Shane Crawford on the importance of resting players

[evertonfc]

ross has actually spoken about putting in a young 'un for a final........mentions brereton a bit in that regard........

Hmmm...

vs

Probably not...but you never know

[Milton66]

ross has actually spoken about putting in a young 'un for a final........mentions brereton a bit in that regard........

Hmmm...

Is there enough time for Lynch to grow a mullet and die it blonde?

[saintsRrising]

To say that we don't need rest is a little naive.

Any side getting rest into their players has a distinct advantage.

.

Can you please outline the precise reasons for this?

I am naive on this ...and you are obviously knowledgeable....so please illustrate exactly what the advantages are?

Can you also please explain how "rest" now can be stored for use in the finals?


My obviously naive view is that modern training and conditioning means that breaks of longer than 7 days of more have little advantage unless there is bruising, corkies or other injuries to overcome....but then that becomes injury recovery and not resting.




And back on momentum

IMO what really sets the Saints apart this year is willingness to work (workrate) and team-work (witha renewed focus on what team values are importnant and need to be achieved). There are numerous other factors...but IMO these are the key.

This areas are in the mind and can easily be lost.

While the Hawks have had injuries...what really has hurt them is that they lost their mojo.


So IMO form should not be flirted with.....sure we can be cautious as we have been with player injuries (ie Gardi and Max)...but momentum lost is not easily regained.


The coach and all the players have said that this year that they have concentrated on the process....and so now is not the time to flirt with this.

[evertonfc]

Is there enough time for Lynch to grow a mullet and die it blonde?

And comes out and kicks five on debut?

[Milton66]

Is there enough time for Lynch to grow a mullet and die it blonde?

And comes out and kicks five on debut?

SOLD!

[Beej]

To say that we don't need rest is a little naive.

Any side getting rest into their players has a distinct advantage.

.

Can you please outline the precise reasons for this?

I am naive on this ...and you are obviously knowledgeable....so please illustrate exactly what the advantages are?

Can you also please explain how "rest" now can be stored for use in the finals?


My obviously naive view is that modern training and conditioning means that breaks of longer than 7 days of more have little advantage unless there is bruising, corkies or other injuries to overcome....but then that becomes injury recovery and not resting.




And back on momentum

IMO what really sets the Saints apart this year is willingness to work (workrate) and team-work (witha renewed focus on what team values are importnant and need to be achieved). There are numerous other factors...but IMO these are the key.

This areas are in the mind and can easily be lost.

While the Hawks have had injuries...what really has hurt them is that they lost their mojo.


So IMO form should not be flirted with.....sure we can be cautious as we have been with player injuries (ie Gardi and Max)...but momentum lost is not easily regained.


The coach and all the players have said that this year that they have concentrated on the process....and so now is not the time to flirt with this.

Firstly, give me a clear example of a player missing one game of football due to rest and coming back totally out of touch? When a footballer is in form, it means he's not only playing exceptional football on game day, but he's also in form on the training track. There's a lot of truth in the old adage, "you play the way you train". That's where form and confidence is essentially built - in training. Game day is the opportunity to showcase it to the world.

Taking time off because of injury is what affects form, as the player is unable to train. Missing a game does not have the same effect, provided the player is still capable of participating in a skills session to maintain his touch.

Secondly, AFL is probably the most physically grueling sport in the world. Surely you understand the concept of fatigue?

Have a look at these facts:

Many footballers over the past few years have strongly opposed an extension to the AFL season.

Clubs are now calling for an extended interchange bench.

We can't get through a week of build-up without talk of 5, 6, 7 day breaks. This is crucial today.

Is it not obvious how fatigue plays a major part in our game?

[saintsRrising]

Firstly, give me a clear example of a player missing one game of football due to rest and coming back totally out of touch?

I will give you a whole team..StKilda....and they only missed a training session to see a movie instead.

Momentum is easily lost.

[saintsRrising]

Surely you understand the concept of fatigue?

I do.

But what medical reason is there that demonstrates that players need more than 7 days to recover from fatigue?

Please point me in the direction of the information that indicates this..

[saintsRrising]

Have a look at these facts:

Many footballers over the past few years have strongly opposed an extension to the AFL season.

That is because:

1/ There is no extra money for players to play longer

2/ Players want their time off to enjoy themselves....times when they can do things they want. In season football rules what they do 24/7

[saintsRrising]

We can't get through a week of build-up without talk of 5, 6, 7 day breaks. This is crucial today.

Is it not obvious how fatigue plays a major part in our game?[/b]

err..you are now reinforcing my point.

5 day breaks where your opponent has a longer break is a disadvantage.

6 day break.....there is a lot of discussion on this and many now believe that 6 days is adequate even if your opponent has had 7.

Where 6 days can still be important is when one has played in WA with the long flight interrupting your recovery.

More than 7 is a waste...

[saintsRrising]

Is it not obvious how fatigue plays a major part in our game?[/b]

errr ..is this not an obvious statement???? Our game revolves around endurance..and so managing fatigue is very important. Who has said it is not? Not I.


But 2, 4 or 8 interchange players have naught to do with demonstrating any need for a break of greater than 7 days.

[degruch]

Firstly, give me a clear example of a player missing one game of football due to rest and coming back totally out of touch?

I'm more concerned about the reverse scenario, given the way the team is operating this year. What happens when a player is introduced to the team who lacks game time?

St Kilda is functioning exceptionally as a team this year, the zones are drilled, everyone knows their place and everyone trusts the other to perform their duty as trained. As you pointed out, it is also drilled into these guys during the week at training, but it's not the same as the heat of the game. Introducing a possible 'weak link' or two has the possibility to adversely effect the team's overall performance, sapping momentum leading up to a finals comp.

Losing momentum can put you on the back foot when you least need it. I agree with SR that it is very important, it can also be very fragile.

Yes, anyone can see that fatigue is an issue, but it can also be managed during a game. 'Resting' is the fashionable media term for the month, it has no proven positive or negative effects, and as no club is really admitting to currently resting players, it remains only an opinion.

[Beej]

Firstly, give me a clear example of a player missing one game of football due to rest and coming back totally out of touch?

I will give you a whole team..StKilda....and they only missed a training session to see a movie instead.

Momentum is easily lost.

You're not one who suggests we lost a flag solely because our supporters ran onto the ground at AAMI are you?

That's pure fantasy.

Surely you understand the concept of fatigue?

I do.

But what medical reason is there that demonstrates that players need more than 7 days to recover from fatigue?

Please point me in the direction of the information that indicates this..

Bear with me here, SrR.

The average AFL player covers around 12-15 kilometres a game. That's almost a half-marathon of sprinting, jumping, being tackled, bumped, thrown to ground... generally just getting absolutely battered from week to week.

Are we in agreeance that a game of AFL footy takes more of a toll on the body than a marathon? No doubt.

Olympic marathon runners do 2 or 3 (maximum) marathons a year, with an interval of 4 months between each marathon to recover from stress and fatigue.

The amount of stress and fatigue AFL players would have to endure throughout a season is unimaginable.

To suggest that seven days is all it would take to fully recover from an AFL game is laughable. Truth is these footballers don't actually begin to fully recover from an AFL game until the season is over.

We can't get through a week of build-up without talk of 5, 6, 7 day breaks. This is crucial today.

Is it not obvious how fatigue plays a major part in our game?[/b]

err..you are now reinforcing my point.

5 day breaks where your opponent has a longer break is a disadvantage.

You've actually reinforced the point of this thread.

The whole point is that a side with more rest has a distinct advantage.

Have a look at these facts:

Many footballers over the past few years have strongly opposed an extension to the AFL season.

That is because:

1/ There is no extra money for players to play longer

2/ Players want their time off to enjoy themselves....times when they can do things they want. In season football rules what they do 24/7

I've never heard a player or coach cite money as a reason for opposing a longer season.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7 ... n29524598/

AFL: Season is too long: Schwab

Hawthorn coach PETER SCHWAB says the AFL season is too long and is taking far too great a toll on players.

SCHWAB also claims it's time for more detailed research on player injuries as well as looking at increasing the size of club ..

[Saintschampions08]

If your work asked you too work longer, what would your response be?

Players adapt, 22 games in a season (1 a week) isn't too much...just look at other sports.

Sure, you can say AFL is the most gruelling sport in the world, but in terms of pure fitness, have a look at most NBA players (72 games a year, then best of 5 and best of 7 finals games)...they play every couple of days, and run non-stop for about 70 minutes a game....

[saintsRrising]

Are we in agreeance that a game of AFL footy takes more of a toll on the body than a marathon? No doubt.

No we are not.

No doubt?

I actually completely disagree.

AFL footballers monitor their bodies during a game under the close watch of Conditioning Coaches.

They push themselves ...but not too far. Too much lactic acid build up etc and they are off.

Now the Marathons I have seen...did not have interchanges..and the runners involved have to push themselves through the "wall".

Marathon runners actually do great harm to their bodies....and their muscles at the end are converted to energy to fuel their bodies.
This does not occur in AFL footballers.

In extreme cases runners have actually "melted-down".

This means that Marathon Runners, unlike AFL footballers, require much greater recovery times than 7 days.


However as AFL is an impact game it can mean that they need longer recovery times than say soccer Players who can often play repeated games ata lot less than a 7 day spacing.

[saintsRrising]

You've actually reinforced the point of this thread.

The whole point is that a side with more rest has a distinct advantage.

No I have not at all.

What I have stated is that "rest" beyond 7 days is waste unless there is an injury to be recovered from.

Whereas ''resting" players by having them miss games runs the great risk of them losing momentum.

[Saintschampions08]

Are we in agreeance that a game of AFL footy takes more of a toll on the body than a marathon? No doubt.

No we are not.

No doubt?

I actually completely disagree.

AFL footballers monitor their bodies during a game under the close watch of Conditioning Coaches.

They push themselves ...but not too far. Too much lactic acid build up etc and they are off.

Now the Marathons I have seen...did not have interchanges..and the runners involved have to push themselves the "wall".

Marathon runners actually do great harm to their bodies....and their muscles at the end are converted to energy to fuel their bodies.
This does not occur the AFL footballers.

In extreme cases runners have actually "melted-down".

This means that Marathon Runners, unlike AFL footballers, require much greater recovery times than 7 days.


However as AFL is an impact game it can mean that they need longer recovery times than say soccer Players who can often play repeated games ata lot less than a 7 day spacing.

Exaclty.

Comparing a marathon to AFL is stupid.

Every AFL player gets multiple rests, every time a goal is kicked, every time he ball goes out of bounds...when he is interchanged...Marathon runners, .. don't.

Sure, AFL is more strenuous, but thats why players get a rest during the game.

[saintsRrising]

Firstly, give me a clear example of a player missing one game of football due to rest and coming back totally out of touch?

I will give you a whole team..StKilda....and they only missed a training session to see a movie instead.

Momentum is easily lost.

You're not one who suggests we lost a flag solely because our supporters ran onto the ground at AAMI are you?

That's pure fantasy.

.

As you have written it no.

The word "solely" is very important in that sentence.

However yes I do believe that the idiots that ran onto the ground cost us momentum when the team was on top and was grinding PA into the turf.
Mark Williams is on record as stating that it was very useful for him to talk with the players and steady them.

So no it was not the sole reason.....but it certainly was a reason.

[saintsRrising]

I've never heard a player or coach cite money as a reason for opposing a longer season.

If you think that money is not important to players then I think you are dreaming.

Very few players want to retire now..as the money is too good.

Take Cricket Players...they complained bitterly for years about their being too much cricket etc etc.

But as soon as IPL offered large sums of dosh to play in their off-season 99% of them could not sign up quick enough (not that I blame them).

[saintsRrising]

Many players are creatures of habit...some to almost obsessive compulsive extents.

BJ's weekly ritual is extensive and unique...including playing electronic games with his mates.

Departing from this routine can be very disruptive to some players.....and could have them leave the "zone"....or the St Kilda "bubble".

[Beej]

Marathon runnners aren't bumped, they're not thrown to ground, they never have to sprint, they don't have to leap or change directions, they don't finish marathons with corks and bruises, they rarely get injured.

An AFL player would be able to better cope with the physical demands of a marathon than a marathon runner in a game of AFL.

I don't think you can question that. (even though I know SrR will )

The heavy rotating of the interchange in today's game allows a footballer to give it everything until he's got nothing left to give. He comes off completely spent, chucks up some gatorade, and goes out there to do it all again.

I'm yet to see a marathon runner throw up as he's crossing the finish line.

Now the Marathons I have seen...did not have interchanges..and the runners involved have to push themselves through the "wall".

AFL footballers do not have to push through the wall? That would be the exact definition of "gut-running", I would've thought. No?

Footballers are pushing themselves through walls while getting absolutely belted by the opposition.

IMO a marathon would be a walk in the park for an AFL footballer. They won't be breaking records, but they'd be able to run 42 kilometres in under 4 hours without stopping. Comfortably.

Zac Dawson would shirt-front a marathon runner all the way back to Kenya!

[Beej]

I've never heard a player or coach cite money as a reason for opposing a longer season.

If you think that money is not important to players then I think you are dreaming.

Very few players want to retire now..as the money is too good.

Take Cricket Players...they complained bitterly for years about their being too much cricket etc etc.

But as soon as IPL offered large sums of dosh to play in their off-season 99% of them could not sign up quick enough (not that I blame them).

I'm not saying money is not important.

Every player or coach I've heard who has opposed the longer season has said so because of the physical toll it takes on the body.

That comment by Schwab for instance, that's all I've ever heard. Never ever about money.

I think you're severely underrating how taxing the game is.

[saintsRrising]

I'm yet to see a marathon runner throw up as he's crossing the finish line.

The "original" marathon runner died....on arrival.


Other runners have "melted-down" their bodies.

Others have pushed to hard and done permanent damage or have even died .

[Beej]

I'm yet to see a marathon runner throw up as he's crossing the finish line.

The "original" marathon runner died....on arrival.


Other runners have "melted-down" their bodies.

Others have pushed to hard and done permanent damage or have even died .

From 1990 to 1999, 14 people died playing Australian Rules football, mostly from brain injury following collisions between players

[saintsRrising]

Marathon runnners aren't bumped, they're not thrown to ground, they never have to sprint, they don't have to leap or change directions, they don't finish marathons with corks and bruises, they rarely get injured.

Aa!

err...you are the one that brought up Marathon Running as an arguement to back up the benefits of "rest".

My point all along is that the two sports are entirely different and so therefore it is meaningless to try and use either sport for guidance on receovery periods between "events".


Once again if a player has an impact injury such as a corkie (ie Gardi last week) then he may need to miss a week or two for injury recovery...and not to rest.

I have no problem with injured players not playing.

But I am against players who are fit enough to play being "rested" :

* as IMO it may cause them to mentally downshift.
* that there are no significant benefits to be gained from "resting".