How many Indigenous players do we really have?

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I'm sure you'd be willing to pay compensation out of your taxes!

How far back will you go? Personally I'd love to get money for the injustices done to my ancestors. It will never happen.

PS K.Rudd's famous "apology" was carefully crafted by lawyers to make sure indigenous people couldn't use it as a basis for compensation claims.

Thanks for the support, joffaboy. Personally I didn't support Obama (it's irrelevant because we don't get a vote in the US Elections) but I think some of the people who supported him were deluded, thinking he would turn US foreign policy around 180 degrees. I think he's doing an ok job but the idealistic rhetoric of his campaign has crashed straight into the harsh realities of the world. It was inevitable.

[GrumpyOne]

I'm sure you'd be willing to pay compensation out of your taxes!

How far back will you go? Personally I'd love to get money for the injustices done to my ancestors. It will never happen.

Yes I would be willing to pay compensation out of my taxes. Least I could do for the privilege of living in the most wonderful country in the world.

Who stole your ancestors' land?

[I Love Peter Kiel]

If you had Scottish ancestry for example you'd know something about the "clearances" of the Highlands which led to mass emigration from Scotland.
If you had Irish ancestry you'd know that the locals were turned into tenant farmers (on their ancestors' land) by English landlords.
As I said, how far back are you prepared to go? There's little you can do once the people concerned are all dead.

Presumably all of the people on this site had ancestors who immigrated to Australia in some way or other. Immigration, and the growth of the "European" population all added to the displacement of indigenous people from their tribal lands.
I doubt that you deeply regret that your ancestors came to this country.

[GrumpyOne]

If you had Scottish ancestry for example you'd know something about the "clearances" of the Highlands which led to mass emigration from Scotland.
If you had Irish ancestry you'd know that the locals were turned into tenant farmers (on their ancestors' land) by English landlords.
As I said, how far back are you prepared to go? There's little you can do once the people concerned are all dead.

Presumably all of the people on this site had ancestors who immigrated to Australia in some way or other. Immigration, and the growth of the "European" population all added to the displacement of indigenous people from their tribal lands.
I doubt that you deeply regret that your ancestors came to this country.

I wasn't aware of the Scottish situation.

I have long been an advocate of the English getting out of Ireland.

I do not regret coming to Australia, becoming Australian and raising Australian children who are raising my Australian Grandchildren.

The traditional owners of this land have not been compensated for the theft of their country by the English, with their incorrect determination of "Terra Nullus". I deeply regret the injustice committed at that time, and will to my dying day seek some way to repair that injustice.

This is a really deep discussion for the footy forum.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

It's not as simple as the English getting out of Ireland.....the conflict in Northern Ireland was between Protestants (whose ancestors were from Scotland) and Catholics. The British troops were there to keep the peace. I s'pose it depends on your point of view. Many Catholic Irish also migrated to Scotland in the past to work on the docks at Glasgow for example . That is one of the reasons for the fierce hatred between Celtic and Glasgow Rangers.

However Northern Ireland has largely been at peace for over 10 years. This is a fantastic achievement! Sworn enemies like Paisley and McGuiness have been able to sit down and have a laugh together. This really gives hope to the world.

If you look back far enough in history you'd probably find that the ancestors of the Irish and Scots themselves r&ped, enslaved, and murdered people.


I think what you mean is "terra nullius" which would mean "land of no one".

The Indians (Native Americans) had a sad history. The indigenous people in Canada have had a govt apology and a lot of help, but they suffer many of the problems afflicting our own indigenous people.
Kevin Rudd's apology didn't improve the living conditions of one Aboriginal person but it did make the whites feel better.

What I'm saying is history is not simple. Most people ancestors pushed someone else out of their own territory.

[GrumpyOne]

It's not as simple as the English getting out of Ireland.....the conflict in Northern Ireland was between Protestants (whose ancestors were from Scotland) and Catholics. The British troops were there to keep the peace. I s'pose it depends on your point of view. Many Catholic Irish also migrated to Scotland in the past to work on the docks at Glasgow for example . That is one of the reasons for the fierce hatred between Celtic and Glasgow Rangers.

However Northern Ireland has largely been at peace for over 10 years. This is a fantastic achievement! Sworn enemies like Paisley and McGuiness have been able to sit down and have a laugh together. This really gives hope to the world.

If you look back far enough in history you'd probably find that the ancestors of the Irish and Scots themselves r&ped, enslaved, and murdered people.


I think what you mean is "terra nullius" which would mean "land of no one".

The Indians (Native Americans) had a sad history. The indigenous people in Canada have had a govt apology and a lot of help, but they suffer many of the problems afflicting our own indigenous people.
Kevin Rudd's apology didn't improve the living conditions of one Aboriginal person but it did make the whites feel better.

What I'm saying is history is not simple. Most people ancestors pushed someone else out of their own territory.

Cannot disagree with you over Ireland. It is good that a solution was worked out between two warring parties, just regrettable that it took a very long civil war to make it possible.

The Maoris in NZ got a much better deal out of the white invaders by their warrior nature. No question of Terra Nullius there. If Australia's traditional owners had been less peace-loving in nature, the outcome may have been different.

Rudd's apology was a huge step forward, but we have remained frozen on that step ever since.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

I think the original post here was about our indigenous players, and celebrating them.

We all love our Saints, that's why we're on this forum. I've always loved the indigenous players, from Phil Narkle onward!
I really liked Gilbert McAdam and my favourite Saint of all time is probably Nicky Winmar.
I loved "X-Man" and I'll stick up for Raph Clarke every time. He's made one or two mistakes, but he's a player with a future and plenty of skill.
I was sad that Ross "Tunga" was delisted and didn't play a senior game.

Leaving aside history and the harsh realities of the world outside football aside for the moment, what I've said from day one WRT "A.L." is that I think that for many indigenous players the dangers facing non-indigenous players (sudden fame/attention from women, sudden huge cash flow, media spotlight, exposure to alcohol/drugs) are magnified more than tenfold due to the circumstances of their upbringing and growing up black in Australia.


The AFL has gone ahead in leaps and bounds WRT reconciliation etc compared to say 30/40 yrs ago.
I was there at Victoria Park in '93. At the time I was just happy to win.
But when I saw "that picture" of Winmar ...that iconic picture of him lifting his jumper to proudly show his black skin to racist elements of the Collingwood crowd, I thought it was great. He started it, and Michael L*ng, Sheedy and others followed.
On the positive side, we've really come a long way....every club now has indigenous players and the public loves the "magic" they bring to our native game. What about the Essendon Richmond "Dreamtime at the G" game every year? that would never have happened even 20 yrs ago.

I think most people post on this site because they care so much about the Saints. I was there at Etihad on that sad afternoon of Sunday Sept 27th 2009 and I think you could really sum uo the feeling there from Michael Roberts and the crowd: love.
We were all ready to welcome "A.L" with open arms into the select group of Saints players. That's why it's so sad if he has done wrong and we'll never get to see him in the Red,White and Black.

[joffaboy]

The Maoris in NZ got a much better deal out of the white invaders by their warrior nature. No question of Terra Nullius there. If Australia's traditional owners had been less peace-loving in nature, the outcome may have been different.

Maoris weren't defeated by the Brits who signed the treaty of Waitangi.

Rudd's apology was a huge step forward, but we have remained frozen on that step ever since.

It was never meant to slove the ongoing issues of the myriad problems associated with our indigeneous people.

It was however necessary.

[I Love Peter Kiel]

What we call the "Maori wars" happened AFTER the Treaty of Waitangi.

Also, the English version differs from the Maori version.
It is thought that the Maoris first arrived in New Zealand only a few hundred years before the first European explorers. What happened to the original inhabitants?
Some Maori tribes had slaves. Like I said, history is complicated. It isn't black and white.

[GrumpyOne]

Like I said, history is complicated. It isn't black and white.

Pun intended?

[I Love Peter Kiel]

Yeah I was going to say "no pun intended" but the political correctness police would've jumped all over that.