Kosi wins this weeks blow torch award

[saintsRrising]

Stanley has delivered nothing yet. He is still to be proven. From what I have seen he will be de-listed at the end of the season. Just my hunble opinion.

Stanley is only 20...so of course he is still to be proven.

If every club delisted 20 year old ruckman for underperforming, there probably would be just about zero ruckman left.

For example have a look at Jolly's stats in his first several years.

[saintpeter]

okay saintsrising...i thought he was a little older than that
..but your view on Kosi?

[saintsRrising]

okay saintsrising...i thought he was a little older than that
..but your view on Kosi?

Seems gone and arguably never made it consistently after his first year.

Can't see a position for him.

Only way he may be of some value is if he can take lots of contested marks to then convert some goals, and at present he even struggles to take uncontested ones.

Opposition players know that if you can maintain body contact on him in a marking content tat he is easily nudged off it even when against small opponents. Eery time that happened today Kosi was nudged off the ball.

Is a hazard once the ball hits the ground..and is slow and easily run off and s cannot apply any forward pressure.

Cannot ruck at all.


Ben cannot ruck either at present, but takes contested marks and is smart user of the ball. Not a lot in front of Kosi, but at a smidgeon under 22 still has a lot of potential upside. Kosi has no upside and at best is going to be very ordinary with occasional bursts of a few grabs.

Stanley also has an upside..but yes may or may not make it.

Give him 6-10 games playing as centre square leaping ruckman...and see how he goes.


Suspect that come trade week Lyon will be looking fora ruckman.

If the Saints can scrape into the finals this year, I expect Gardiner to be wheeled out.


Pity that Johnno has done his shoulder as a forward line of Roo, Siposs, Johnno...with Stanley/Ben drifting forward could be something to build on.

[saintpeter]

Thanks for your considered view Saints rising..... looks a bit grim but we have been there before

Me, i still suppoort the team as I have for the past 46 years

[Junction Oval]

He needed to step up today and show "something." Not much competition to beat, trying hard, but cannot take a mark and is nowhere to be seen when the ball hits the ground.

Looking like a sad ending to a person who has given 100% + for the Club.

[SainterK]

I hope they persist, he hasn't had a preseason.

He has given others time to run into form when back from injury, why is Kosi different?

I sat near a 'supporter' in aisle 35 today who disgusted me with his hateful abuse towards Kosi. It was disgraceful, however much someone disagrees with a selection, that kind of behaviour has me shaking my head.

I just don't get how someone can hate on one of our players to the point they almost pop a blood vessel in their head.

[Pwoit]

reasons would take until at least mid 2013 to think of, make it a bit easier, just give us 1 good reason why he should be in the team. just 1.

To s.hit fair weather supporters like you.

that is one good reason.

Now piss off you privileged private schoolboy dope.

[tweedaletomanning]

He needed to step up today and show "something." Not much competition to beat, trying hard, but cannot take a mark and is nowhere to be seen when the ball hits the ground.

Looking like a sad ending to a person who has given 100% + for the Club.

Good Post

Feel very sad for the big guy, just has never been the same since the Giansiracusa clash.

[True Blue Sainter]

Depending on Johnson's injury, would really like to see him given a go at FF, with Roo at CHF, and Siposs/Milne/Schneider/Steven/Cripps hovering around.

Because we can't make the finals, we may as well see what everyone has to offer and give Cahill a couple of games in the tail end of the year to see if he can kick a few goals. Surely he can do no worse than Kosi.

[Little Dozer]

He needed to step up today and show "something." Not much competition to beat, trying hard, but cannot take a mark and is nowhere to be seen when the ball hits the ground.

Looking like a sad ending to a person who has given 100% + for the Club.

Good Post

Feel very sad for the big guy, just has never been the same since the Giansiracusa clash.

Is the club a charity? Kosi has been earning good money for a long time now for nil performance. Just get rid of him already, the fact he was a top draft pick is irrelevant. Sack him immediately...

[kosifantutti23]

Should have been traded at the end of '08. Three wasted years of absolute rubbish, added to the Six years of under performance before that.

Please no more of this he's got a sore ankle crap. He is a great big dud.

'09 was a year of wasted rubbish?

23 games, 48 goals, 11 Brownlow votes.

[To the top]

Some on here miss the point when it comes to who you want in a football side and why.

As someone points out, in 2009 Koschitzke kicked 48 goals and polled well in the Brownlow.

He also saved us games with strong. contested marking deep in defence in the closing, pressure moments of quite a few games.

His fitness concerns were confirmed by the surgery he had after the 2010 season - meaning he has had no pre-season and has now played 1 VFL game and 3 AFL games (missing one with injury).

There are those who think, because he was a Number 2 Draft Pick he should kick five goals a game at least, take 15 contested marks, have 30 disposals a game and sprint after opposition players with the ball at world record speeds.

Mind you, I would sincerely doubt that those holding such expectations have ever graced a football field at senior level.

AFL these days is a contested game around the stoppages - with the skills with the ball under pressure meaning it then morphs to a game of controlling the ball.

So you are reliant on a team effort firstly in gaining and disposing to advantage from stoppages, then disposing to advantage.

Yesterday we got goals from Milne (3 opportunistic goals in the first quarter before they tightened on him taking him out of the game), Riewoldt, who worked his butt off up and down the ground and the rest from our running brigade.

So our goals were coming from feeds and run, not from kicking to contests in the goal square.

What you do take note of when we attack is the structure and therefore the options available.

Only one of these options is used - you can not dispose to the advantage of 2 players both setting up at the same time obviously.

I thought our structure was improved yesterday with Siposs and Koschitzke - and Riewoldt having the licence he had.

And I thought, despite the disposal stats, both Siposs and Koschitzke made good position - even if not used.

This opened it up for those who did score.

That is team football.

Some on here have limited capacity to see a game from the team perspective.

And playing as a forward is becoming more and more difficult the way the game is evolving with numbers back, blocks (how far off the ball?) and pushing with the hands to get your opponent out of the contest.

In passing judgement all facets should be considered.

And I repeat, Koschitzke is a 197cm, 93 kg (I would be surprised if he actually carries that weight at present) utility player who is running into match fitness.

[Con Gorozidis]

Kosi has rarely delivered. he has been with us for 11 years now. time to move on. Stanley has delivered nothing yet. He is still to be proven. From what I have seen he will be de-listed at the end of the season. Just my hunble opinion.

lunacy to de-list 200cm blokes at the age of 20. complete lunacy. people writing stanley off are pre-mature in the extreme. look around the other 16 clubs and vfl/afl history and you wont find many 200cm blokes doing much under the age of 21.

keep stanley.

im pretty sure we have kosi on a contract for 2 more years. shame cos hes a giant witch's hat. completely in-effective.

[Dr Spaceman]

Is the club a charity? Kosi has been earning good money for a long time now for nil performance.

The club decides what they will pay players.

Don't blame Kosi for his pay cheque. 

[stevie]

My theory about Kosi is he always demands at least the second best defender, and that is his value. Same with Tiprat .

Opposition coaches are loathe to roll dice and place lesser backmen on them.

He started so well yesterday too, tackling and that. And those two knees to the head were disgraceful umpiring - no frees then Blake gets pinger for doing the SAME THING!!!!!

[chook23]

TTT many of your comments are true.......but

his effort yesterday in a number of contests (from my viewing position)

were well below par EVEN with consideration to his fitness/awareness/positioning/body strength etc

HE WAS EXPOSED IN SO MANY AREAS .....even as you say he is a "general type of player" that can play a role due to his size/type etc

BUT is a poor option for that type of player at present and in so many other games.......

[thejiggingsaint]

Centre half back? Could the guy be used as a tall defender? I know, that he's not that quick but perhaps being utilised in defence may be his best shot at getting his career back on track? Its going to be a season of experimentation, so why not? At the minute the poor sod is just making up the numbers, which is sad, but something that has to be addressed.
Sorry Koz!

[To the top]

I agree he started very well.

Then copped one hit to the head in a centre square ruck contest, then a second in the exact same circumstances which laid him out and saw him take some time to regain his feet, assisted.

He actually took a third heavy hit to the head in a marking contest a little later.

Perhaps, given our scarcity of ruck options, these were deliberate tactics and deliberate targetting.

No doubt these hits had an impact, perhaps confirmed by the fact that when Blake cramped late and could not make it back to the centre square for the next re-start (hobbling to a cente wing position) they called on Dawson to ruck and not Koschitzke.

Kochitzke was given plenty of bench time after those hits.

Riewoldt was also played "higher" taking ruck contests - as did Fisher.

The club summary was that he was not concussed, but given we did not sub him what else is the club going to say?

"He was mildly concussed but we had to leave him on because we had no other option".

That would open Pandora's box!

[maverick]

I have been a defender for a long, long time, but I am struggling to stay on the wagon.

Yesterday he was as bad as he has ever been IMHO.

We need his contesting for structure and to take pressure off Nick, but when he can get bumped off the ball as easy as he was yesterday...hmmm...

[Bernard Shakey]

I hope they persist, he hasn't had a preseason.

He has given others time to run into form when back from injury, why is Kosi different?

I sat near a 'supporter' in aisle 35 today who disgusted me with his hateful abuse towards Kosi. It was disgraceful, however much someone disagrees with a selection, that kind of behaviour has me shaking my head.

I just don't get how someone can hate on one of our players to the point they almost pop a blood vessel in their head.

I don't like seeing or hearing our supporters hurling abuse at our players either.

Now, don't tell me he hasn't had a preseason, He's had eleven of them but it doesn't seem to make any difference to his performance. Please just accept that he will never be what you and I and all Saints supporters hoped he would be. He is a major liability now and getting worse week by week.

[To the top]

So now we have it!

Perception.

He gets bumped off the ball.

Well, get used to it.

If you are a forward, with concentration on getting your hands on the pill and not concentration and endeavour keeping it out of the hands of your opponent including by seeking sanctuary from the boundary line you can sometimes get hit mid stride and off balance - and you can find yourself on the deck, as a defender can find himself out of the contest if he can not put you off balance and loses a yard in attempting to do so.

So s*** happens and particularly forwards can find themselves out of the contest because of their exclusive concentration on the pill.

I always found it a damn site easier to play as a defender than as a forward.

Stopping the other guy is a hell of a lot easier than beating the other guy.

And you can deploy a lot more tricks as a defender.

[SainterK]

I hope they persist, he hasn't had a preseason.

He has given others time to run into form when back from injury, why is Kosi different?

I sat near a 'supporter' in aisle 35 today who disgusted me with his hateful abuse towards Kosi. It was disgraceful, however much someone disagrees with a selection, that kind of behaviour has me shaking my head.

I just don't get how someone can hate on one of our players to the point they almost pop a blood vessel in their head.

I don't like seeing or hearing our supporters hurling abuse at our players either.

Now, don't tell me he hasn't had a preseason, He's had eleven of them but it doesn't seem to make any difference to his performance. Please just accept that he will never be what you and I and all Saints supporters hoped he would be. He is a major liability now and getting worse week by week.

It was terrible Bernard, the guy was out of control.

Now, he hasn't had a preseason, so I will tell you.

I am not saying he is anything special, just that he is important to us, especially if the season is not gone yet.

We need games into him, and he should get as many as a Gram or Mini before he is dropped, or a Goddard or Gilbert before he turned it around.

Tell me this, did you see the knock, honestly? Did you think it significant?

[maverick]

So now we have it!

Perception.

He gets bumped off the ball.

Well, get used to it.

If you are a forward, with concentration on getting your hands on the pill and not concentration and endeavour keeping it out of the hands of your opponent including by seeking sanctuary from the boundary line you can sometimes get hit mid stride and off balance - and you can find yourself on the deck, as a defender can find himself out of the contest if he can not put you off balance and loses a yard in attempting to do so.

So s*** happens and particularly forwards can find themselves out of the contest because of their exclusive concentration on the pill.

I always found it a damn site easier to play as a defender than as a forward.

Stopping the other guy is a hell of a lot easier than beating the other guy.

And you can deploy a lot more tricks as a defender.

Sounds like a lot of excuses to me.
He's rising 29, not 18, he should be able to counter those tactics by now.
Bumped off the ball and not marking it, but still contesting is OK, going to ground shocked by the contact is terrible.

[Bernard Shakey]

I hope they persist, he hasn't had a preseason.

He has given others time to run into form when back from injury, why is Kosi different?

I sat near a 'supporter' in aisle 35 today who disgusted me with his hateful abuse towards Kosi. It was disgraceful, however much someone disagrees with a selection, that kind of behaviour has me shaking my head.

I just don't get how someone can hate on one of our players to the point they almost pop a blood vessel in their head.

I don't like seeing or hearing our supporters hurling abuse at our players either.

Now, don't tell me he hasn't had a preseason, He's had eleven of them but it doesn't seem to make any difference to his performance. Please just accept that he will never be what you and I and all Saints supporters hoped he would be. He is a major liability now and getting worse week by week.

It was terrible Bernard, the guy was out of control.

Now, he hasn't had a preseason, so I will tell you.

I am not saying he is anything special, just that he is important to us, especially if the season is not gone yet.

We need games into him, and he should get as many as a Gram or Mini before he is dropped, or a Goddard or Gilbert before he turned it around.

Tell me this, did you see the knock, honestly? Did you think it significant?

I saw it and it was a heavy knock. The problem is there's an excuse for him every week according to you and others. He is not up to AFL footy, maybe a spot for him at Brocklesby.

[SainterK]

I hope they persist, he hasn't had a preseason.

He has given others time to run into form when back from injury, why is Kosi different?

I sat near a 'supporter' in aisle 35 today who disgusted me with his hateful abuse towards Kosi. It was disgraceful, however much someone disagrees with a selection, that kind of behaviour has me shaking my head.

I just don't get how someone can hate on one of our players to the point they almost pop a blood vessel in their head.

I don't like seeing or hearing our supporters hurling abuse at our players either.

Now, don't tell me he hasn't had a preseason, He's had eleven of them but it doesn't seem to make any difference to his performance. Please just accept that he will never be what you and I and all Saints supporters hoped he would be. He is a major liability now and getting worse week by week.

It was terrible Bernard, the guy was out of control.

Now, he hasn't had a preseason, so I will tell you.

I am not saying he is anything special, just that he is important to us, especially if the season is not gone yet.

We need games into him, and he should get as many as a Gram or Mini before he is dropped, or a Goddard or Gilbert before he turned it around.

Tell me this, did you see the knock, honestly? Did you think it significant?

I saw it and it was a heavy knock. The problem is there's an excuse for him every week according to you and others. He is not up to AFL footy, maybe a spot for him at Brocklesby.

Glad you can admit that, I honestly think he was concussed.

I didn't make an excuse for him last week, his game was just OK.

Carlton game he was fine.