The miserable 'supporter'

[Teflon]

i disagree with 90% of whats been said.

I am a culprit of this negativity, and its got nothing to do with my life outside footy, my job, or my self esteem. What a joke

I love the saints as much as anyone, but i hate losing, and even more than that, i hate mediocre performances. I understand the need to remain positive when competing, but if we are satisfied with always 'doing well' that's not enough for me. Fact is, we SHOULD have won a flag by now. We haven't and its clear that this complacent attitude is why.

We have missed opportunities in the past, and when we let ourselves down, i see it all happening over and over again. When we are playing well, i cheer more than anyone. When someone puts their head over the ball under a pack, i'm the first to commend the effort. But when someone continues to make the same mistake or just demonstrates a complete lack of effort, then i'm not going to sit back and remain positive about it.

There's no bad language, or anything offensive to others around me. And i never ever boo my own team. I purely call it how it is. If you aren't willing to listen to the reality of a situation, then watch the game at home and congratulate anyone in a saints jumper, even if their effort doesn't deserve it.

Im in this boat.

I dont boo, swear or hiss but will vent at mediocre effort and as a paid up member why shouldnt we?

I prefer to call it 'realism' - Im not into glasses full or empty and actually think most of the time most of us fall somewhere in between (In saying that I feel like that "love god" guy off the tragic "love song dedications"....as I clumsily humm "torn between two lovers....feeling like a fool...")

Good post steph btw.

[PJ]

All supporters are miserable when they're losing. To be miserable when you're winning takes some special kind of f##ked up head space.

Warning take 5 large steps away from this person then call the bomb squad.

If pain persists call a neuro surgeon or the wiggles

If they're still unhappy buy them a Richmond membership - the results should be instantaneous.

[markp]

There's frustration and the resigned sighs at repeated mistakes, and the head in hands 'jesus jimmy, or goose, or raph, or whoever..", the end of the tether exclamation stuff that, as supporters, drives us mad.

This is far different from going the tonk, bagging out a player vocally in a way that an opposition supporter would one of our own. I cant abide it and get really angry and/or disheartened when i'm around it. I think its pretty poor and unsupportive form. I changed my seat to move away from a guy who exactly like this (I still hear him) but was racist to boot, and the sh1t he'd say when Raph (in his 1st season) fumbled or even gallantly put in for an impossible possession was just off.
I clashed with an older woman (who I think has moved away from me) during a dogs game which was close, and she was bagging goose saying "you've lost the the game for us McGuire you idiot" when we still in front (and went on to win) and tld her to "shut the farck up, you're losing the game for us".

Many of us have players we dont rate, or reckon are consistenly slack or whatever. It could be like an "uggghh" heart in the mouth stuff when the ball is kicked in his direction, but the out and out "dont kick it to him","get off" sort of stuff I just dont get.

I've often wondered whether its always been a part of StKilda, this player bagging. I know my grandfather hated and would bag out Gary Colling and of course I'd imagine Billy Barrot was never popular with the fans

I think you've summed it up well... we all vent our frustrations, we're St Kilda fans ffs, you'd have to be a monk not too!

But I guess you can draw a line between 'positive' criticism, ie "put your head over the ball" "don't go to ground", even "why'd you do that?!"... and negative abuse "you are crap!"... "get off!"

Yes, at times it's a fine line, but surely we should try and stay out of the negative vortex as much as possible, lest we end up like one of those supporters who is totally incapable of supporting, and lets fly all game long with invective.

Someone touched on it before, maybe when we start to lose some people switch over because in some weird head-space it helps separate them from the losing, and it's kinda 'fun' to vent.... I think moderation is the key here though.

All I'm really saying is that on game day the most helpful thing we can do is support... Let's hope this season we have more reason to shout "Yes!" than "Noooo!"....

[rodgerfox]

I can categorically say, that in the 28 years I've been following the footy, I've never once, ever abused a Saints player or official.

I don't know why you would. It doesn't make sense.


Watching the footy, and critiquing performance is pretty the essence of the game for me (once you stop playing of course).

But getting angry at your club?

Odd.

[Hurricane]

We could win a premership by 100 points and there will be some people (not supporters that word doesnt suit them) that have a sook and say we should have won by 150.

They should sit home and watch the game on TV and spare the rest of us their whinge session

BANG BANG

[ctqs]

Great thread. For me it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic, but realistic. By all means, people are entitled to let it be known that they're not happy with a sub-standard performance. But it has to be done in the context of an overall trend.
I don't know how anyone can be too up or down over a game in round one. Yeah, it's good to win, and I was really pleased with the team's effort. But either way, it's wasn't going to make or break our season. I keep saying, it's not where you start. It's where you finish.
I honestly believe, and I've said this a few times, too, that there'd be some Saints supporters who'd feel a tinge of disappointment if we won the flag, because all of a sudden, we're not the underdogs anymore. I had one clown last year say he didn't even want to make the finals. I had to walk away from that one.
The reason Leigh Matthews got Collingwood over the line in 1990 was because he created a bubble around the players, to protect them from the negative supporters and all the talk of the Collywobbles. That's almost what needs to be done with our boys, because the amount of negativity and lack of belief around the place is appalling.
For some reason, while we all love the club and will defend it if under attack, there's little pride. What have we got to be proud of? If you have to ask that, then what are you doing here?
I love the fact that my mates say I speak about the club with a sense of pride, determination, and quiet confidence. Collectively, we need to embrace greatness. Not be scared of it, but welcome it. Not go into games thinking of the ramifications of a loss, but the benefits of a win. Not fear the disappointment that could follow, like Geelong did in last year's grand final, but go for, and expect, the glory of the ultimate win, as the Hawks did.
In fact, that game highlights in a nutshell the different mental attitudes between the two sides, and the consequences of both ways of thinking. One goes out trying not to lose, the other goes out trying to claim a scalp.
At 3/4 time in the 1971 grand final, we were 20-odd points up against Hawthorn, and we'd won as many flags as they had at the time. Both teams were at the same fork in the road. And went in completely opposite directions.
I often go on about the need for steel, if not mongrel, on the field. But it's just as important we have it off field as well.

[markp]

Great thread. For me it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic, but realistic. By all means, people are entitled to let it be known that they're not happy with a sub-standard performance. But it has to be done in the context of an overall trend.
I don't know how anyone can be too up or down over a game in round one. Yeah, it's good to win, and I was really pleased with the team's effort. But either way, it's wasn't going to make or break our season. I keep saying, it's not where you start. It's where you finish.
I honestly believe, and I've said this a few times, too, that there'd be some Saints supporters who'd feel a tinge of disappointment if we won the flag, because all of a sudden, we're not the underdogs anymore. I had one clown last year say he didn't even want to make the finals. I had to walk away from that one.
The reason Leigh Matthews got Collingwood over the line in 1990 was because he created a bubble around the players, to protect them from the negative supporters and all the talk of the Collywobbles. That's almost what needs to be done with our boys, because the amount of negativity and lack of belief around the place is appalling.
For some reason, while we all love the club and will defend it if under attack, there's little pride. What have we got to be proud of? If you have to ask that, then what are you doing here?
I love the fact that my mates say I speak about the club with a sense of pride, determination, and quiet confidence. Collectively, we need to embrace greatness. Not be scared of it, but welcome it. Not go into games thinking of the ramifications of a loss, but the benefits of a win. Not fear the disappointment that could follow, like Geelong did in last year's grand final, but go for, and expect, the glory of the ultimate win, as the Hawks did.
In fact, that game highlights in a nutshell the different mental attitudes between the two sides, and the consequences of both ways of thinking. One goes out trying not to lose, the other goes out trying to claim a scalp.
At 3/4 time in the 1971 grand final, we were 20-odd points up against Hawthorn, and we'd won as many flags as they had at the time. Both teams were at the same fork in the road. And went in completely opposite directions.
I often go on about the need for steel, if not mongrel, on the field. But it's just as important we have it off field as well.

Top post.... we write our own personal narrative, and if we are defeatist and act like victims then we are doomed.

It's a new era, and every season is a fresh start. We are primed for a genuine tilt at the flag this season... positive reinforcement and belief will play a very important role.

[ctqs]

Great thread. For me it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic, but realistic. By all means, people are entitled to let it be known that they're not happy with a sub-standard performance. But it has to be done in the context of an overall trend.
I don't know how anyone can be too up or down over a game in round one. Yeah, it's good to win, and I was really pleased with the team's effort. But either way, it's wasn't going to make or break our season. I keep saying, it's not where you start. It's where you finish.
I honestly believe, and I've said this a few times, too, that there'd be some Saints supporters who'd feel a tinge of disappointment if we won the flag, because all of a sudden, we're not the underdogs anymore. I had one clown last year say he didn't even want to make the finals. I had to walk away from that one.
The reason Leigh Matthews got Collingwood over the line in 1990 was because he created a bubble around the players, to protect them from the negative supporters and all the talk of the Collywobbles. That's almost what needs to be done with our boys, because the amount of negativity and lack of belief around the place is appalling.
For some reason, while we all love the club and will defend it if under attack, there's little pride. What have we got to be proud of? If you have to ask that, then what are you doing here?
I love the fact that my mates say I speak about the club with a sense of pride, determination, and quiet confidence. Collectively, we need to embrace greatness. Not be scared of it, but welcome it. Not go into games thinking of the ramifications of a loss, but the benefits of a win. Not fear the disappointment that could follow, like Geelong did in last year's grand final, but go for, and expect, the glory of the ultimate win, as the Hawks did.
In fact, that game highlights in a nutshell the different mental attitudes between the two sides, and the consequences of both ways of thinking. One goes out trying not to lose, the other goes out trying to claim a scalp.
At 3/4 time in the 1971 grand final, we were 20-odd points up against Hawthorn, and we'd won as many flags as they had at the time. Both teams were at the same fork in the road. And went in completely opposite directions.
I often go on about the need for steel, if not mongrel, on the field. But it's just as important we have it off field as well.

Top post.... we write our own personal narrative, and if we are defeatist and act like victims then we are doomed.

It's a new era, and every season is a fresh start. We are primed for a genuine tilt at the flag this season... positive reinforcement and belief will play a very important role.

Thanks. A small thing we all can do ... Let's start talking about "when" we win the flag, whenever that may be, not "if". Because we will win the flag. It's just a question of when, not if. And I reckon it may be closer than a lot of people think. Not because of round one, but because of three prelim finals in five years. A coach with tactical nous to go with a hard nose. Polished performers on the field. And even a bit of spit to go with it.

[HarveysDeciple]

The thing that annoys me is when people have a total lack of understanding about a game, and then they bag a player.

For example on saturday night, Kozi led hard inside fifty, someone kicked it too him against 3 sydney opponents, the ball dropped short and was marked 15 metres in front of him by a Sydney defender and someone yells out "Your hopeless Kozi, you never do anything".

I mean FFS!!! Get your head examined before walking through the gate.

Last year in the Freo win, after taking 16 marks at CHF in a dominant display, Riewoldt runs back into defence in the last 2 minutes with us leading by 8 points and takes 2 match saving marks.

Fans around me are screaming, "what are you doing down there roo, you can't kick goals from the backline, what a waste" etc.

Some people just have no effing idea!!

[stinger]

and of course I'd imagine Billy Barrot was never popular with the fans

well....seeing he only played two very mediocre games for the saints and he was swapped for a double brownlow medalist...i guess we never got a chance to warm to him..... ...or boo him for that matter....


.bit of a rough diamond but good bloke all the same.... jordie tec boy...grew up with him ....his brother wes... was more my age though.....

[saintly_safes]

I am probably guilty of being a bit negative, but I havent always been that way. I was positive we would win the flag in 97 & 04 . I even thought we were in with a good chance at the start of last season .To label people who have supported the club through thick & thin (mostly thin) miserable shows a lack of understanding of where people like myself sit in the big scheme of things.We still love the club & want more than anything to see the club prosper & become successful.We have had our opportunities & have failed to capitalize on what could of been. Over 40 years with out a flag & only making 2 grand finals in that time tests even the most loyal of supporters.The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

[ctqs]

The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

Remind me, where did we finish last year? Yeah, we were ordinary at times, but I could've sworn we finished in the top four and made the prelim, only to lose to the eventual premier again, a team we beat during the year.
Why aren't we able to win a flag? Are you saying we're no chance at all? Who's ahead of us? Why can't we have things go our way on the day, as happened to Hawthorn on grand final day last year?
This is exactly what I was referring to earlier.

[saint patrick]

If we don't win a flag within the next 10 years, I reckon I'm going to be that supporter.

Honestly, I reckon years, decades of heartbreak would do that to you.

Walk a mile in my shoes brother....71,97,05,06,08

[ctqs]

If we don't win a flag within the next 10 years, I reckon I'm going to be that supporter.

Honestly, I reckon years, decades of heartbreak would do that to you.

Walk a mile in my shoes brother....71,97,05,06,08

Everyone's got a story. I came on board in 1983, aged 11. If anything was going to be ingrained, it could've been that down and out mentality.
But it's not what happens to you in life that defines you. It's what you make of it.

[saint patrick]

I honestly believe, and I've said this a few times, too, that there'd be some Saints supporters who'd feel a tinge of disappointment if we won the flag, because all of a sudden, we're not the underdogs anymore.

Brilliant post but don't count me in this headcase group if it exists.

Want to see a flag [desperately!!!!]before I die[turned 50 in Jan] .
Just unthinkable not to experience that pure bliss and almighty piss up

[saintly_safes]

The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

Remind me, where did we finish last year? Yeah, we were ordinary at times, but I could've sworn we finished in the top four and made the prelim, only to lose to the eventual premier again, a team we beat during the year.
Why aren't we able to win a flag? Are you saying we're no chance at all? Who's ahead of us? Why can't we have things go our way on the day, as happened to Hawthorn on grand final day last year?
This is exactly what I was referring to earlier.

To be brutally honest we fell into 4 place & as much as I think they did a great job to finish that high it was flattering. Im not blaming the present side for where were at , the wheel has turned we had a chance & we failed.The team is fighting out of their division , you carnt deny their courage & work ethic but they dont have skill level to beat a Geelong or Hawthorn at the pointy end of the season imo.

[The Fireman]

I bagged the whole team once.
I walked upto the race in Canberra after a Nathan Burke milestone and absolutely paid out on the whole team for their insipid performance which in my mind disrespected Burky.
They were pathetic... as if they had been out on the turps all night before the game and if any Saint supporters nearby had a crack at me for it , well let's just say it would have been a bad mistake.

Not making excuses but I must admit this is an isolated incident but anyone who loves the Saints yet wants to let some steam off , so be it.
I know a guy who I have been critical of in the past for bagging players but now i realize he still goes to the games, he is still a Saints member, he still loves the club and that is good enough for me.

[ctqs]

The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

Remind me, where did we finish last year? Yeah, we were ordinary at times, but I could've sworn we finished in the top four and made the prelim, only to lose to the eventual premier again, a team we beat during the year.
Why aren't we able to win a flag? Are you saying we're no chance at all? Who's ahead of us? Why can't we have things go our way on the day, as happened to Hawthorn on grand final day last year?
This is exactly what I was referring to earlier.

To be brutally honest we fell into 4 place & as much as I think they did a great job to finish that high it was flattering. Im not blaming the present side for where were at , the wheel has turned we had a chance & we failed.The team is fighting out of their division , you carnt deny their courage & work ethic but they dont have skill level to beat a Geelong or Hawthorn at the pointy end of the season imo.

How can you fall into fourth place? It's something that takes six months to achieve. You don't just fall into a 20-goal smashing. How can you put us down and write us off like that after one game? We've won two out every three games since mid 2007, when Lyon acknowledged changes needed to be made.

[saintly_safes]

The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

Remind me, where did we finish last year? Yeah, we were ordinary at times, but I could've sworn we finished in the top four and made the prelim, only to lose to the eventual premier again, a team we beat during the year.
Why aren't we able to win a flag? Are you saying we're no chance at all? Who's ahead of us? Why can't we have things go our way on the day, as happened to Hawthorn on grand final day last year?
This is exactly what I was referring to earlier.

To be brutally honest we fell into 4 place & as much as I think they did a great job to finish that high it was flattering. Im not blaming the present side for where were at , the wheel has turned we had a chance & we failed.The team is fighting out of their division , you carnt deny their courage & work ethic but they dont have skill level to beat a Geelong or Hawthorn at the pointy end of the season imo.

How can you fall into fourth place? It's something that takes six months to achieve. You don't just fall into a 20-goal smashing. How can you put us down and write us off like that after one game? We've won two out every three games since mid 2007, when Lyon acknowledged changes needed to be made.

As stated this is imo. I respect your point of view & admire your optimism .I honestly hope my assessment of our current squads talent is proven wrong , i guess only time will tell .Cheers saintly_safes

[ctqs]

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm not having a go. I rarely do that, especially if the opinion is considered. I'm genuinely curious on your belief and how you reached it.

[Teflon]

I can categorically say, that in the 28 years I've been following the footy, I've never once, ever abused a Saints player or official.

I don't know why you would. It doesn't make sense.


Watching the footy, and critiquing performance is pretty the essence of the game for me (once you stop playing of course).

But getting angry at your club?

Odd.

good post Rodg.

Whats even weirder is supporters who constantly bemoan how "over" the team they, how much passion they lack for the team/game...... and yet who still find an incredible amount of time to trawl a footy internet site discussing threads relating to passionate following of the team they are "over"....

disturbing....

[WayneJudson42]

I can categorically say, that in the 28 years I've been following the footy, I've never once, ever abused a Saints player or official.

I don't know why you would. It doesn't make sense.


Watching the footy, and critiquing performance is pretty the essence of the game for me (once you stop playing of course).

But getting angry at your club?

Odd.

good post Rodg.

Whats even weirder is supporters who constantly bemoan how "over" the team they, how much passion they lack for the team/game...... and yet who still find an incredible amount of time to trawl a footy internet site discussing threads relating to passionate following of the team they are "over"....

disturbing....

I would have thought that calling the officals "liars" after the Cousins decision was abusing a club official??

Maybe it's ok to do it online as opposed to doing it at a game.

[SainterK]

The main reason i've started to be negative is because with the team we have we are not going to win a flag in the foreseeable future because imo like it or not we are not up the standard of the top 3 or 4 clubs but the most frustrating fact is we were.

Remind me, where did we finish last year? Yeah, we were ordinary at times, but I could've sworn we finished in the top four and made the prelim, only to lose to the eventual premier again, a team we beat during the year.
Why aren't we able to win a flag? Are you saying we're no chance at all? Who's ahead of us? Why can't we have things go our way on the day, as happened to Hawthorn on grand final day last year?
This is exactly what I was referring to earlier.

To be brutally honest we fell into 4 place & as much as I think they did a great job to finish that high it was flattering. Im not blaming the present side for where were at , the wheel has turned we had a chance & we failed.The team is fighting out of their division , you carnt deny their courage & work ethic but they dont have skill level to beat a Geelong or Hawthorn at the pointy end of the season imo.

How can you fall into fourth place? It's something that takes six months to achieve. You don't just fall into a 20-goal smashing. How can you put us down and write us off like that after one game? We've won two out every three games since mid 2007, when Lyon acknowledged changes needed to be made.

As stated this is imo. I respect your point of view & admire your optimism .I honestly hope my assessment of our current squads talent is proven wrong , i guess only time will tell .Cheers saintly_safes

Don't get me wrong either, but I am still not sure how exactly you fall into fourth place? Perhaps if a team was disqualified or withdrew from the competition, then your progression up the ladder could be described in this way. Other than that, I can't comprehend how fourth place was not ours by the earning. Perhaps this is a perspective that I just fail to comprehend, which is fine....