Why you shouldn't mess with the footy gods...

[degruch]

Let's stop being keyboard heroes for one moment and just realise that all things considered, we ARE ON THE SAME FARKING TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not on any team that involves this clown...I've never read such waffly pseudo-zen drivel in all my life. Now we're expected to trot out concise bullet point responses to someone who honestly believes not keow-teowing to his/her favourite players makes our club a karmic flop!?! Incredible.

As for 'keyboard heros', how long do you think Twirly would last talking like this to your face?

[twirlyhair]

OK guys, in light of recent events I think we should forget bout the bulls*** from this thread and just stick together.

things could get messy and the last thing we need is infighting.

Regardless of what others may think, I am sure twirly hair is a St Kilda supporter. He/she may well have just been frustrated at time of typing this post. Ever think of this?

Let's stop being keyboard heroes for one moment and just realise that all things considered, we ARE ON THE SAME FARKING TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your ..well ... I will call it support, and yes I am a St.Kilda Supporter and have lived through a lifetime of underachievement. Dare I say it, but with another scandal hitting us, I do believe it is fair for me to continue to question just how strong our club is. Unlike any people on this site, I am not afraid to take out the mirror and have a good hard look at ourselves.

[OneEyedSainter77]

Let's stop being keyboard heroes for one moment and just realise that all things considered, we ARE ON THE SAME FARKING TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not on any team that involves this clown...I've never read such waffly pseudo-zen drivel in all my life. Now we're expected to trot out concise bullet point responses to someone who honestly believes not keow-teowing to his/her favourite players makes our club a karmic flop!?! Incredible.

As for 'keyboard heros', how long do you think Twirly would last talking like this to your face?

Whatever.

My point being that - no, I don't even care. I'm just trying to put my post count up.

[degruch]

Let's stop being keyboard heroes for one moment and just realise that all things considered, we ARE ON THE SAME FARKING TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not on any team that involves this clown...I've never read such waffly pseudo-zen drivel in all my life. Now we're expected to trot out concise bullet point responses to someone who honestly believes not keow-teowing to his/her favourite players makes our club a karmic flop!?! Incredible.

As for 'keyboard heros', how long do you think Twirly would last talking like this to your face?

Whatever.

My point being that - no, I don't even care. I'm just trying to put my post count up.

Yes, well, it is all bit hard to fathom where this is all coming from...except from a collage of Big Footy thread headlines.

Go on...have another crack.

[saint vince]

I was the first to respond to your post, and asked you your opinion of Lenny Hayes?

Given that you said we had taken our eye of the most precious assets that we had, and more importantly, the fabric and soul of the club, I was curious as to where you held players like Lenny in regard?

Sorry, with the barrage of abuse I have copped, I missed your response. Yeah Lenny is a legend, and so are so many of our players. i don't question the character of our players, I just think we all need to be reminded of the fragility of clubs and how poor decisions can quickly affect the fabric of a club. Carlton is a case in point. But thanks for your response.

I am not even sure what the 'fabric' of the club means if I was to be honest?

I took your post to imply that by losing Max to retirement, and Ball to Collingwood, that we no longer have heart and soul players.

Could you explain to me please, what this fabric is exactly?

Hey thanks for your legitimate question. Unlike others (with particular mention to Joffaboy) your response deserves a reply. For me, all effective organisations are built on mutual trust and respect. And this gets to the very soul or heart of a club. Clubs that dont have that, and dont demand mutual respect, often fall by the wayside. As much as I love the saints, as an organisation we have a pretty poor record in that regard. I often think back to the way Nicky Winmar held the club to ransom. Whilst he was a genuine superstar, the lack of moral fortitude in the club put us back. The same goes for the way we treated Stan Alves. The fabric or soul of a club is built up over many years, and whilst some disagree, the decisions of last year have put us back and I hope we learn from them.

Exactly what we didn't let BALL do. club before player. buy in as a player or f off. thats what happened to Ball and to Lovett.

I think the fabric of the club stands strong through this. Judgement may be called into it as bad decisions but not the fabric of the club.

[borderbarry]

Our best fullback of all time> I thought he was talking about Zac!!

Anyway, both wrong. It was Verdun... "Good Onya Verdun! " I must have yelled it out hundreds of times.

[aussierules0k]

[kosifantutti23]

I apologize in advance for the filth I am about to type. After many years of blindly loving the Saints, I'm about to transform into a troll or worse, a low grade supporter who should go support Richmond!

How do I find myself in this predicament? Simple. My brain created a thought, I had no control over it, it just appeared and now I can't make it disappear. In light of the treatment twirly has received you'd think it wise to stfu, but I aint scared, so I'll continue.

This idea that dropping Max, Ball and imho Maguire had possibly lowered morale had crossed my mind a few weeks ago. I mentioned it to a few Saints fans, most felt there could be some weight to it. So it was with interest I read the op and the replies. As I read the thread, I felt the replies might as well have been aimed directly at me. After all, I also had the evil thought.

There were some good replies and reasons why not to worry about the fabric, I took them on board.

On the other side of the coin...

Whether or not dumping those players (especially Max) has, did or will have any bad effect on team morale is something neither I or anyone else here knows for certain. We can come to a conclusion if we like, or as in my case, keep our mind open. Maybe a couple of players were affected and the majority not. Who the f really knows?

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought. Of course he may be a troll but if so, some one prove it first, then fire away with the "you aint a saints fan" garbage. Until proof is shown twirly is a troll, I will happily believe he's another long time Saints fan who bleeds for the club. Some of the responses he's received are a sad indictment on this forum. Turns me right off the joint.

The civil reply to twirly for those that didn't like his op was simply...
"I don't agree."

I don't agree

[starsign]

, and dispute the respect shown to our greatest full back off all time.

Who has been disrespecting Spud Frawley? Surely you aren't saying that Max was a better fullback than Spud?

What ignorance and complete disrespect to a guy who captained our club for nearly a decade.

Disgraceful to insult Spud in such a way.

Obviously you dont support the Saints.

Verdun Howell : ( Brownlow) and
(Bob Murray FB in 1966 GF ) won the game for us as much as Breens point
could be consaidered here also , if the OP new anything about us at all!

[degruch]

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought.

No, Twirly has been shot down for being an abusive, condoscending arse-clown.

Whether the ideas posted in the OP are pure Big Footy troll material has not been the issue, it's his/her woeful attitude. Anyone who cares to come on here and take pot shots at every poster who challenges an opinion will be treated the same way, and so they should. Show some respect and 9 times out of 10 you will be treated with respect. Simple.

Aside from that:

Max was not good enough for the team, past his prime due to injury if nothing else. Why replace an excellent FB with a guy past his prime for a GF?

Maguire was a GOP in the VFL last year, why keep him on the list? He's moved on, that's great. He was never going to get a game with our back 6, no matter how many relatives complained to the press.

We lost the GF through poor kicking.

Cousins is a self-centred hack.

Ball was not a team player, he couldn't suck it up and move on, so now he's not a team member. His exit showed how much respect he had for the club. We got nothing for him but pride, we wouldn't be screwed by the Filth or Luke Ball.

Lovett was a calculated risk that didn't pay off. We've lost nothing because of it (except for a beating in the press), he would have been brilliant if he could control himself. Some things are not the clubs fault.

There is plenty of RWB blood still on the team (Lenny, Roo, Blake, Bakes, etc), are they not holding together our 'fabric'.

What is 'fabric', and can the club get some more at Spotlight?

When form is down, and the club's going through a rough patch, it would be nice to see supporters show some fortitude and support the team, rather than complain about letting Russell Greene, Plugger, Everitt, Hall, or Goose go. If you want to pot the club after a few losses, please don't call yourself a Saints supporter within earshot of me.

We have a great team now regaining some confidence, as of the timing of Twirly's original OP...maybe there's something cosmic in that?

Now, in the name of unpredictablilty, here's the entire thread again in semaphore...

[joffaboy]

No you are wrong degruch, apparently there are some who feel they have to control the way others respond to a blatant troll.

I dont know why these people feel they have the right to tell you or me or anyone how they can respond to what was a turgid OP full of straw man arguments and posted EXACTLY at the time we were 17 points down in a game we looked like losing.

It covered no new ground, was a predictable and lazy piece of unthinking critisism, and it got what it deserved.

However some think it is their duty to attempt to control what we do and dont respond to.

This is not a totalitarian society. It is not Communist China. If any of the responses are not within forum rules the moderators have the right to delete, warn or even ban posters.

Why some self appointed censors try to inflicted their standards on others when it is none of their concern is beyond me.

[twirlyhair]

I apologize in advance for the filth I am about to type. After many years of blindly loving the Saints, I'm about to transform into a troll or worse, a low grade supporter who should go support Richmond!

How do I find myself in this predicament? Simple. My brain created a thought, I had no control over it, it just appeared and now I can't make it disappear. In light of the treatment twirly has received you'd think it wise to stfu, but I aint scared, so I'll continue.

This idea that dropping Max, Ball and imho Maguire had possibly lowered morale had crossed my mind a few weeks ago. I mentioned it to a few Saints fans, most felt there could be some weight to it. So it was with interest I read the op and the replies. As I read the thread, I felt the replies might as well have been aimed directly at me. After all, I also had the evil thought.

There were some good replies and reasons why not to worry about the fabric, I took them on board.

On the other side of the coin...

Whether or not dumping those players (especially Max) has, did or will have any bad effect on team morale is something neither I or anyone else here knows for certain. We can come to a conclusion if we like, or as in my case, keep our mind open. Maybe a couple of players were affected and the majority not. Who the f really knows?

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought. Of course he may be a troll but if so, some one prove it first, then fire away with the "you aint a saints fan" garbage. Until proof is shown twirly is a troll, I will happily believe he's another long time Saints fan who bleeds for the club. Some of the responses he's received are a sad indictment on this forum. Turns me right off the joint.

The civil reply to twirly for those that didn't like his op was simply...
"I don't agree."

I don't agree

Whoa!!! Thanks for that! Yeah I have been amazed at the abuse coming my way, and then amazed even further when accused of being abusive myself. I mean what are you meant to do when you are accused of all sorts of things. To be told that you are a troll, when you are offering up an idea about what is most important about our club has dumbfounded me. yes your right, I am a long long long suffering Saints fan, and firmly believe in good club culture equals success. To blindly accept all that those in charge do at the club is right, then we will be dammed. Like I said earlier, the thought police on here dont often like thoughts that challenge their blind loyalty. I guess there is not alot of democracy on saintsational.....now just wait for the next response...here it comes!!

[Dr Spaceman]

I apologize in advance for the filth I am about to type. After many years of blindly loving the Saints, I'm about to transform into a troll or worse, a low grade supporter who should go support Richmond!

How do I find myself in this predicament? Simple. My brain created a thought, I had no control over it, it just appeared and now I can't make it disappear. In light of the treatment twirly has received you'd think it wise to stfu, but I aint scared, so I'll continue.

This idea that dropping Max, Ball and imho Maguire had possibly lowered morale had crossed my mind a few weeks ago. I mentioned it to a few Saints fans, most felt there could be some weight to it. So it was with interest I read the op and the replies. As I read the thread, I felt the replies might as well have been aimed directly at me. After all, I also had the evil thought.

There were some good replies and reasons why not to worry about the fabric, I took them on board.

On the other side of the coin...

Whether or not dumping those players (especially Max) has, did or will have any bad effect on team morale is something neither I or anyone else here knows for certain. We can come to a conclusion if we like, or as in my case, keep our mind open. Maybe a couple of players were affected and the majority not. Who the f really knows?

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought. Of course he may be a troll but if so, some one prove it first, then fire away with the "you aint a saints fan" garbage. Until proof is shown twirly is a troll, I will happily believe he's another long time Saints fan who bleeds for the club. Some of the responses he's received are a sad indictment on this forum. Turns me right off the joint.

The civil reply to twirly for those that didn't like his op was simply...
"I don't agree."

I don't agree

Whoa!!! Thanks for that! Yeah I have been amazed at the abuse coming my way, and then amazed even further when accused of being abusive myself. I mean what are you meant to do when you are accused of all sorts of things. To be told that you are a troll, when you are offering up an idea about what is most important about our club has dumbfounded me. yes your right, I am a long long long suffering Saints fan, and firmly believe in good club culture equals success. To blindly accept all that those in charge do at the club is right, then we will be dammed. Like I said earlier, the thought police on here dont often like thoughts that challenge their blind loyalty. I guess there is not alot of democracy on saintsational.....now just wait for the next response...here it comes!!

Just wondering about your thoughts on Raph twirly?

[aussierules0k]

[saint3d]

In the conditions that we saw on GF day, he would have come into his own, and in my opinion, been the difference on the day.

Yes, the conditions were tailor made for strong marking forwards and his stopping power would have made all the difference.

Or perhaps his accurate kicking for goal would have done it.

[Dis Believer]

Quote jb: "Why some self appointed censors try to inflicted their standards on others when it is none of their concern is beyond me."

The old straw man. Basically announce the other poster is doing/saying something they aren't. Then the discussion turns to "I said, you said".

OK, I'll play.

I have not attempted to censor anyone.
I have suggested proof be shown before calling a new poster, who is potentially a long time Saints lover, a troll.

Twirly, a frustrated Saints supporter? Maybe.... now there's a first!

What DOES concern me, is the treatment of new posters.
If I put myself in their shoes I'd think... why would I bother?

So, I'm simply raising a flag to other potential new posters.
Don't let the agro turn you off, some of us are quite reasonable folk who are not scared to discuss anything you wanna throw up on the boards.

To be told that you are a troll, when you are offering up an idea about what is most important about our club has dumbfounded me. yes your right, I am a long long long suffering Saints fan, and firmly believe in good club culture equals success. To blindly accept all that those in charge do at the club is right, then we will be dammed.

Stop making sense, I think that's why you're getting in hot water.

Oh, and you left out a few [enter]'s.... that'll upset posters everytime.... everytime they disagree with your post.

Anyhow, I gotta go buy my Tigers membership. Later.

OK, I respect you greatly AOK so I'll keep it real simple, to the point, and factual.

I tore in because Twirls here was being a condescending flog. Outright remarks like "I've given more money to the Saints than you'll ever see" and referring to another poster as "little man" have no other tone - please feel free to highlight if I am wrong here.

In terms of the actual content - karma? The facts were also wrong - Max wasn't dumped or treted badly - he simply couldn't get back in to the stingiest backline in modern history after his injuries. I don't recall any implication from anyone, includiing Max, that the club treated him badly.
Bally walked out - he cracked the sads and took off after Heddie's bucks.

I don't really see how that adds up to cosmic rays gunning us down??

Cheers mate - keep fighting the good fight........

[degruch]

I have not attempted to censor anyone.
I have suggested proof be shown before calling a new poster, who is potentially a long time Saints lover, a troll.

First time I've ever labelled anyone a troll, after a lot of level headed posting...you don't think there's anything in that?

The content of Twiddle's OP (resembling very much an opposition troll attempting to raise all the same old topics) and his subsequent overly defensive and agro responses to other posters, lead me to think that. Would you like to re-read the entire post and tell me I'm wrong?

I don't care if you logged on last week for the first time, if you want to come on here and tear into everyone, don't expect to make friends. You continue the good fight, I'll continue mine.

[joffaboy]

OK, I'll play.

I have not attempted to censor anyone.
I have suggested proof be shown before calling a new poster, who is potentially a long time Saints lover, a troll.

Its not a game AOK.

I have a right to reply to what I saw as provocative garbage.

You seem to think you have the right to come onto a thread and lecture people on how they should and shouldn't respond.

If you do want to do that, become a moderator.

Why are you self appointed protector of other posters, especially as TB pointed out the OP get very aggressive and arrogant when asked some very pertinent questions? Abusive even.

AOK, you have a right to your views, but you cannot tell me or anyone else how to respond.

Anyway brother, love you long time.

cheers.

GO SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dis Believer]

Anyway brother, love you long time.

400 Baht, take you roun de world big boy.........

[aussierules0k]

[PJ]

Twirlybrain more likely

[3rd generation saint]

So would Max have kicked the goals we missed?, Would Luke Ball had kicked goals on GF day seeing he doesn't kick them from outside the goalsquare as he can't make the distance.
What if Zac's brilliant spoil on Ablett had gone straight to Kosi and not too Scarlett's foot we would have won.
From what I've heard the playing group is pretty pissed with Luke Ball because they feel he walked out on the club and Collingwood with LB still can't beat us or Geelong.
So you can speculate, you can say what if, but nothing is going to change facts.
We are no worse off than we ae're with Luke Ball, Max would not have made the difference last year and there was always the possibility that his hamstring may have given way early in the game, or before the GF and he would not have played anyway.
If Ball is such a highly sought after talent why did he go at pick 30 and not picked up by other clubs who could have used his leadership.
Probably because the whole thing was set up by Collingwood in breach of the draft rules but the AFL turned a blind eye.
He was offered a contract and chose to turn it down.

[Finna]

I apologize in advance for the filth I am about to type. After many years of blindly loving the Saints, I'm about to transform into a troll or worse, a low grade supporter who should go support Richmond!

How do I find myself in this predicament? Simple. My brain created a thought, I had no control over it, it just appeared and now I can't make it disappear. In light of the treatment twirly has received you'd think it wise to stfu, but I aint scared, so I'll continue.

This idea that dropping Max, Ball and imho Maguire had possibly lowered morale had crossed my mind a few weeks ago. I mentioned it to a few Saints fans, most felt there could be some weight to it. So it was with interest I read the op and the replies. As I read the thread, I felt the replies might as well have been aimed directly at me. After all, I also had the evil thought.

There were some good replies and reasons why not to worry about the fabric, I took them on board.

On the other side of the coin...

Whether or not dumping those players (especially Max) has, did or will have any bad effect on team morale is something neither I or anyone else here knows for certain. We can come to a conclusion if we like, or as in my case, keep our mind open. Maybe a couple of players were affected and the majority not. Who the f really knows?

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought. Of course he may be a troll but if so, some one prove it first, then fire away with the "you aint a saints fan" garbage. Until proof is shown twirly is a troll, I will happily believe he's another long time Saints fan who bleeds for the club. Some of the responses he's received are a sad indictment on this forum. Turns me right off the joint.

The civil reply to twirly for those that didn't like his op was simply...
"I don't agree."

I don't agree

Whoa!!! Thanks for that! Yeah I have been amazed at the abuse coming my way, and then amazed even further when accused of being abusive myself. I mean what are you meant to do when you are accused of all sorts of things. To be told that you are a troll, when you are offering up an idea about what is most important about our club has dumbfounded me. yes your right, I am a long long long suffering Saints fan, and firmly believe in good club culture equals success. To blindly accept all that those in charge do at the club is right, then we will be dammed. Like I said earlier, the thought police on here dont often like thoughts that challenge their blind loyalty. I guess there is not alot of democracy on saintsational.....now just wait for the next response...here it comes!!

Just wondering about your thoughts on Raph twirly?

Would you say that Carlton has 'good club culture' Twirly?

It is naive to think that good club culture = success. Does it help? I am sure it does.

Does it = Success........No!

As previous posters have suggested. The timing of your post suggests you were being reactive as a result of the way you were feeling about the way we were playing.

I guess its hard to go back on an OP like that one hey.....Stick to the argument - thats the way.

You really want a flag for this club?

Then stop bloody whinging and whining and get behind our team and SUPPORT like f***.

Thats what we need right now - not the negative crap the people like you seem obsessed with posting.

Sounds to me like this Long, Long Suffering Saints fan likes to suffer and deep down wants to suffer some more.

I know your kind......

Life is crap......isnt it!

[Spinner]

I apologize in advance for the filth I am about to type. After many years of blindly loving the Saints, I'm about to transform into a troll or worse, a low grade supporter who should go support Richmond!

How do I find myself in this predicament? Simple. My brain created a thought, I had no control over it, it just appeared and now I can't make it disappear. In light of the treatment twirly has received you'd think it wise to stfu, but I aint scared, so I'll continue.

This idea that dropping Max, Ball and imho Maguire had possibly lowered morale had crossed my mind a few weeks ago. I mentioned it to a few Saints fans, most felt there could be some weight to it. So it was with interest I read the op and the replies. As I read the thread, I felt the replies might as well have been aimed directly at me. After all, I also had the evil thought.

There were some good replies and reasons why not to worry about the fabric, I took them on board.

On the other side of the coin...

Whether or not dumping those players (especially Max) has, did or will have any bad effect on team morale is something neither I or anyone else here knows for certain. We can come to a conclusion if we like, or as in my case, keep our mind open. Maybe a couple of players were affected and the majority not. Who the f really knows?

Twirly has been shot down for merely throwing up a concept, an idea, a thought. Of course he may be a troll but if so, some one prove it first, then fire away with the "you aint a saints fan" garbage. Until proof is shown twirly is a troll, I will happily believe he's another long time Saints fan who bleeds for the club. Some of the responses he's received are a sad indictment on this forum. Turns me right off the joint.

The civil reply to twirly for those that didn't like his op was simply...
"I don't agree."

I don't agree

Same.

If 'dumping' or what I like to call 'sending a player into the seconds' can effect team moral, then we arnt strong enough.

Team - Not player.

[twirlyhair]

Hi there. Below is a selection of what has been said about me. So that I didn't embarrass anyone, I havent included your names. p.s. some of these are quite humorous I must say!

Grow some balls you pathetic squib.
You look like a complete tool
You sir, are an oxygen thief of the highest order, and the sort of spineless jellyfish that is normally indicative of a filth supporter.
My, you're quite a loser, aren't you
Depends - is the odour something like rancid pig s*** ??? If that's the smell, then yep, I reckon it's a feral supporter.
I'm not on any team that involves this clown
As for 'keyboard heros', how long do you think Twirly would last talking like this to your face? (could be considered a threat?)
Twirlybrain more likely (one of my favourites)

After reading these as they appeared, I reacted and responded. I am so sorry for saying this and hurting your feelings.

Little man
I have put more money into the club than you will ever see.

p.s. if i have missed any, Im sure you will let me know!

Shall we call the headmaster in to help us??