This weeks team

[BigMart]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

[nobhead]

St Kilda
B: James Gwilt, Zac Dawson, Sam Gilbert
HB: Steven Baker, Sam Fisher, Raphael Clarke
C: Clinton Jones, Nick Dal Santo, Farren Ray
HF: Andrew McQualter, Brendon Goddard, Adam Schneider
F: Jack Steven, Justin Koschitzke, Stephen Milne
Foll: Michael Gardiner, Lenny Hayes, Leigh Montagna
I/C: Jason Blake, Jarryn Geary, Jason Gram, Steven King
Emg: David Armitage, Nick Heyne, Rhys Stanley

In: Gram
Out: David Armitage

wtf armo out bizzare!!! especially against carltons midfield .has to be injured cant be dropped on form . seems that certain players in the team dont get dropped no matter how bad they perform.

[ace]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

That's in 2 weeks not 1.

Also Face Facts.
Lyon always said Ball was a required player.
When Ball said he wanted to leave Lyon wanted a fair trade for Ball.
Your facts prove that Collingwood deliberately set out to cheat St Kilda, during trade week.

Your facts prove that Lyon was right to tell Ball to train hard and earn his place in the St Kilda team.
Ball lacked the self confidence to prove he was better than Armitage.
Had Ball done so he would have succeeded.
He did not have the loyalty to the club or his teammates to even try.

Your facts demonstrate that Collingwood got a steal at pick 30.
Your facts demonstrate that pick 23 would have been a steal for Ball.
Your facts demonstrate that clubs with picks before 30 should have taken Ball in the national draft.
The fact they did not do so is proof that Collingwood and Ball's management was tampering with the draft.

The fact is St Kilda supporters should have no respect for Ball's character.
The fact is St Kilda supporters should have respect for Ball's abilities as a footballer only.

Ball has now discovered that most people hate Collingwood.
He should know that he is one of the many reasons.

[saintsRrising]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

Face the facts.......

Ball is also a flog that was content to collude in draft tampering aginst the Saints and walked out on us to supposedly play more ground time.

Note St Mart that this week that Malthouse had his TOG at 66%. Supposedly what he walked out over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like MM is just doing now what the Saints did. Keep his TOG on the low side to get the most out of his body. Surprise, surprise.

[plugger66]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

Face the facts.......

Ball is also a flog that was content to collude in draft tampering aginst the Saints and walked out on us to supposedly play more ground time.

Note St Mart that this week that Malthouse had his TOG at 66%. Supposedly what he walked out over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like MM is just doing now what the Saints did. Keep his TOG on the low side to get the most out of his body. Surprise, surprise.

Yep a flog. Makes sense that who would have hung around and probably played most of the year at Sandy.

[lefty]

Surely armo is injured or just resting.

He's our best in and under player, never ever does he not go in hard.

Love the bloke.

Steven's better perform this week or he might find he'll loose his spot. Didn't do anything last week to impress imo. A lot of people are already giving him credit without actually performing.

[meher baba]

There's been a lot of wishful thinking re Armo on this forum, and even still on this thread.

Fact is, the guy's been in the system for 3.3 seasons now. No emerging player could ask for a better opportunity on a platter than Armo received with Ball's departure. But he has failed to seize the bull by the horns.

He's a great tackler, no denying. And he can pop up in dangerous spots to receive the ball. And he wins some in-and-under ball, but clearly not enough for my liking (or, it would seem, the club's).

In 6 games this season, he's had one really good game (vs Freo), one pretty good game against non-existent opposition (vs the Roos) and four mediocre games in which he tackled well but was in no danger of contracting leather poisoning.

As BigMart observed, if you compare Ball vs Armo this season, Armo isn't on the same planet. Ball is getting better week by week: he clearly suits the Malthouse gameplan better than he suits ours. Armo doesn't seem any more comfortable than Ball was, and he's also less talented.

Steven looked up to it last week, and deserves to have a go in Armo's role. His extra pace may help him to get to the ball more often.

Because our depth is shallow, Armo will get more chances, but he is at serious risk of falling behind Geary and Steven on the pecking order and then to have A Smith breathing down his neck. He needs to find a way to deliver the type of game he played against Freo every week.

[Spinner]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

Im pretty sure we wanted more for Ball.

If we traded him for just pick 30 - the only change in argument would be how we still got f***ed over in that by trading him to relatively nothing.

[vacuous space]

Because our depth is shallow...

It is? Compared to what? The Bulldogs had Brennan Stack in the other night. The Cats are playing Simon Hogan right now. Sydney have a couple of teenagers running around. Armo's a good player, and I would take his dropping as a sign that we have pretty good depth beyond our lengthy list of stars. There are several guys at Sandy that I'm confident could, at the very least, get a game without embarrassing themselves.

IMO, Armo's biggest problem is he's basically Luke Ball - and he's helping to demonstrate just how much we didn't need Luke Ball. He needs to work on being better outside a contest. I don't believe Geary is a better player, but he offers more right now. Armo's a centre square player and not much else. With guys like Hayes, Dal, Joey, BJ, Jones and Gram, it seems unlikely that Armo's going to make it as a centre square player alone. Geary can play just about anywhere. Steven seems to be more Geary than Armo. Unless Armo can do the things that those guys do, he's going to follow Ball's path.

[Spinner]

There's been a lot of wishful thinking re Armo on this forum, and even still on this thread.

Fact is, the guy's been in the system for 3.3 seasons now. No emerging player could ask for a better opportunity on a platter than Armo received with Ball's departure. But he has failed to seize the bull by the horns.

He's a great tackler, no denying. And he can pop up in dangerous spots to receive the ball. And he wins some in-and-under ball, but clearly not enough for my liking (or, it would seem, the club's).

In 6 games this season, he's had one really good game (vs Freo), one pretty good game against non-existent opposition (vs the Roos) and four mediocre games in which he tackled well but was in no danger of contracting leather poisoning.

As BigMart observed, if you compare Ball vs Armo this season, Armo isn't on the same planet. Ball is getting better week by week: he clearly suits the Malthouse gameplan better than he suits ours. Armo doesn't seem any more comfortable than Ball was, and he's also less talented.

Steven looked up to it last week, and deserves to have a go in Armo's role. His extra pace may help him to get to the ball more often.

Because our depth is shallow, Armo will get more chances, but he is at serious risk of falling behind Geary and Steven on the pecking order and then to have A Smith breathing down his neck. He needs to find a way to deliver the type of game he played against Freo every week.

Ball starts in the center square each time he is on the field for the pies....

Armo is our bottom ranked midfielder at the moments.

You cant compare opportunities.

And the fact that Armitage has only played 20 odd games of football....compared to 140 odd for Ball.

The comparison is a long term one.

[Spinner]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

Face the facts.......

Ball is also a flog that was content to collude in draft tampering aginst the Saints and walked out on us to supposedly play more ground time.

Note St Mart that this week that Malthouse had his TOG at 66%. Supposedly what he walked out over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Looks like MM is just doing now what the Saints did. Keep his TOG on the low side to get the most out of his body. Surprise, surprise.

Yep a flog. Makes sense that who would have hung around and probably played most of the year at Sandy.

You really think he'd play at Sandi for majority of the year p66?

Based on form, or because of Lyon? ie playing at Sandi deservingly or not?

[maverick]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

BS...again
Easily take Armo's 2 goals out of 7 than Ball's 3 out of 24.
End of story.
He has made the Pies best players twice in 7 rounds, not too good for a VG mid IMHO.

[bigcarl]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle too .... he is just a better player.

he's a better player now because of his experience. give steven or armitage 50 games and then we'll be able to make more of a judgement on it.

ball didn't earn his reputed money the last couple of seasons (imo) and him going will have freed us up in the salary cap. that's one positive.

[SaintTom]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

That's in 2 weeks not 1.

Also Face Facts.
Lyon always said Ball was a required player.
When Ball said he wanted to leave Lyon wanted a fair trade for Ball.
Your facts prove that Collingwood deliberately set out to cheat St Kilda, during trade week.

Your facts prove that Lyon was right to tell Ball to train hard and earn his place in the St Kilda team.
Ball lacked the self confidence to prove he was better than Armitage.
Had Ball done so he would have succeeded.
He did not have the loyalty to the club or his teammates to even try.

Your facts demonstrate that Collingwood got a steal at pick 30.
Your facts demonstrate that pick 23 would have been a steal for Ball.
Your facts demonstrate that clubs with picks before 30 should have taken Ball in the national draft.
The fact they did not do so is proof that Collingwood and Ball's management was tampering with the draft.

The fact is St Kilda supporters should have no respect for Ball's character.
The fact is St Kilda supporters should have respect for Ball's abilities as a footballer only.

Ball has now discovered that most people hate Collingwood.
He should know that he is one of the many reasons.

I do actually have respect for Ball's character, as well as skill. I hate the fact he left the Saints, but if it was him leaving the Pies to come to the Saints I would have welcomed him with open arms. Don't like what he did, but still like the bloke. I know most here vehemently disagree with that though.

[BigMart]

After 3.3 seasons, Ball was an All Australian and B&F and was in the leadership group....4th season he was Captain.

Ball is a FLOG....err, no, A.Lovett is a FLOG as I said during Pre-Season before he was charged with rape, and locked up by the cops for being asleep in a public place drunk at 6AM during pre-season....

Ball is highly respected in AFL circles and also by most at StK....is an intelligent and considered human

as is

Xavier Clarke, Matt Maguire....three quality blokes...

back to the argument - Ball's last two games, his first half in the GF, his R18 game...demonstrate that he is still highly effective and during those games was in the best few on the ground.

[bobmurray]

Anyway...Ball's gone so we have to work with what we've got.....

Have we got any decent players in the making or is the list full of GOP's

[Spinner]

After 3.3 seasons, Ball was an All Australian and B&F and was in the leadership group....4th season he was Captain.

Ball is a FLOG....err, no, A.Lovett is a FLOG as I said during Pre-Season before he was charged with rape, and locked up by the cops for being asleep in a public place drunk at 6AM during pre-season....

Ball is highly respected in AFL circles and also by most at StK....is an intelligent and considered human

as is

Xavier Clarke, Matt Maguire....three quality blokes...

back to the argument - Ball's last two games, his first half in the GF, his R18 game...demonstrate that he is still highly effective and during those games was in the best few on the ground.

Dont see the point of this post...but a few considerations.

*Ball was in a team, along with others that wasnt as competitive as it is right now.

*Everyone knew Andrew Lovett was a flog, only you seem to carry on like you had inside information regarding that. He could also play footy...Did you know that?

*X and Goose are quality blokes. Point? Could I get a game for that saints? I regard myself pretty highly in the 'good bloke' stakes.

[maverick]

After 3.3 seasons, Ball was an All Australian and B&F and was in the leadership group....4th season he was Captain.

Ball is a FLOG....err, no, A.Lovett is a FLOG as I said during Pre-Season before he was charged with rape, and locked up by the cops for being asleep in a public place drunk at 6AM during pre-season....

Ball is highly respected in AFL circles and also by most at StK....is an intelligent and considered human

as is

Xavier Clarke, Matt Maguire....three quality blokes...

back to the argument - Ball's last two games, his first half in the GF, his R18 game...demonstrate that he is still highly effective and during those games was in the best few on the ground.

So he should have been all that you say, he was a no.2 pick in the best ever draft.

I am glad he is respected in AFL circles, I would rather he play good footy personally.

At the end of the day he should be as good as Joel Selwood, the fact he is nowhere near him, puts all the garbage you sprout about being AA, skipper and leadership group so early in his career to shame.

He is average now, all he will ever be, just get used to it. He wasn't even in the best for the Pies yesterday.

Why isn't he respected by all at St Kilda? Why wasn't there a fallout when he left? Don't think he was quite as respected as you think.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

There is NO more Ball vs Armo because we know who the winner is.....and it doesn't suit some people...now it's Steven vs Armo (Ball)....Luke will win that battle to....he is just a better player

47 Pos
15 Clearances
17 Tackles
3 Goals

Cannot see either of our boys doing that in 2010...

Face the facts....you can't bag anymore because he has again proven he cab be a VG AFL mid..niether the other boys have proven that..Ball has a couple of weaknesses, and real strengths (Tackle/Clearance) not bad for Pick #30.....what was our compensation again???...

While I'll certainly agree that Ball's ahead of Armo head to head, I don't think one can dismiss "Ball v Armo" on the basis of Armo being dropped.

I suspect on his early form for the pies, if we translated across to St Kilda, we would have dropped Ball weeks ago - and Armo may only have got the extended shot because he doesn't have the depth of experience.

Ball and Armo bring the same assets - and problems - to the table. Both are mroe than willing to put their head down and hunt the ball (and Luke Ball is better at it). Both are mad tacklers. However, neither does a good job of getting to the 2nd and 3rd contest, and neither links up well on outside play.

My thought is it's probably a good time to drop Armo. Let him know he's got to work on his running, running, and more running.

Ball's game fits at Collingwood, and when played to his strengths, he's still a very good footballer. It's all in front of Armo. Anyone who was genuinely expecting Armo to be an improvement at this stage was an optimist... but remember we're talking about a 25 game player at this stage, and a 25 game player who's playing the game the hard way.

He just needs the will to impose himself on games, and he can still be a better Saint than Ball had been for quite some time.

[rodgerfox]

We miss Luke Ball on-field.

Very good footballer.

[spert]

I think Armo at this stage, is a version of Luke Ball with better foot disposal and goal sense. I feel RL is probably experimenting with Armo, Eddy, Geary and Steven to see who can best carry out his instructions in that in-and-under the packs role.

[Buckets]

This thread about tonight's line-up or all about Luke Ball? Confused!

[saintsRrising]

I think Armo at this stage, is a version of Luke Ball with better foot disposal and goal sense. I feel RL is probably experimenting with Armo, Eddy, Geary and Steven to see who can best carry out his instructions in that in-and-under the packs role.

Indeed. They plus Peake are all competing for one, maybe two spots in the 22. If Ball had stayed he would have been in that group. No more no less.

Gram is clearly a better player than any in that group...plus Ball, and would be selected over all.

Gram is a great IN and a player we have sorely missed in recent weeks.

[degruch]

This thread about tonight's line-up or all about Luke Ball? Confused!

Agree, I think...I'm not sure why I looked at a thread about this week's team expecting to see info on this week's team.

[Con Gorozidis]

Agree
im looking everywhere. What is tonights team FFS!
Can comeone please tell me tonights 22 as selected?