KOSI

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ctqs
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Post: # 654130Post ctqs »

Bernard Shakey wrote:
Thinline wrote:Prove that, Bernard.
I've seen every Saints game in Melbourne and 2 interstate this year and also most open training sessions.

In my opinion Kosi plays as he trains and doesn't try.

What a dumb comment by you Thinline. Says to me you are about 12 or 13, because only a kid would come out with a comment like "Prove that".
I'll provide some evidence. The last straw for me was the way he just watched as a Geelong player took an uncontested mark on our goal line in the final a few weeks ago. Poor effort and a lack of team ethic.
I'm not saying delist him for nothing, but only if the right offer came along.


Still waiting for closure ... if you get my drift.
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Post: # 654139Post SainterK »

I am one of the people who doesn't want Kosi traded, and I think that we would be crazy to do so.

I am not suggesting that he should be untouchable, if he's hopefully still with us next year and is lazy or doesn't do his best....then by all means give him a stint in the seconds!

I just post so often on this subject (well there is so many Kosi threads that I have a lot of opportunity) because people say trade him so flippantly, without coming up with any credible alternative...


Marcus1232
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Post: # 654142Post Marcus1232 »

I think that alot of ppl expect him to be as good as riedwolt..

3-4 yrs ago i woulda said he had the potential to possibly be better..

But i now think that everytime he starts to look good he always seems to get injured which would destroy ur confidence and put u back at stage 1 all over again.

Against geelong every1 was terrible not only him.

And against hawthorn he was far from our worst he got hurt early on in the marking contest with hodge and wasnt right from then on, but he soldiered on.

It would be a shame to trade him because i think if he has a solid pre season and stays uninjured he has the ability to be one of the most damaging utilities in the game, but i just get the feeling that the saints might do there stupid trade s*** they do and trade him off.


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Post: # 654147Post saintly_safes »

Bernard Shakey wrote:
Thinline wrote:
Bernard Shakey wrote:Kosi is a dud.

Time for him to move on.

Four great games in 8 seasons is nowhere good enough.

He is not up to it.

Someone said fix his knee up and he will be a great CHB.
There's nothing wrong with his knee. He's basically played 3 full seasons in a row and done nothing.
Your apparent musical judgement does not extend to our no 23?

Perhaps an analogy is in order. Neil, having been groomed as a next big thing from his association with super group Buffalo Springfield (his pesonal draft camp if you will), starts out with a quiet, understated self titled effort, moves on to the rambling beauty of 'Everybody Knows...' before (in rough order) a series of classics in Harvest, On the Beach, American Stars and Bars, and Tonights the Night. Then, just as everyone thinks he's the best thing ever in history, he befuddles his admirers with a string of unlistenable garbage in Trans and that Shocking Pinks effort etc before knocking us all dead with a resurgence commencing with Harvest Moon. And since, despite the odd well-intentioned album where he's toyed with thematic records (something foreign to him previously) his effort couldn't be questioned (Greendale, Living with War) and since he's he's surged again with Chrome Dreams. Like many, I believe his best work is ahead of him.

The point?

Kosi, like Neil, will reinvent himself and when we look back on his journey on the whole we'll be more than satisfied.

I hope.

Love the analogy Thinline. Unfortunately it doesn't work.

With Neil we are are talking over 40 years and about 5 years of "unlistenable garbage" . Maybe 20% crap.

With Kosi we are talking 8 years and about 1 year (being generous) of decent football. 12.5% good football. 87.5% crap.

I rest my case.
You have been a Kosi basher all year & I have tried my hardest to stay civil about your tirade againt him(only because your a so called saint supporter) but enough enough. You are a perfect example of a supporter that wants their cake & to eat it too. 4 great games in 8 years ,I think you' ve got a very selective memory.He won the rising star award in his first year & since even through injury & adversity he has been able to keep his place in a side 8 years later that finished in the top 4 not bad for a guy that has only played 4 great games in his career.Morons like you should barrack for Collingwood


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Post: # 654158Post st.byron »

saintly_safes wrote: You have been a Kosi basher all year & I have tried my hardest to stay civil about your tirade againt him(only because your a so called saint supporter) but enough enough. You are a perfect example of a supporter that wants their cake & to eat it too. 4 great games in 8 years ,I think you' ve got a very selective memory.He won the rising star award in his first year & since even through injury & adversity he has been able to keep his place in a side 8 years later that finished in the top 4 not bad for a guy that has only played 4 great games in his career.Morons like you should barrack for Collingwood

just because someone's willing to assess Kosi on his actual performances rather what he could be doesn't mean he's not a fair dinkum Saints supporter.
Your post about keeping his place through injury and adversity just sounds like more glossing over the facts of what he's actually delivered, especially in the past two years, when he's played two nearly full seasons.
No excuses for injury and adversity in 2007 and 2008. Just two seasons of consistent inconsistency.


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Post: # 654182Post To the top »

St Byron, perched on 1999 I think it is time you changed hands.


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Post: # 654185Post saintly_safes »

st.byron wrote:
saintly_safes wrote: You have been a Kosi basher all year & I have tried my hardest to stay civil about your tirade againt him(only because your a so called saint supporter) but enough enough. You are a perfect example of a supporter that wants their cake & to eat it too. 4 great games in 8 years ,I think you' ve got a very selective memory.He won the rising star award in his first year & since even through injury & adversity he has been able to keep his place in a side 8 years later that finished in the top 4 not bad for a guy that has only played 4 great games in his career.Morons like you should barrack for Collingwood

just because someone's willing to assess Kosi on his actual performances rather what he could be doesn't mean he's not a fair dinkum Saints supporter.
Your post about keeping his place through injury and adversity just sounds like more glossing over the facts of what he's actually delivered, especially in the past two years, when he's played two nearly full seasons.
No excuses for injury and adversity in 2007 and 2008. Just two seasons of consistent inconsistency.


Well St Byron if you want to put yourself in the same bracket as Bernard then maybe you should move down to Vic Park with him . Im not saying he a star ,im saying he a required player that has been servicable & is alot better than you & your cronies give him credit for.I dont see you blokes out on the park playing against top quilty opposition week in week out but love to sit back in the comfort of your sheltered little world & take cheap shots at a guy that actually plays for a team that you think you support .Get a life ,go a play a bit of footy, get to Kosis level then bag him you hypocrit


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Post: # 654194Post plugger66 »

saintly_safes wrote:
st.byron wrote:
saintly_safes wrote: You have been a Kosi basher all year & I have tried my hardest to stay civil about your tirade againt him(only because your a so called saint supporter) but enough enough. You are a perfect example of a supporter that wants their cake & to eat it too. 4 great games in 8 years ,I think you' ve got a very selective memory.He won the rising star award in his first year & since even through injury & adversity he has been able to keep his place in a side 8 years later that finished in the top 4 not bad for a guy that has only played 4 great games in his career.Morons like you should barrack for Collingwood

just because someone's willing to assess Kosi on his actual performances rather what he could be doesn't mean he's not a fair dinkum Saints supporter.
Your post about keeping his place through injury and adversity just sounds like more glossing over the facts of what he's actually delivered, especially in the past two years, when he's played two nearly full seasons.
No excuses for injury and adversity in 2007 and 2008. Just two seasons of consistent inconsistency.


Well St Byron if you want to put yourself in the same bracket as Bernard then maybe you should move down to Vic Park with him . Im not saying he a star ,im saying he a required player that has been servicable & is alot better than you & your cronies give him credit for.I dont see you blokes out on the park playing against top quilty opposition week in week out but love to sit back in the comfort of your sheltered little world & take cheap shots at a guy that actually plays for a team that you think you support .Get a life ,go a play a bit of footy, get to Kosis level then bag him you hypocrit
If that is the case then we are never allowed to have an opinion either good or bad about a saints player again unless we have played in the AFL. Going to be pretty boring coming up to trade period because we will not even be able to give an opinion on if we should trade for a guy. Its a footy forum we can have any opinion we like surely. and dont call me surely.


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Post: # 654203Post WayneJudson42 »

Well, I guess he makes a "handy" bottom 6 player, when you look at it from an objective point of view. :D

And as Rodgefox has decreed... you DON'T trade for bottom 6 players!

P66, I agree again with your above post. It's the defend-the-player-at-all-costs which is another reason we have wallowed in mediocrity.


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Post: # 654209Post st.byron »

saintly_safes wrote: Well St Byron if you want to put yourself in the same bracket as Bernard then maybe you should move down to Vic Park with him . Im not saying he a star ,im saying he a required player that has been servicable & is alot better than you & your cronies give him credit for.I dont see you blokes out on the park playing against top quilty opposition week in week out but love to sit back in the comfort of your sheltered little world & take cheap shots at a guy that actually plays for a team that you think you support .Get a life ,go a play a bit of footy, get to Kosis level then bag him you hypocrit
Mate, stick to arguing about the players and forget the cheap shots. You can take all the cheap shots you like at me or anyone else who disagrees with you, it doesn't make any difference to my opinion about the subject, which is Koschitzke.
Try reading my other posts in this thread before launching your rant and you'll see that I actually advocate retaining him.
So, if Kosi's a lot better than he's being given credit for, why not list all of the things he does on the ground that I seem to be missing.
He's a serial under performer and we've been hearing for years about what a champ he's about to be. He's too inconsistent to even be regarded as a GOP. Am not saying trade him. Am saying he's not untouchable. Needs to seriously lift his game.

As for your rhetoric about "moving down to Vic Park", "I don't see you blokes out the park" and "get a life"etc, save it for arguing with someone who's interested in flinging crap at each other.


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Post: # 654256Post saintly_safes »

st.byron wrote:
saintly_safes wrote: Well St Byron if you want to put yourself in the same bracket as Bernard then maybe you should move down to Vic Park with him . Im not saying he a star ,im saying he a required player that has been servicable & is alot better than you & your cronies give him credit for.I dont see you blokes out on the park playing against top quilty opposition week in week out but love to sit back in the comfort of your sheltered little world & take cheap shots at a guy that actually plays for a team that you think you support .Get a life ,go a play a bit of footy, get to Kosis level then bag him you hypocrit
Mate, stick to arguing about the players and forget the cheap shots. You can take all the cheap shots you like at me or anyone else who disagrees with you, it doesn't make any difference to my opinion about the subject, which is Koschitzke.
Try reading my other posts in this thread before launching your rant and you'll see that I actually advocate retaining him.
So, if Kosi's a lot better than he's being given credit for, why not list all of the things he does on the ground that I seem to be missing.
He's a serial under performer and we've been hearing for years about what a champ he's about to be. He's too inconsistent to even be regarded as a GOP. Am not saying trade him. Am saying he's not untouchable. Needs to seriously lift his game.

As for your rhetoric about "moving down to Vic Park", "I don't see you blokes out the park" and "get a life"etc, save it for arguing with someone who's interested in flinging crap at each other.
You chose to enter into the debate , I was actually having a go at BS so if you dont want to cop crap dont fling it first.I have kept my composure all year but I am true saints fan & dont take kindly to armchair experts slagging of at my team
Last edited by saintly_safes on Fri 26 Sep 2008 1:16am, edited 1 time in total.


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Post: # 654258Post To the top »

If you serial wankers think Kosi is the reason for St Kilda's abysmal record and its current shortfalls you really have no idea.

Simply you do not have an opinion, you have a mindset which is presented as opinion.

And the reason St Kilda continues to wallow levels below the competition pace setters reflects in the calibre of opinion of some of its "supporters" who have obviously never pulled on a boot, and then defend their mind sets by saying that because you have never pulled on a boot does not mean you do not have a mind set.

It is not the mind set - it is the quality of the mind set.



I actually thought Koschitzke started quite well against Hawthorn, and was dangerous. There is no doubt he was inconvenienced when colliding with the fence taking a contested mark - which was unfortunately over the boundary line resulting in a free kick to Hawthorn for out on the full.

Both players hobbled away from that contest, and Koschitzke struggled from that time, after initially having great trouble straightening his knee, but continued to ruck and contest.

He was a long, long way from our worst.

And he is a required player at St Kilda because of his class and his ability.

You do not get rid of 197cm, 98kg players of class and ability.

In fact you do not get rid of any player with class and ability unless the player wants "out" or has a discipline record which can no longer be tolerated.



If the "supporter" from Fremantle, who obviously has forgotten to change hands on numerous occasions on the way to 1999, cared to open his eyes he would see Sandilands and the departing Warnock rucking for Fremantle.

Sandilands and Warnock were as much the reason for Fremantle's woes as Koschitzke is the reason for St Kilda's woes.

No doubt everyone has their opinions, but I am of the view that you build your side around quality footballers, and St Kilda need quite a few more quality footballers - not less.

And with a rucking division relying on King and M. Gardiner, then Rix and McEvoy, the injury to (initially King then) M. Gardiner saw Koschitzke having to ruck - against the Sandilands and Warnock's of this competition.

Hopefully King and M. Gardiner both stay on the park in 2009, and McEvoy progresses to put pressure on them - because then we will see the true worth of Koschitzke and the trouble other teams will have matching him up around the ground, playing in a true utility role.


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Post: # 654260Post Iceman234 »

TTT quality post, except for M Gards, think we've seen the last of him.

But Kosi, yes, a required player.

Some need to let the dust settle.

See the post by sRr re our "forum elected" team cum 2009.


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Post: # 654263Post Richter »

As so often Kosi is judged by the pressure of the pick at which he was taken, and against Nick Roewoldt who was taken one above him.

Take those things away and you're left with a B grade player who perfprms 2 vital roles in the team - back-up ruck and forward marking target.

Not quite the superstar we were hoping he would be but around the 10-15 mark out of our starting 22. That's ok.


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Post: # 654267Post Little Dozer »

In my opinion Kosi should be be put on the trade table and if a suitable trade can be done then so be it. Whilst we all love Kosi and want to see him do well football is a ruthless business and if we can improve our list then it must be done.

Kosi has had plenty of time to deliver on his once massive potential. Taking a massive pack mark here and there isn't enough. He gives away free kicks for fun and misses the simplest shots at goal.

Is there any scope for improvement? Perhaps, but in the past he has been injury prone and his awareness on the field is poor. Look at the incident where Luke Ball got injured. If we could land a player like Kerr or a high draft pick then the club should go for it.


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Post: # 654270Post st.byron »

saintly_safes wrote: You chose to enter into the debate , I was actually having a go at BS so if you dont want to cop crap dont fling it first.I have kept my composure all year but I am true saints fan & dont take kindly to armchair experts slagging of at my team
If you want to go on with the finger pointing and try it on that I flung crap at you first go right ahead.
All of your stuff about moving down to Vic Park etc. Bahhh!!
All I said to you was was that you were glossing over the facts about Kosi's performances. Didn't say anything at all about you personally. If you want to turn it into a personal slag session, go play with someone else.
I'm a true Saints fan too, but that doesn't mean I don't criticise where I think it's warranted. And in Kosi's case it's warranted. It's a forum.


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Post: # 654271Post SainterK »

Why don't we just get a sticky thread right at the top of the page for Kosi, saves a new one everyday :roll:


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Post: # 654272Post st.byron »

To the top wrote:If you serial wankers think Kosi is the reason for St Kilda's abysmal record and its current shortfalls you really have no idea.

.........

I actually thought Koschitzke started quite well against Hawthorn, and was dangerous. There is no doubt he was inconvenienced when colliding with the fence taking a contested mark - which was unfortunately over the boundary line resulting in a free kick to Hawthorn for out on the full.
.........

He was a long, long way from our worst.

And he is a required player at St Kilda because of his class and his ability.

You do not get rid of 197cm, 98kg players of class and ability.

.
Ignoring your cheap shots about serial wankers ......

Agree with a lot of what you wrote about developing the ruck division, but you've still got your hand in the sand about Kosi. Ability - yes. Class - not at the moment.
You talk about mindset. There's a mindset that clings on to the notion that Kosi is a gun. That's where the class and ability comments come from. You continue to evaluate him based on what he could be, not what he is.
I hope like everyone else on here that he develops into a genuinely good player for us. Would love to see it. But at present he's a long way from that.
Needs to be evaluated based on what he's done and not what he could do.
Simple. All the other stuff about "not pulling the boots on myself" etc is irrelevant.


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Post: # 654276Post saintly_safes »

st.byron wrote:
saintly_safes wrote: You chose to enter into the debate , I was actually having a go at BS so if you dont want to cop crap dont fling it first.I have kept my composure all year but I am true saints fan & dont take kindly to armchair experts slagging of at my team
If you want to go on with the finger pointing and try it on that I flung crap at you first go right ahead.
All of your stuff about moving down to Vic Park etc. Bahhh!!
All I said to you was was that you were glossing over the facts about Kosi's performances. Didn't say anything at all about you personally. If you want to turn it into a personal slag session, go play with someone else.
I'm a true Saints fan too, but that doesn't mean I don't criticise where I think it's warranted. And in Kosi's case it's warranted. It's a forum.
Bernard has been slagging of at kosi all year.I am the first to admit that kosi hasnt had a great year but you can get your point across without getting into the gutter.But after post opon post of negative propagander hes a dud & trade him & you back him.Well I think birds of a feather flock together & im not playing games I just have a little bit more respect for the club than you do .


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Post: # 654309Post saintbrat »

ST KILDA yesterday denied that contracted big-game flops, Nick Dal Santo and Justin Koschitzke, were being hawked around to rival clubs.

The highly paid pair, who are believed to each earn upwards of $450,000 a season, will remain at Moorabbin next season, unless "a massively attractive trade deal was offered", according to a senior Saints source. Rival Melbourne clubs yesterday reported that both players had been offered to them for first-round draft choices, but this was emphatically denied by St Kilda. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 32,00.html


with all the talking down being done around here I would doubt they would attract a "massively attractive deal" :roll:

I look forward to seeing them both fit, well and firing next year


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Post: # 654316Post Ghost Like »

saintbrat wrote:ST KILDA yesterday denied that contracted big-game flops, Nick Dal Santo and Justin Koschitzke, were being hawked around to rival clubs.

The highly paid pair, who are believed to each earn upwards of $450,000 a season, will remain at Moorabbin next season, unless "a massively attractive trade deal was offered", according to a senior Saints source. Rival Melbourne clubs yesterday reported that both players had been offered to them for first-round draft choices, but this was emphatically denied by St Kilda. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 32,00.html


with all the talking down being done around here I would doubt they would attract a "massively attractive deal" :roll:

I look forward to seeing them both fit, well and firing next year
Well said Brat. For all those calling them duds and requesting they be traded, what exactly do they expect in return? The way the Kosi and Dal detractors talk about these two we would be lucky to get a couple of 3rd round picks for them...is that really what you want? You can't call them duds then expect the world.

Let's be realistic, their performances don't warrant pay rises meaning they both will have to lift their ratings and when those ratings do lift St Kilda will be the beneficiaries,


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Post: # 654317Post saint66au »

That article is just grubby.

"Big-game flops"..Hmm..Isnt a Semi-final a big game? Dal BOG by most pundits.

By his reckoning we better throw Roo on that trade table as well, as he had a poor game against Geelong.

Still..if you write football for the Oz its not like anyone who cares about AFL is ever likely to read it 8-)


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Post: # 654332Post Thinline »

Bernard Shakey wrote:
Thinline wrote:Prove that, Bernard.
I've seen every Saints game in Melbourne and 2 interstate this year and also most open training sessions.

In my opinion Kosi plays as he trains and doesn't try.

What a dumb comment by you Thinline. Says to me you are about 12 or 13, because only a kid would come out with a comment like "Prove that".
Ease up, mate. You're being a bit touchy for someone who takes apparent delight in slinging it left right and centre. There's no need to attack me personally. Fair dinkum. You rip into Kos with steel capped boots at every opportunity and it's only fair you be asked to account for what I reckon is a pretty blinkered view. Asking you to validate youself is infinitely more mature than taking every chance you can to assassinate a bloke. What does that make you? Three?

What I saw, and threfore what you must have seen as well, is a player who kicked 30.21, smashed the occasional pack open, took the occasional great grab, and a lot of the time contested like a big bloke should. Hardly the stuff of someone who, as you so vehemently state, 'never tries'.

The flipside of course is that he also went missing too often, something that was frustrating to us all when we'd prefer him to be more consistent.

Add to that the valid point mentioned by many already that we have a cluster of midfielders, wingers, and back flankers who struggle to hit the side of a barn. In fact the only one who hits forward targets - usually Riewoldt - with anything approaching consistency is 37 and just left the game. I'd love it of Kos had go go gadget arms and hands like platters filled with glue, but fairs fair. For a bloke clearly struggling to play his best, you can hardly say with any authority that he's getting the best delivery. Now perhaps he isn't quick enough to be a KP forward or a lead up player. In that case it's up to Lyon and Barker to create a strategy to leave him one out in space and somehow upskill our delivery men to put the ball in something resembling the right place. Whatever. But the simple fact remains there are very few big men who play an interchangable forward/ruck role who are setting the game alight so we'd be foolish to forcibly remove ours. It'd leave a gaping hole we'd never fill. McEvoy's too young (and if you watched the Kangaroo's game you would have noted he seems to want to mark with his forehead), M Gardiner's gone (apparently), Allen's a puppy, Ferguson doesn't get a sniff, and Van Rheenen's shown very little.

Look, it seems he and Dal will be tossed up as trade bait. If he goes, he goes, so maybe all your dreams will come true.

But I say work with what we have, find a way to make Kos more consistent, fine a way to make his presence on the ground damaging, and get on with it.

Culling him IMO does nothing positive.

In MY view.


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Post: # 654364Post St DAC »

Spot on Thinline, well said.


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Post: # 654392Post WayneJudson42 »

Richter wrote:As so often Kosi is judged by the pressure of the pick at which he was taken, and against Nick Roewoldt who was taken one above him.

Take those things away and you're left with a B grade player who perfprms 2 vital roles in the team - back-up ruck and forward marking target.

Not quite the superstar we were hoping he would be but around the 10-15 mark out of our starting 22. That's ok.
Good point...

On that logic, the same should apply to Fiora, then?


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