Invasion ruined Saints' momentum in 2004 prelim, says Thomas

[Banger2Plugger]

The technology is available, and used my police in many crowd situations - they should stand shoulder to shoulder with the AFL, Stadium Management and State Government and annouce that invaders will be found and will be charged.

The more they make this stand, and FOLLOW UP - and make the fines - more people will have a second thought.

At the moment people think it is safe in numbers, but would be gutless to do so on their own.

[desertsaint]

Watching the game there was no doubt in my mind it caused a massive momentum shift - i remember screaming at the idiots.

(conspiracy theorists believe the invaders to be port supporters in our colours - but of course there couldn't be that many intelligent port supporters available, nor enough that could afford a new shirt just for the occasion).

In a game decided by less than a kick it probably did cost us the game - just as the idiot invader cost the socceroos a win against iran years ago. It also won germany a world cup final in 1990 (bad luck the ref miscalled a blatant dive).

Mock Thomas all you want but luck does play its part in deciding games and seasons (2006 - 11 six day breaks, horrendous injuries, 7 interstate games, in brisbane rnd 22 - 6 days later qualifying final in melbourne and no bench left by half time) to suggest otherwise is ignorant in the extreme.

Our problem as Saints supporters is that due to our lack of success we seem to dwell on all the bad luck and forget when it fell our way (has it ever? i forget!)

[plugger66]

Cannot beleive some of the rubbish written on here. he was asked a question because of what is likely to happen in the next couple of weeks and as he is the media he answered it. What should he say no comment and how does what he has said even impact slightly in what is going to happen this Sunday. It doesnt.

Some of you need to realise he employed by the media not the saints or should he quit to make a few GT haters happy. Think of another excuse why we are going poorly as any GT says isnt the reason.

[jonesy]

Anyone got the time of the first quarter it happened? Must of been around the 7-8 minute mark....

Inside 50's 19-5. Absolute domination for the entire quarter apart from the five minutes after the run on. We destroyed them after they kicked those few,but couldn't put any scoreboard pressure on whatsoever. Had every possible chance to put them away more than once. Couldn't,didn't,we lose again. Thomas clutching at straws on this one.

19-5 FFS!! That should be at least a 30 point lead

And we went in level. No excuses please....if you go in level after 19-5 inside 50's there is something wrong and without question the reason we lost the prelim........and the joke umpiring we copped in the second half....and Sniperneen kicking 2 out of his arse. But really,should of put them away ...19-5.

[HarveysDeciple]

Anyone got the time of the first quarter it happened? Must of been around the 7-8 minute mark....

Inside 50's 19-5. Absolute domination for the entire quarter apart from the five minutes after the run on. We destroyed them after they kicked those few,but couldn't put any scoreboard pressure on whatsoever. Had every possible chance to put them away more than once. Couldn't,didn't,we lose again. Thomas clutching at straws on this one.

19-5 FFS!! That should be at least a 30 point lead

And we went in level. No excuses please....if you go in level after 19-5 inside 50's there is something wrong and without question the reason we lost the prelim........and the joke umpiring we copped in the second half....and Sniperneen kicking 2 out of his arse. But really,should of put them away ...19-5.

agreed.

With the invasion we should have led 8 goals to 2.

without the invasion we may have led 9 goals to zip.

Either way the game should have been over.

One thing I will say though, despite the fact we should have won anyway, the run on did halt our momentum even if only for just a moment, and reality suggests it was always going to do that which makes the fans who did it a little foolish.

[evertonfc]

Pffft, it was great fun. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. That was half the fun of going to Adelaide. Everyone is forgetting the context of that night and they look at the end result. We all felt fine about it considering it was so early in the game.

Had it been in the second half, no way. Besides, we led at three-quarter time after being behind at 1/2 time. So - freeze frame - it was the last 30 minutes that counted.

You know, we led at three-quarter time vs Sydney in 2005 and vs Melbourne in 2006 - and dropped both of those two. I think the main issue has been overlooked to be honest...

A certain prominant forum member got out to Gehrig so quickly, but I never figured out how he did it. Even though we lost, what a great game. Our players gave their all to the end.

...back in the days when our players actually gave a toss...

Cue the abuse below...

[degruch]

Pffft, it was great fun. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. That was half the fun of going to Adelaide. Everyone is forgetting the context of that night and they look at the end result. We all felt fine about it considering it was so early in the game.

Had it been in the second half, no way. Besides, we led at three-quarter time after being behind at 1/2 time. So - freeze frame - it was the last 30 minutes that counted.

You know, we led at three-quarter time vs Sydney in 2005 and vs Melbourne in 2006 - and dropped both of those two. I think the main issue has been overlooked to be honest...

A certain prominant forum member got out to Gehrig so quickly, but I never figured out how he did it. Even though we lost, what a great game. Our players gave their all to the end.

...back in the days when our players actually gave a toss...

Cue the abuse below...

Your address please...I'm loading the gun. If I could have reached you on the day, I wouldn't need to waste the bullets!

[evertonfc]

Your address please...I'm loading the gun. If I could have reached you on the day, I wouldn't need to waste the bullets!

I've got no grudges against fans who put their own money up to support the club interstate. We might never see another St Kilda player kick 100 goals, so of course the fans were going to run on. Blown out of proportion. Besides, I only went on because everyone else did too

My address? You'll find me on Beaconsfield Pde, Port Melbourne. But I'm not telling where (I don't want to die, I like the view of the bay )

[Solar]

hey everton, the funny thing is that so many arm chair experts who didn't make the effort to get there continue to fire off shots at those who were there.

Those who want to have a look will notice that at least half of the first 100 invaders were port fans. Plus we all knew what was going to happen. As has been mentioned the game should have been over by then. Remind me who was in front at three quarter time?

It was an awesome game, so many great supporters went over to fly the flag. We lost, hell we lost the prelim the next year.

Anyone who wants to shoot a passionate supporter who drove 10 hours to see the game, let me know cause I will give you my address.

[degruch]

hey everton, the funny thing is that so many arm chair experts who didn't make the effort to get there continue to fire off shots at those who were there.

Those who want to have a look will notice that at least half of the first 100 invaders were port fans. Plus we all knew what was going to happen. As has been mentioned the game should have been over by then. Remind me who was in front at three quarter time?

It was an awesome game, so many great supporters went over to fly the flag. We lost, hell we lost the prelim the next year.

Anyone who wants to shoot a passionate supporter who drove 10 hours to see the game, let me know cause I will give you my address.

Meh...can't be bothered spending $9,000 on petrol to drive the 10 hours to shoot the two of you. Needless to say, it's history, but it goes down in history as one of the more stupid moments in St Kilda's history...I spent a good 12 months being laughed at by Port supporters who raised the ground invasion...a lot. You guys owe me some ammo to fire back at them. I guess, you could say it's unlikely Port players will have to worry about a ground invasion any time soon!

[Solar]

hey everton, the funny thing is that so many arm chair experts who didn't make the effort to get there continue to fire off shots at those who were there.

Those who want to have a look will notice that at least half of the first 100 invaders were port fans. Plus we all knew what was going to happen. As has been mentioned the game should have been over by then. Remind me who was in front at three quarter time?

It was an awesome game, so many great supporters went over to fly the flag. We lost, hell we lost the prelim the next year.

Anyone who wants to shoot a passionate supporter who drove 10 hours to see the game, let me know cause I will give you my address.

Meh...can't be bothered spending $9,000 on petrol to drive the 10 hours to shoot the two of you. Needless to say, it's history, but it goes down in history as one of the more stupid moments in St Kilda's history...I spent a good 12 months being laughed at by Port supporters who raised the ground invasion...a lot. You guys owe me some ammo to fire back at them. I guess, you could say it's unlikely Port players will have to worry about a ground invasion any time soon!

oh wow you have port fans to deal with, over here we have carlton supporters, pies supporters, essendon supporters... ever been to geelong??

Can I point out it happened half way through the first quarter, yes first quarter????? thats 3 and a half quarters more to play. Thats like suggesting an injury stoppage in the first quarter could cost a team a flag

[degruch]

hey everton, the funny thing is that so many arm chair experts who didn't make the effort to get there continue to fire off shots at those who were there.

Those who want to have a look will notice that at least half of the first 100 invaders were port fans. Plus we all knew what was going to happen. As has been mentioned the game should have been over by then. Remind me who was in front at three quarter time?

It was an awesome game, so many great supporters went over to fly the flag. We lost, hell we lost the prelim the next year.

Anyone who wants to shoot a passionate supporter who drove 10 hours to see the game, let me know cause I will give you my address.

Meh...can't be bothered spending $9,000 on petrol to drive the 10 hours to shoot the two of you. Needless to say, it's history, but it goes down in history as one of the more stupid moments in St Kilda's history...I spent a good 12 months being laughed at by Port supporters who raised the ground invasion...a lot. You guys owe me some ammo to fire back at them. I guess, you could say it's unlikely Port players will have to worry about a ground invasion any time soon!

oh wow you have port fans to deal with, over here we have carlton supporters, pies supporters, essendon supporters... ever been to geelong??

Can I point out it happened half way through the first quarter, yes first quarter????? thats 3 and a half quarters more to play. Thats like suggesting an injury stoppage in the first quarter could cost a team a flag

Yeah mate, been to Geelong heaps...roll Cats supporters together with Filth supporters and you've got Port supporters. Easy! Well, say what you like about the incident...I was f*****' fuming, you guys had fun, but if you think it didn't matter, look at the OP. Of course, there were other reasons we didn't win, but at least the team had control of those reasons.

[Solar]

hey everton, the funny thing is that so many arm chair experts who didn't make the effort to get there continue to fire off shots at those who were there.

Those who want to have a look will notice that at least half of the first 100 invaders were port fans. Plus we all knew what was going to happen. As has been mentioned the game should have been over by then. Remind me who was in front at three quarter time?

It was an awesome game, so many great supporters went over to fly the flag. We lost, hell we lost the prelim the next year.

Anyone who wants to shoot a passionate supporter who drove 10 hours to see the game, let me know cause I will give you my address.

Meh...can't be bothered spending $9,000 on petrol to drive the 10 hours to shoot the two of you. Needless to say, it's history, but it goes down in history as one of the more stupid moments in St Kilda's history...I spent a good 12 months being laughed at by Port supporters who raised the ground invasion...a lot. You guys owe me some ammo to fire back at them. I guess, you could say it's unlikely Port players will have to worry about a ground invasion any time soon!

oh wow you have port fans to deal with, over here we have carlton supporters, pies supporters, essendon supporters... ever been to geelong??

Can I point out it happened half way through the first quarter, yes first quarter????? thats 3 and a half quarters more to play. Thats like suggesting an injury stoppage in the first quarter could cost a team a flag

Yeah mate, been to Geelong heaps...roll Cats supporters together with Filth supporters and you've got Port supporters. Easy! Well, say what you like about the incident...I was f*****' fuming, you guys had fun, but if you think it didn't matter, look at the OP. Of course, there were other reasons we didn't win, but at least the team had control of those reasons.

so you think that if I had stayed on the other side of the fence the invasion would not have happened?

Personally I think it's a weak excuse and a pathetic stab a a group of passionate saints supporters.....

btw did the team have control over the port fans running on?

[plugger66]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

[degruch]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

I second that motion.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

Oh well... and if Stan had moved Shannahan off Jarmen...

All past. No point dwelling on it.

True. The way Jarman played, only Cowboy would have "quietened" him! Maybe Lazar, if he hadn't done his knee, might have provided some body contact as well.

Rumour had it that Stan warned players to quickly settle, play footy, and not get involved in any physical stuff... or they'd be dragged.

We stood there (only could get standing room tickets) waiting for Hall to go berserk, but to no avail.

Yet they went straight to Harvey and ironed him out.

You'd think we would have targeted a few pre-game.

the one time we needed the boxer just to lay off a few...nope nothing

bloody good forward line we had that year too

[Winmar7Fan]

Leaving Shanahan on Jarman could have cost us the 97 flag as well so it will always be painfully remembered. I'm sure every team going into the finals that bombs out has one of these curses to stew over but at the end of the day the better team one on the day simple as that.

[jonesy]

Yeah,if only our players had a dip in the 05 Prelim we would of won the flag....

[maverick]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

Isn't that our problem, so mentally weak that we look to this as a MAJOR factor.

I agree it didn't help, I was there, it certainly slowed our momentum, but it was so early in the game there's every chance it would have happened anyway

[maverick]

Your address please...I'm loading the gun. If I could have reached you on the day, I wouldn't need to waste the bullets!

I've got no grudges against fans who put their own money up to support the club interstate. We might never see another St Kilda player kick 100 goals, so of course the fans were going to run on. Blown out of proportion. Besides, I only went on because everyone else did too

My address? You'll find me on Beaconsfield Pde, Port Melbourne. But I'm not telling where (I don't want to die, I like the view of the bay )

I was there and wanted to run on, only person in members area looking to do so, just couldn't work out how I was going to get back to my seat...

Enjoyed the night immensely, enjoyed the next year even more!!

Reckon AAMI is a great interstate trip....

[evertonfc]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

Isn't that our problem, so mentally weak that we look to this as a MAJOR factor.

I agree it didn't help, I was there, it certainly slowed our momentum, but it was so early in the game there's every chance it would have happened anyway

End of discussion.

Don't worry, in hindsight we realise it probably didn't help, but FFS - those 5-6000 St Kilda fans there that night, who made an almighty wall of noise, were probably worth a couple of goals on their own.

I've got no doubt the noise made by the fans - some of the most passionate Sainters I've seen - lifted the team, certainly during the third term.

[degruch]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

Isn't that our problem, so mentally weak that we look to this as a MAJOR factor.

I agree it didn't help, I was there, it certainly slowed our momentum, but it was so early in the game there's every chance it would have happened anyway

I don't think we were mentally weak that game at all...the team was very keyed up, which was part of the problem. I think it was Max I spotted throwing a punch at someone (sounds about right anyway), Roo was mightily pissed off too, shoving people away...they guys were expending a fair amount of emotional energy for 5 minutes or so. G was off the ground for a while, and they put about 4 goals on us before the team regrouped.

I agree with the post that mentioned GT should have had the team retreat to the interchange while it went on, stick together as a group. It WAS a pretty major event, as it was an interstate gig. Show me a team or a coach that wants 300 people to stampede into the middle of their game!?!

Was a great game, bloody shame we lost.

[Teflon]

This is strange coming from the coach - an admission of failure!

Fact 1 - Did we want Fraser to get heaps of goals, and therefore, his 100 that night? Yes.
Fact 2 - Was there ever ANY chance that at least some people would run onto the ground at the time? No.
Fact 3 - Was there any way the it could be choreographed so that it happened when PA had the momentum? No.
Fact 4 - Should the coach had planned for the eventuality by ensuring that the players either kept focus if we had the mo, or talked about re focusing if they had the mo? Yes.
Fact 5 - Did this happen? Well, from what we saw on the night and what has now been 'revealed', the answer is NO! The sight of players trying to shoo people from the ground was ridiculous. They should have sprinted to the dug out - left Fraser to security - and talked about the above - and there is no reason why the coach could not have come down and been part of it.

There are some things that teams, coaches, players can control - and some that they can't. 100% focus on the former is the go.

I might say, having been reasonably satisfied with the performance of Thomas (except for his decision to drop Jason Blake for rounds 11 and 12 in 2004, which did cost us the flag - you idiot), everything that has happened since demonstrates why he was not fit to coach - he over complicates everything and never talks about skills. As to his successor, time will tell, and in St Kilda terms, that's a very short time.

There is no doubt this incident cost us momentum but you hit the nail on the head - GT doesnt talk skills for 1 very good reason....hes a "corporate salesman" (not an insult thats what hes good at) NOT an AFL coach with a technical grasp of the game which youd need to pinpoint skill deficiencies and corrections. Its why Thomas dabbled in the "mind" stuff with his "mental toughness"....which leaves me wondering....how "mentally tough" were we? - again the "mind" stuff is spot on you need to motivate (and jury is out for Ross Lyon in this area for me...)...in many respects I see Lyon as technically qualified and Thomas as mentally qualified and "nevre the tw!ts shall meet"....(thats how it goes I think..)

Ah well ...all academic now...except Grant Thomas cant be real busy cause all he does is moan about "glory days".......theres a song there..

Move on Grant - we have.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

Isn't that our problem, so mentally weak that we look to this as a MAJOR factor.

I agree it didn't help, I was there, it certainly slowed our momentum, but it was so early in the game there's every chance it would have happened anyway

we are weak as supporters if we continue to harp on about something that happened nearly 4 years ago

very weak

[Teflon]

I must say I didnt like it when guys ran out on the ground. yes there was a long time to go and we will never know if it cost a win but the one thing I know for sure is that IT DIDNT f****** WELL HELP.

Isn't that our problem, so mentally weak that we look to this as a MAJOR factor.

I agree it didn't help, I was there, it certainly slowed our momentum, but it was so early in the game there's every chance it would have happened anyway

we are weak as supporters if we continue to harp on about something that happened nearly 4 years ago

very weak

yep.

Imagine if we released a "streak" video cause we strung a few together...whats Geelongs now......37 from 39?...

glory days...