could we win the flag without riewoldt?

[dcstkfc]

Almost won it without him last season.

Yeah but he was still in the structure, the opposition still had to structure around him being there, and he was influentiual in us actually being there.

We can win games without him, but it's the critical 50/50 games against quality opponents where the true value of someone like Roo comes to the fore.

Wouldn't have made it there without him- Prelim.

[bigcarl]

i actually think we could still win it without him, but not without a dangerous key forward.

I agree with the concept - but not with Goddard at FF.

so which mystical dangerous key forward did you have in mind? tommy walsh?

Kosi

That's what he's there for. We'd be a 5 goal better side with Roo there, yes, but also with Kosi firing.

kosi's a useful foil when riewoldt is drawing the best two defenders every week.

when he's expected to lead the attack and take the best defender, however, he doesn't kick goals.

in any case, this thread is about whether we could win it without riewoldt.

[degruch]

i actually think we could still win it without him, but not without a dangerous key forward.

I agree with the concept - but not with Goddard at FF.

so which mystical dangerous key forward did you have in mind? tommy walsh?

Kosi

That's what he's there for. We'd be a 5 goal better side with Roo there, yes, but also with Kosi firing.

kosi's a useful foil when riewoldt is drawing the best two defenders every week.

when he's expected to lead the attack and take the best defender, however, he doesn't kick goals.

Except for the 50 he kicked last year.

[bigcarl]

Except for the 50 he kicked last year.

With Rewoldt drawing the best two defenders.

Kosi's a good No. 2, but he's not a No. 1. At least as a forward.

Look, i love the bloke and want him to succeed, but i think his future is in the ruck rather than the forward line.

[degruch]

Except for the 50 he kicked last year.

With Rewoldt drawing the best two defenders.

Kosi's a good No. 2, but he's not a No. 1. At least as a forward.

Look, i love the bloke and want him to succeed, but i think his future is in the ruck rather than the forward line.

You could be right, but if he performs like he did for half of last year, we'll have our 4-5 goals a game. We won't get this from BJ.

Roo is great, but of course we can win a GF without him...we nearly won a GF without Plugger, he was (at the time) a huge gap to fill.

[Moods]

i actually think we could still win it without him, but not without a dangerous key forward.

I agree with the concept - but not with Goddard at FF.

so which mystical dangerous key forward did you have in mind? tommy walsh?

Kosi

That's what he's there for. We'd be a 5 goal better side with Roo there, yes, but also with Kosi firing.

kosi's a useful foil when riewoldt is drawing the best two defenders every week.

when he's expected to lead the attack and take the best defender, however, he doesn't kick goals.

in any case, this thread is about whether we could win it without riewoldt.

But YOU asked who would lead the attack? Kosi is the obvious one. I'm not saying we WILL win w/o Roo, but is it beyond the realms of possibility that Kosi will find form? As things stand at the moment, the answer is no, we couldn't win the flag w/o Roo. I'd like to believe that things can change, even within the space of 10 weeks. Who knows what Tommy Walsh is capable of? Who knows whether Stanley will start dragging down some big contested marks?

When I followed the Roys there was a little fella from the Hampden League whose name escapes me. Back in 1986 the Roys made an improbable run for the finals. He came from no where and played his first game in about Rd 12 - had never even trained with the club. He cost Paul Roos the brownlow that year he had such an impact. I know that's 25yrs ago, and I know footy's changed like it's unrecognisable from back then. My point is that things can change in a short space of time. Walsh appears to have many incredible attributes. Not suggesting he will hit the scene like John Coleman, but what I'm saying is that the landscape changes quickly in AFL footy. Blokes find form, young guys start to believe. We CAN still win it w/o Roo, but certain guys in the team NOW need to lift, and SOMEONE needs to stand up and be that key fwd. Not probable, but not impossible.

[bigcarl]

but if he performs like he did for half of last year, we'll have our 4-5 goals a game.

he's never averaged four or five a game in his life, unfortunately. in any case it was a comparativly easy gig in the first half of last year.

all the oppositions resources were aimed at stopping riewoldt and we were flying as a team.

this year, without riewoldt, he is averaging 1.125 goals per game (over 9 games) ... and that includes at least two questionable free kicks.

he's taken 9 marks inside 50.

[degruch]

but if he performs like he did for half of last year, we'll have our 4-5 goals a game.

he's never averaged four or five a game in his life, unfortunately. in any case it was a comparitily easy gig in the first half of last year. all the oppositions resources were aimed at stopping riewoldt and we were flying as a team.

this year, without riewoldt, he is averaging 1.125 per game (over 9 games) ... and that includes at least two questionable free kicks.

he's taken 9 marks inside 50.

Given his past form, he can't possibly improve.

Who averages 4-5 goals a game for a season? Plugger?? Ablett Sr??? The Chief???? That's an unrealistic expectation, even of Roo, but if he can do it for half a dozen games, or just one, we're home.

I think Moods post makes sense to me, except we don't need a 25 year old from nowhere, we need 10% improvement across the park (as the likes of Gwilt and Raph have done this year) and the competition are dust.

[bigcarl]

Given his past form, he can't possibly improve.

no doubt he will improve with riewoldt back in, but this thread is about whether we could win it without rooey.

[Dr Spaceman]

When I followed the Roys there was a little fella from the Hampden League whose name escapes me. Back in 1986 the Roys made an improbable run for the finals. He came from no where and played his first game in about Rd 12 - had never even trained with the club. He cost Paul Roos the brownlow that year he had such an impact.

Mark Dwyer was his name. Ended up at the Saints where he played 1 game. Back in Koroit by 1990. He's often confused with our own Mick Dwyer who coincidentally finished at the Lions!




Anyway, back to the discussion.

[degruch]

Given his past form, he can't possibly improve.

no doubt he will improve with riewoldt back in, but this thread is about whether we could win it without rooey.

That's you answer then. Yes and with improvement from the team...whether you like it or not, that includes Kosi, who is 100% relevant to us winning without Roo.

[bigcarl]

whether you like it or not, that (the team) includes Kosi.

when have i ever said he shouldn't be part of the team? i've said consistently that he'd offer far greater value to the team as second ruck.

[degruch]

whether you like it or not, that (the team) includes Kosi.

when have i ever said he shouldn't be part of the team? i've said consistently that he'd offer far greater value to the team as second ruck.

I think you've modified history a bit there...I've been misquoted!

[bigcarl]

perhaps i misunderstood what you were getting at. it was the "whether you like it or not, kosi is part of the team" bit that may have led to the confusion.

would you care to rephrase it?

actually, after a particularly poor performance a couple of weeks ago, i did say, briefly, he needs a run at sandringham .... in the ruck.

but only to find some form to play in the ruck.

other than that you will find i've been very consistent on this the past month or so.

[degruch]

whether you like it or not, that (the team) includes Kosi.

when have i ever said he shouldn't be part of the team? i've said consistently that he'd offer far greater value to the team as second ruck.

I think you've modified history a bit there...I've been misquoted!

perhaps i misunderstood what you were getting at. it was the "whether you like it or not, kosi is part of the team" bit that may have led to the confusion.

would you care to rephrase it?

How about - Kosi is amongst those who must lift 10% to ensure we are competative in the finals, setting us up for a GF win. He can't be discounted or written off because of his current form.

By the way, I've never subscribed to the 'no Roo, no Saints' theory because (a) Plugger was arguable more important (in context to the team at the time) to the Saints, yet we made a GF after his departure, (b) is a load of crap devised by certain media types to make us look like we tanked and got lucky in the draft, and (c) it derides the abilities of other great players in our team.

[bigcarl]

By the way, I've never subscribed to the 'no Roo, no Saints' theory because (a) Plugger was arguable more important (in context to the team at the time) to the Saints, yet we made a GF after his departure, (b) is a load of crap devised by certain media types to make us look like we tanked and got lucky in the draft, and (c) it derides the abilities of other great players in our team.

i think we have the players to win it without him. i'd arrange them differently, though.

kosi to chf, bj to ff would be another option i'd support.

ross, the boss, can't be faulted on his recent record though.

[St. Luke]

I agree with the Hawthorn comments.

We're not looking too threatening at the moment with a ton of room for improvement. I'd like to think we could...but then I've always been a bit of an optimist in regards to the Saints. It would be awesome having Rewoildt back, but hopefully not early enough that'll risk him re-injuring himself. If/When he comes back, we'll be back in business!

[bigcarl]

How about - Kosi is amongst those who must lift 10% to ensure we are competative in the finals, setting us up for a GF win.

he needs to lift his contribution on the scoreboard by 400%. if he stays forward, let's hope he can hit something resembling form and soon.

btw, i enjoyed the debate. i don't mind playing devil's advocate if it makes people think about different possibilities.

[plugger66]

How about - Kosi is amongst those who must lift 10% to ensure we are competative in the finals, setting us up for a GF win.

he needs to lift his contribution on the scoreboard by 400%. if he stays forward, let's hope he can hit something resembling form and soon.

btw, i enjoyed the debate. i don't mind playing devil's advocate if it makes people think about different possibilities.

Maybe you need to speak to RL then.

[bigred]

Kosi is just cruising.

Trying to stay under the radar until finals...


Yeah.

Its true.

Believe it.

[bigcarl]

How about - Kosi is amongst those who must lift 10% to ensure we are competative in the finals, setting us up for a GF win.

he needs to lift his contribution on the scoreboard by 400%. if he stays forward, let's hope he can hit something resembling form and soon.

btw, i enjoyed the debate. i don't mind playing devil's advocate if it makes people think about different possibilities.

Maybe you need to speak to RL then.

do you reckon he would listen?

ross is the one who's accountable for how we perform. the decisions are on his head.

we can only throw up opinions that may or may not find their way through to him and that he may or may not like.

[rexy]

Yes we can.

Not as likely, but definately possible.

Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle and anyone else in contention, dont have Reiwoldt either? And they are a chance, so why shouldnt we be?

[Beej]

Yes we can.

Not as likely, but definately possible.

Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle and anyone else in contention, dont have Reiwoldt either? And they are a chance, so why shouldnt we be?

Could Geelong win a flag without Ablett? I think so.

Would Collingwood win a flag without... I don't even know who their best player is?? I don't think they have a clear best player, which is a pretty good position to be in.

I don't think Freo can win it but would they be able to without Pavlich? No chance.

TBH I think other clubs' supporters would find it laughable that some of us
are even entertaining the idea of winning it without Roo.

[rexy]

Yes we can.

Not as likely, but definately possible.

Geelong, Collingwood, Fremantle and anyone else in contention, dont have Reiwoldt either? And they are a chance, so why shouldnt we be?

Could Geelong win a flag without Ablett? I think so.

Would Collingwood win a flag without... I don't even know who their best player is?? I don't think they have a clear best player, which is a pretty good position to be in.

I don't think Freo can win it but would they be able to without Pavlich? No chance.

TBH I think other clubs' supporters would find it laughable that some of us
are even entertaining the idea of winning it without Roo.

Dont ask them then.

I support the saints and i think we could.

Like I said, not as likely but possible.

[Dr Spaceman]

I support the saints and i think we could.

Like I said, not as likely but possible.

Agree.

It would be extremely difficult and a helluva lot of things would have to go right for us to do it.

But to positively say we CAN'T win it without Roo is, I believe, ridiculous.