definitely a poor kick, always has been

True, but its so frustrating, not just Gram but geez I sat there against Cats the other week and I thought, my god we are poorly skilled by foot.

It cant go on.

When everyone mirrors your strategy by playing defensive presses the ONLY differential you have is execution. If you cant do that you fall away dramatically. We are, by foot. Its like having a super product that every other store copies.....so your differential is excellent service. our "service" is our footskills and they are ordinary.

Thank god some of the kids show they can hit a target. Shame they aint 3rd year players and I fear the gap before they become game-changers is to large.

Whatever we recruit from now on better have foot skills - HAS to be massive priority...no more "he's a goer....but turns it over under pressure..."

[Enrico_Misso]

Crippled by injury. I still remember his balk, 20 metre runs then booming 60 metre kicks with rooey marking in the the forward 50 running back with the flight. Ah, the good ol' days.

Who then missed the goal to draw the game.
Ah, the good ol' days

[maverick]

I'm going to make a bold prediction and say that Gram has played his last game for the Saints...

Im going to say you will be proven wrong in about 9 days. Hope Grammy come out and proves many of you wrong.

Me too.
This thread is as bad as I have seen on here

why?

geez that cr@p annoys me.

Lets not discuss players and if we (a bunch on no name footy tragics on an internet forum) reckon theyre any good or not......on afooty forum??

Well...I never!...the temerity!!

FFS 2 things:

1. Gram cant kick for shyzen. Weve all known this forever. According to Hardwick at Richmond...if you cant kick they dont want you. But we do?? - time to wisen up.

2. Im sure no one at St Kilda really cares what we think.

Discuss away. Who wants a forum where the conversation goes like:

Poster 1 - "Gee I love our players".
Poster 2 - "Me too. They never do anything wrong".
Poster1 - "Maybe we should keep them all till the age of about....43?"
Poster2 - "Agreed. With so much love there surely the Board can support this".
Poster 1 - "Im off to beddy byes"
Poster2 - "night, night".

So instead of a forum where we all love our players, let's have deep thinkers that want to throw away a player that finished runner up in a B&F, virtually won a Norm Smith, injured all of last year and showing no less interest than BJ or Roo this year.

Wow, we must have plenty of proven outside players just ready to replace him.

There's the blind love Im talking about...lets allkeep Grammy campaign" cause he played a good GF in 09 when the Cats left him alone???

While we're there lets re-sign Kosi for 5 years cause he played 4 good games 4 yrs ago????

Heck, lets keep em all and allow the players to decide when they move on...cause afterall the individual players are the club...aren't they???

Here's a novel idea...lets have a discussion about how we improve the St Kilda FC on a saints footy forum that CAN involve who we trade/select/like/dont like (as footballers) without blind, min
dless, rose-colored dribble.

No rose coloured glasses here, just don't like seeing hysterical rubbish.

Gram kicks the ball too hard always has, can't pass over 30 metres to save his life, but he can run and carry, and has/had speed and is a reasonable defender.

Before this year (who can tell this year) I had Gram in our top 10 players (2010 injury aside), he hasn't slipped that badly, the stars around him have collapsed, exposing him and a few like him as well.

[To the top]

So let's pass some comments on the lack of disposal skills of the likes of:-

Dawson - only has a left side and does not have the ability to dispose downfield.

Baker - the opposition love to see the ball in his hands because he can not kick over a jam jar.

Blake - ditto for Baker.

Milne - possessions other than within goal scoring range are very, very average and another who can not kick over a jam jar.

At least Gram can get the pill, run with it and then kick 60 metres.

Where the problem is then is identified by looking at our goal scoring list for this season - and last.

Simply, we do not have any small/mid players with pace in our forward line so no one can run onto the long, opportunity, zone busting ball that Gram delivers when no other option exists.

Look at why Essendon cut us up.

[barks4eva]

Gram is a total liability, I would trade him at the end of the year for a third or fourth round pick if anyone is stupid enough to take him!

Half his positions end up directly with the opposition, actually I think was it 70% against Geelong.

I rate Lyon as a tactical coach but his team selection is as dumb as it gets.

He carries on about poor execution of skills and yet he keeps selecting Gram as if you don't know what to expect already.

Wise up, play the kids and if Gram plays another game with St kilda it's a total waste of time and space and an opportunity lost to bring on a kid like Smith who has the skills.

On that, WHY on earth was Smith dropped to begin with, he was finding the ball, using it alright, has pace yet was dropped and has not been seen since, what's the go there?

I'd much rather be getting games into someone like Smith rather than wasting time with Gram who's skills are absolutely pathetic.

If you're going to get a game as an outside player then the fundamental non negotiable surely is that your foot skills are top notch!

[gringo]

I don't think he has been right since being injured and maybe a reoccurrence of his o.p. or some thing similar. It was his groin in the finals that held him back.

For the information of the baggers the lions were pissed he went home after managing his injuries for a few years, he grew up supporting the Saints. Leigh Matthews has stated that he was really crapped off with Gram walking out for nothing. The lions had to manage their cap when they had more stars running around than just about any team in history, they had to let him go.

A guy that can kick 60 meter goals isn't a bad kick, some thing must be wrong with his groin and I would think he will be at the Saints for a while.

[Teflon]

So let's pass some comments on the lack of disposal skills of the likes of:-

Dawson - only has a left side and does not have the ability to dispose downfield.

Baker - the opposition love to see the ball in his hands because he can not kick over a jam jar.

Blake - ditto for Baker.

Milne - possessions other than within goal scoring range are very, very average and another who can not kick over a jam jar.

At least Gram can get the pill, run with it and then kick 60 metres.

Where the problem is then is identified by looking at our goal scoring list for this season - and last.

Simply, we do not have any small/mid players with pace in our forward line so no one can run onto the long, opportunity, zone busting ball that Gram delivers when no other option exists.

Look at why Essendon cut us up.

While we are there lets review Grams "ball hardness" ability and 1 arm tackle attempts and lets compare that to equally skilled players aka Clint Jones?....Baker?.....Blake?????

You get the feeling Gram has more deficiencies in his game than just disposal. So not only does he turn the ball over like a clanger king - 1 on 1 in defence he shirks the hard ball.

Trade bait if we are to improve.

Would he play in Cats or Pies defence? (you only benchmark against the best).

Play a kid.

[Teflon]

I don't think he has been right since being injured and maybe a reoccurrence of his o.p. or some thing similar. It was his groin in the finals that held him back.

For the information of the baggers the lions were pissed he went home after managing his injuries for a few years, he grew up supporting the Saints. Leigh Matthews has stated that he was really crapped off with Gram walking out for nothing. The lions had to manage their cap when they had more stars running around than just about any team in history, they had to let him go.

A guy that can kick 60 meter goals isn't a bad kick, some thing must be wrong with his groin and I would think he will be at the Saints for a while.

Mate smell the caffeine. Thwe guys disposal - apart from the odd long bomb goals we all get excited about - has ALWAYS been suspect. He shanks the footy and "shins" it with mongrel punts way to often. Whats next.....he was borne with OP?

As Barks said - if you are gonna be an outside player purely (and he is cause he hates a hard ball get) then FFS hit the target.

In todays game its all pressure. You dont 3 days to size up a kick. Gram cant.

[stinger]

Half his positions end up directly with the opposition, actually I think was it 70% against Geelong.

are those positions, sexual....or just jobs he's held with the saints??????

[SaintPav]

So let's pass some comments on the lack of disposal skills of the likes of:-

Dawson - only has a left side and does not have the ability to dispose downfield.

Baker - the opposition love to see the ball in his hands because he can not kick over a jam jar.

Blake - ditto for Baker.

Milne - possessions other than within goal scoring range are very, very average and another who can not kick over a jam jar.

At least Gram can get the pill, run with it and then kick 60 metres.

Where the problem is then is identified by looking at our goal scoring list for this season - and last.

Simply, we do not have any small/mid players with pace in our forward line so no one can run onto the long, opportunity, zone busting ball that Gram delivers when no other option exists.

Look at why Essendon cut us up.

You're being very hard on Milney. He is a vastly improved player.

[bobmurray]

Simply, we do not have any small/mid players with pace in our forward line so no one can run onto the long, opportunity, zone busting ball that Gram delivers when no other option exists.

A Gram fan obviously...so was i once...till it got too expensive...

[noreason41]

Wise up, play the kids and if Gram plays another game with St kilda it's a total waste of time and space and an opportunity lost to bring on a kid like Smith who has the skills.

On that, WHY on earth was Smith dropped to begin with, he was finding the ball, using it alright, has pace yet was dropped and has not been seen since, what's the go there?

I'd much rather be getting games into someone like Smith rather than wasting time with Gram who's skills are absolutely pathetic.

Smith??

Are you kidding?
Of all the guys to be getting games into, he can't kick for s***. He's an athlete, but a terrible kick.
He racks up possessions because he can run and run fast, but he can't kick to save his life.

That's the whole problem, we don't even have backups who can kick. The majority of our list has a major skills problem, not just Gram.

While we are there lets review Grams "ball hardness" ability and 1 arm tackle attempts and lets compare that to equally skilled players aka Clint Jones?....Baker?.....Blake?????

You get the feeling Gram has more deficiencies in his game than just disposal. So not only does he turn the ball over like a clanger king - 1 on 1 in defence he shirks the hard ball.

Trade bait if we are to improve.

Would he play in Cats or Pies defence? (you only benchmark against the best).

Play a kid.

And that's what s***s me about Gram more then his kicking disability. I don't notice it when i watch it on tv, but when i see him live, so often he looks soft.
The most annoying thing, is those half-arsed, 1 hand tackles. Like you've got a chance of stopping a guy running at full pace by putting your hand out. [/quote]

[Moods]

So let's pass some comments on the lack of disposal skills of the likes of:-

Dawson - only has a left side and does not have the ability to dispose downfield.

Baker - the opposition love to see the ball in his hands because he can not kick over a jam jar.

Blake - ditto for Baker.

Milne - possessions other than within goal scoring range are very, very average and another who can not kick over a jam jar.

At least Gram can get the pill, run with it and then kick 60 metres.

Where the problem is then is identified by looking at our goal scoring list for this season - and last.

Simply, we do not have any small/mid players with pace in our forward line so no one can run onto the long, opportunity, zone busting ball that Gram delivers when no other option exists.

Look at why Essendon cut us up.

What you fail to take into account is that all those players you mentioned are role players within the team apart from Milne. They are all there to defend, clog up space, nullify an important opponent and give the ball to our ball users. Gram's role is as a ball user. He certainly isn't played as a stopper/nullifier. AS a ball user he's struggling b/c the ball constantly hits the opposition or goes anywhere but to our advantage. Therefore his 'role' within the team is ineffective

As for Milne, well your plain wrong there, but your vindictiveness twds the man only ranks with Bernard Shakely's hatred of Kosi, so fair to say we can dismiss that comment. Virtually everyone bar yourself can see Milne's worth to the team. You don't play 10 years of AFL footy if you can't play. You don't kick 400+ goals if you haven't got some skill either.