Allen out for 2009!

[Solar]

I am more and more excited by the idea of chips playing forward. The way chips plays is by reading the play and lets be honest, he is a running half back more then a shut down KPB. If and perhaps only IF goose gets back then perhaps chips is the answer. good kick for goal..

TTT, I like the idea of releasing roo up field and allowing kosi CHF thus we can move a couple of forwards around that deeper position depending on match ups, this is what the hawks do. They play a three tall structure that rotate through different parts of the forward 50. The forward set up needs to become a crew so to speak, work each other into space and create options and chances for each other

I like the idea of

Talls: kosi, chips, bigmac
mediums: one of lynch/hynds/gwilt/BJ
smalls: schneids, milne and steven

[Armoooo]

There's a big opportunity here for one man in particular.....

...... James Gwilt......

I'm not convinced that he's much more than a handy VFL player, but with the delisting of Ferg and Gardiner, and now Allen's injury - the likes of Lynch a couple of seasons away, well, it's his big chance to show he wasn't just a one-game wonder (PF vs Crows)

He has the body, and the kick...... I just doubt he has the natural footballing skills or nous....... we'll see next year....

True, it's now or never for the man with the 'fro... TBH I don't think he is up to it but I pray he is, he has good hands and is a beautiful kick, if he could get some desire for the ball about him and get himself into games a bit more, we would look so much better...

[Solar]

There's a big opportunity here for one man in particular.....

...... James Gwilt......

I'm not convinced that he's much more than a handy VFL player, but with the delisting of Ferg and Gardiner, and now Allen's injury - the likes of Lynch a couple of seasons away, well, it's his big chance to show he wasn't just a one-game wonder (PF vs Crows)

He has the body, and the kick...... I just doubt he has the natural footballing skills or nous....... we'll see next year....

True, it's now or never for the man with the 'fro... TBH I don't think he is up to it but I pray he is, he has good hands and is a beautiful kick, if he could get some desire for the ball about him and get himself into games a bit more, we would look so much better...

thats a real good discription on why jimmy has not made it yet, desire.... if he has the intensity and drive of some others with less physical atributes he would be on his way to a very successful career. It was very plain that at the lower level he just did not DEMAND the ball. You compare him to BJ, BJ reads the play and puts himself in the position to change the match. He wants the ball, wants to be the one dictating play. Jimmy seems to be happy to run around and if he happens to end up with it all the better. Would love to see him go a little nuts and WANT IT.

[bobmurray]

I think James Gwilt is lacking in a few areas..

If the Saints medical staff injected him with desire pre game i'm sure he'd still be short on ability.....

I've seen him play often and i don't think he's any better than Birss or Ferguson and those two have been shown the door....

I hope this season he shows all of us what he has got and then we'll know one way or the other......

[St Fidelius]

I think James Gwilt is lacking in a few areas..

If the Saints medical staff injected him with desire pre game i'm sure he'd still be short on ability.....

I've seen him play often and i don't think he's any better than Birss or Ferguson and those two have been shown the door....

I hope this season he shows all of us what he has got and then we'll know one way or the other......

Ferguson had far more skill and ability than Gwilt, but unfortunately he kept breaking down

[BigMart]

Taking Sam Fisher away from HB where he was All Aust.. would be a strange move...

Jason Blake was excellent as a defender last season, rarely beaten.....and can take mobile/big CHF's (Cloke etc....) so taking him out would be an issue....maybe to pinch hit in the ruck or do a shut down job somwhere...

Raph Clarke, Sam Gilbert and Dempster were first choice defenders come seasons end, and Gram/Goddard rotated through the Middle and Running Back.....Dempster is gone and his shut down role on small fwds needs to be picked up by probably Bakes...L.Fisher or Geary

If goose were to play in our back half, it would seriously weaken the defence.....he is not agile/fit enough to go with a hard working or fast fwd nor is he good enough to play on a power fwd. He could be an option though...if needed

I think to reinvent himself, he needs to become an aggressive fwd (Mooney) not a goalkicker, but a target and a contest....he could hit up like Hamill or contest a high ball..and take the heat off Roo....if he got a third tall defender, he would be a danger in the air.......he needs another string to his bow......otherwise he may never make the team (unless a defender gets injured)....

Jason Blake can play effectively anywhere, given a role......eg, if he were to play as a third tall fwd, it would be to primarily to use his tank..... or do a defensive job (on a offensive defender) not as a goalkicker...

Niether of these will kick more than 1.5 a game on average....but will assist Roo....Milne....Kosi....Schnieds.....X be more effective.....

A fwd line is about structure.....not individuals.....team work, system and discipline creates goals

[older saint]

Gwilt or Gilbert for Me

Gwilt is a strong mark, good evasive skills and can kick.

Gilbert is good size and was shown up in defence v Hawthorn in the final with his man just pushing to the square, exposing his shrinking ring every time he got closer to goal.

McEvoy would make us too slow with Kosi and Roo.

Fisher is ahalf back who reads the ball well. Maguire has never worked as a forward, Blake is apich hitter.
Drafts picks, expecting a bit much perhaps in year 1. Perhaps BJ becomes a resting FFlanker when not in the middle.

[BigMart]

Has Gwilt ever taken a contested mark????

That is a serious question.......

He is solidly built, but the style of game he plays.....he may as well be built like Grammy.....


Gilbo looks uncomfortable trying to find the ball.....and he runs in lines (breaks them), which is the hallmark of a back half player.....

[maverick]

Taking Sam Fisher away from HB where he was All Aust.. would be a strange move...

Jason Blake was excellent as a defender last season, rarely beaten.....and can take mobile/big CHF's (Cloke etc....) so taking him out would be an issue....maybe to pinch hit in the ruck or do a shut down job somwhere...

Raph Clarke, Sam Gilbert and Dempster were first choice defenders come seasons end, and Gram/Goddard rotated through the Middle and Running Back.....Dempster is gone and his shut down role on small fwds needs to be picked up by probably Bakes...L.Fisher or Geary

If goose were to play in our back half, it would seriously weaken the defence.....he is not agile/fit enough to go with a hard working or fast fwd nor is he good enough to play on a power fwd. He could be an option though...if needed

I think to reinvent himself, he needs to become an aggressive fwd (Mooney) not a goalkicker, but a target and a contest....he could hit up like Hamill or contest a high ball..and take the heat off Roo....if he got a third tall defender, he would be a danger in the air.......he needs another string to his bow......otherwise he may never make the team (unless a defender gets injured)....

Jason Blake can play effectively anywhere, given a role......eg, if he were to play as a third tall fwd, it would be to primarily to use his tank..... or do a defensive job (on a offensive defender) not as a goalkicker...

Niether of these will kick more than 1.5 a game on average....but will assist Roo....Milne....Kosi....Schnieds.....X be more effective.....

A fwd line is about structure.....not individuals.....team work, system and discipline creates goals

I agree on this, I see Goose as a forward, taking Fish away from defence kills it, Max beats his man but does not marshall the defence.

[Cro]

I agree on this, I see Goose as a forward, taking Fish away from defence kills it, Max beats his man but does not marshall the defence.

I agree, Fish has to stay in the back half. He's one of the the few guys that isn't afraid to kick the ball long.

Half our forward line problem stems from slow ball movement, so we can't be putting our best ball movers in the forward line.

It may be a bit much to expect much from the draftees, but we have to try someone up there, is there much harm in giving them a go? Geelong got a lot out of first year players in the last two seasons, looking at Selwood and Taylor. So we could be lucky and get something now.

[borderbarry]

I am not sure what position Lynch and Heyne will end up in but it wont be full forward. Cahill is another matter. Plugger started off his first season as forward pocket next to Jacko. I would hope to see Cahill get some games in that position this season, with a view to christening him as full forward in 2010. I dont believe Maguire would be the answer there.

[evertonfc]

Gwilt is simply too lethargic and struggles under any type of physical pressure.

We're talking about a role which Aaron Hamill owned and it gave us so much - and now we want a bloke with few (arguably none) of his characterisitics to become his successor?

Gwilt has a nicer kicking style, but seriously, that's it.

Won't happen.

Ferguson showed from very, very limited game time that his natural role was up forward as a flanker - not a mid-sized backman. I had him canned as crap until he had a dig up forward, and he showed a lot more. I'd have kept Ferg or Charlie Gardiner over Gwilt to be completely honest. I guess injuries hurt the former and age the latter.

I think we're a bit screwed for the third tall role. My hope - and it's a longshot - is that Lynch can have a Westhoff type impact.

And I wouldn't hestitate to try and get 10-12 games into him next year. I think we're a bit hesitant to throw kids in early in the season, and that's when I'd get him in. At 20-21, he'll be a far better player for it.

[bigcarl]

Gwilt is a strong mark, good evasive skills and can kick.

gwilt played quite a few games in the forward line towards the end of 2008, but managed just three goals three behinds for the season.

don't mind him as a half back or winger, but have my doubts about him as a goal kicking forward.

[bigcarl]

allowing Riewoldt to become a true utility player - where his skills will win a Brownlow.

no doubt he'd go close to a brownlow in the "richo" role, but wouldn't taking him out of the forward line leave us without a goalkicking key forward all together?

Winning the ruck and the mid-field is the name of the game.

it is vital, but don't underestimate converting opportunities to goals.

[saint66au]

Taking Sam Fisher away from HB where he was All Aust.. would be a strange move...

Jason Blake was excellent as a defender last season, rarely beaten.....and can take mobile/big CHF's (Cloke etc....) so taking him out would be an issue....maybe to pinch hit in the ruck or do a shut down job somwhere...

Raph Clarke, Sam Gilbert and Dempster were first choice defenders come seasons end, and Gram/Goddard rotated through the Middle and Running Back.....Dempster is gone and his shut down role on small fwds needs to be picked up by probably Bakes...L.Fisher or Geary

If goose were to play in our back half, it would seriously weaken the defence.....he is not agile/fit enough to go with a hard working or fast fwd nor is he good enough to play on a power fwd. He could be an option though...if needed

I think to reinvent himself, he needs to become an aggressive fwd (Mooney) not a goalkicker, but a target and a contest....he could hit up like Hamill or contest a high ball..and take the heat off Roo....if he got a third tall defender, he would be a danger in the air.......he needs another string to his bow......otherwise he may never make the team (unless a defender gets injured)....

Jason Blake can play effectively anywhere, given a role......eg, if he were to play as a third tall fwd, it would be to primarily to use his tank..... or do a defensive job (on a offensive defender) not as a goalkicker...

Niether of these will kick more than 1.5 a game on average....but will assist Roo....Milne....Kosi....Schnieds.....X be more effective.....

A fwd line is about structure.....not individuals.....team work, system and discipline creates goals

Excellent post

Goose is the wild card this year..and giving him a run in the front half in the NAB Cup is definately an option. Its important its the NAB Cup because i think its critical that he's fit enough to play pre-season. If Round 1 comes along and he's had no game time, we might has well write him off for the 1st half of the season. He's missed a hell of a lot of footy and hes not an agile BJ-type, who bounced back from an ACL-year off to playing great footy virtually from his first game back. History has also shown that he's not a great contributor when less than 100% match-fit.

[mad saint guy]

Is it possible that we can somehow take another player in the pre season draft? Could we delist and rookie Allen and take a mature forward in the PSD? Or are all delisting deadlines closed?

Because I'm pretty sure he would have been pencilled in as the third forward this year and going by recent history, Lyon won't want to rely on new kids playing senior footy.

It wouldn't surprise me if we either figure out a way to recruit a discard or take a mature rookie FF from a state competiton.

[St Fidelius]

Is it possible that we can somehow take another player in the pre season draft? Could we delist and rookie Allen and take a mature forward in the PSD? Or are all delisting deadlines closed?

Because I'm pretty sure he would have been pencilled in as the third forward this year and going by recent history, Lyon won't want to rely on new kids playing senior footy.

It wouldn't surprise me if we either figure out a way to recruit a discard or take a mature rookie FF from a state competiton.

To late for any further delistings, in any case it will just give a rookie the chance to show his worth and be promoted this year IMO

[Con Gorozidis]

this is awful news. im gutted. one of the 08 draftees is going to have to step up bigtime and play as a 3rd tall forward in a pocket.

Im tipping Paul Cahill - looks more a goal kicker than Lynch . I see Lynch more as the next key defender (to replace Maxy).

[peter lockwood]

Why dont we do a richmond and put Allen on the long term injury list and get someone in the PSD.

[spert]

Pity about Allen. Gwilt has been put everywhere but where I reckon his natural place is -the centre. I reckon he would be the right player for that position as he has a strong body, good skills with a penetrating kick -one thing our current midfielders lack. Gilbert worries me, and I would like him anywhere but the backline after this season's efforts.

[Solar]

Why dont we do a richmond and put Allen on the long term injury list and get someone in the PSD.

push him under a tram......

[sunsaint]

It seems intriguing and sort of worrying to read that no one is really calling for Kosi to step up to be 50+ goal kicker next year...but yet most are calling for a completely untried kid to fill the void.
The way I see it, Kosi does not have the tank to fill in at CHF, so Roo is stuck there. Kosi must add more goals this year to his role at FF. Milne at his feet, & not that I like it but Schneider 25-35mt out applying a bit of defensive pressure. Now hang on to your hats, but try this one on, how about NDS and Leigh Fischer on either side of Roo.

[bigcarl]

try this one on, how about NDS and Leigh Fischer on either side of Roo.

always liked the idea of dal on a forward flank where he'd provide a real headache for an opposition concentrating all its resources on roo.

dal is a brilliant player, creative and highly-skilled, but it might be that he just doesn't have the tank to be a gut-running midfielder who burns off taggers at will.

leigh fisher looks like a nuggety, solid backpocket or run-with onballer to me, but who knows?

It seems intriguing and sort of worrying to read that no one is really calling for Kosi to step up to be 50+ goal kicker next year...but yet most are calling for a completely untried kid to fill the void..

i think the reason is that ross came out mid-season and said he and kosi agree that second ruck is his best position.

i guess if he came out and booted a couple of bags in the NAB cup, the thinking would change pretty quickly.

[sunsaint]

It seems intriguing and sort of worrying to read that no one is really calling for Kosi to step up to be 50+ goal kicker next year...but yet most are calling for a completely untried kid to fill the void..

i think the reason is that ross came out mid-season and said he and kosi agree that second ruck is his best position.

i guess if he came out and booted a couple of bags in the NAB cup, the thinking would change pretty quickly.

Yeha I know about the quote, but can the club/fans accept a player of Kosi's "class" and paycheck to play @33% game time as second ruck and getting splinters for the rest?