Eleven reasons why we won't win another game in 2008

[perfectionist]

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing.

[Mr Magic]

...Perfectionist, I think you are being particularly harsh on Max and not giving him the kudos he deserves.

If you want to win a flag you must start at full back - and you need a star, not a plodder. Simple as that, as history has shown.

Like D. Wakelin at Port Adelaide?

I just cannot understand your apparent animosity towards Max.

You seem to view whatever faults he has using extreme magnification, whilst at teh same time belittling his undoubted talent at doing what all full-backs are supposed to do first and foremost - stop their opponent scoring.

[Sobraz]

(Quote)

"BAM! (shhhh) wrote:

How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing

(Quote)




Hardly ever played on the gun forwards tho... always hidden (and cleverly so by Sheedy to utilise his offensive/ step up skills) on the lesser forwards...

Max is a great stopper/spoiler... For mine, the less time with the ball in his hands, the better... but when it comes to stopping a dangerous forward, there are none better...

[perfectionist]

Wakelin was better than Max, but not star. Our worst decision to get rid of them. And Port stole our premiership anyway. If they had any decency, they'd give us the cup!

[perfectionist]

(Quote)

"BAM! (shhhh) wrote:

How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing

Hardly ever played on the gun forwards tho... always hidden (and cleverly so by Sheedy to utilise his offensive/ step up skills) on the lesser forwards... (Quote)




Max is a great stopper/spoiler... For mine, the less time with the ball in his hands, the better... but when it comes to stopping a dangerous forward, there are none better...

OK, you are blind supporter of the club. Fine. But leave it at that. That dumb old Sheedy playing that hack Fletcher all those years, he even gave that plodder Hird a game. Geez.

[Sobraz]

(Quote)

"BAM! (shhhh) wrote:

How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing

Hardly ever played on the gun forwards tho... always hidden (and cleverly so by Sheedy to utilise his offensive/ step up skills) on the lesser forwards... (Quote)




Max is a great stopper/spoiler... For mine, the less time with the ball in his hands, the better... but when it comes to stopping a dangerous forward, there are none better...

OK, you are blind supporter of the club. Fine. But leave it at that. That dumb old Sheedy playing that hack Fletcher all those years, he even gave that plodder Hird a game. Geez.

Did max beat pointless both fevola and Buddy 2 weeks running??... surely you concede that...

[perfectionist]

(Quote)

"BAM! (shhhh) wrote:

How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing

Hardly ever played on the gun forwards tho... always hidden (and cleverly so by Sheedy to utilise his offensive/ step up skills) on the lesser forwards... (Quote)




Max is a great stopper/spoiler... For mine, the less time with the ball in his hands, the better... but when it comes to stopping a dangerous forward, there are none better...

OK, you are blind supporter of the club. Fine. But leave it at that. That dumb old Sheedy playing that hack Fletcher all those years, he even gave that plodder Hird a game. Geez.

Did max beat pointless both fevola and Buddy 2 weeks running??... surely you concede that...

Yes, and don't call me Shirley!

The work of the mid fielders who put pressure on Judd, Murphy,etc and Mitchell, etc. had something to do with it. Do you concede?

[Animal Enclosure]

Wakelin was better than Max, but not star. Our worst decision to get rid of them. And Port stole our premiership anyway. If they had any decency, they'd give us the cup!

Ah Darryl's trade gave us Aaron Hamill & Shane's delisting was due to our doctors at the time advising that he would never play again due to a golden staff infection in his achilles.

Hamill was a fantastic trade, unfortunately a great St Kilda career shortened by injury (which is still hurting us now).

Shane was always a bit part player at St Kilda before Malthouse turned him into a solid player & nothing more.

Once again Perfectionist, your posts don't reflect your tag name. Max is a gun, is twice the fullback Darryl Wakelin was & you're just embarrassing yourself arguing otherwise. You're welcome to your opinion though (even if it reflects poorly on you).

[bobmurray]

perfectionist..whilst you are of course entitled to your opinion, your constant criticism of #8 does you no favours IMHO

He obviously was still hampered with injury last night but you seem to take every opportuinity to have a crack, yet remain silent when he plays well.

Very disrespectful to the best fullback weve had in a very long time, since Bob Murray Id dare to say

Are you saying that Max is better than Spud....big call....

[perfectionist]

Wakelin was better than Max, but not star. Our worst decision to get rid of them. And Port stole our premiership anyway. If they had any decency, they'd give us the cup!

Ah Darryl's trade gave us Aaron Hamill & Shane's delisting was due to our doctors at the time advising that he would never play again due to a golden staff infection in his achilles.

Hamill was a fantastic trade, unfortunately a great St Kilda career shortened by injury (which is still hurting us now).

Shane was always a bit part player at St Kilda before Malthouse turned him into a solid player & nothing more.

Once again Perfectionist, your posts don't reflect your tag name. Max is a gun, is twice the fullback Darryl Wakelin was & you're just embarrassing yourself arguing otherwise. You're welcome to your opinion though (even if it reflects poorly on you).

Very good points, which are all wrong. We got Hamill because he was out of contract, wanted more money and would have been able to go to a club that finished lower on the ladder than Carlton ie us - stone motherless last! Our coach (oh, brother) did not rate either Wakelin. When you consider the amount of work Stan Alves put into these boys, you remember Stan, the man who got us to our fifth GF ever, and who was white anted by one MAX, said idiot coach said 'goodbye' to the Wakelins. (We got zip for Shane!)

Two good things came out of the trade. We got Hamill and Carlton got Cranage, but I suppose you thought he was a "gun" too!

Grow up! Wake up and smell the roses!

[Mr Magic]

Our coach (oh, brother) did not rate either Wakelin. When you consider the amount of work Stan Alves put into these boys, you remember Stan, the man who got us to our fifth GF ever, and who was white anted by one MAX, said idiot coach said 'goodbye' to the Wakelins. (We got zip for Shane!)

Maybe we are finally seeing the real source of Perfectionist's lack of approval for Max?

Do you know for a fact what you have alleged Max to have done?

I only ask because for a number of years it was 'hinted at'. 'inferred' and 'rumoured' that it was Harvey, Burke and Loewe.
No proof was ever given, to my knowledge, on those accusations either?

[perfectionist]

[quote="Mr Magic"]
Do you know for a fact what you have alleged Max to have done?
quote]

Yes. But if he played like Fletcher or Scarlett or Michael or Glass.... I would probably overlook it.

Look at what Robert Harvey said about his coaches last Monday night. Isn't that the position that all players should adopt? Max didn't. He sooked and Alves went - as did our prospects of a flag at the time. Our time with a coach who knew the value of skills, knew that all players didn't have them at the start and set programs to improve them (admittedly really tough programs) also finished. Alas, a practice of the past and we can see the results.

[saintspremiers]

number 8.... seriously... you are disturbed

Max - Kicking: 2 out of ten
- Contested marking: 0 out of ten (never taken one)
- Uncontested marking: 3 out of ten (punches anywhere most times)
- Thinking: 1 out of ten (there's a man who's covered, I'll kick to him)
- Hard running: 5 out of ten (cf Scarlett)
- Fisting ball from pass to opponent: 8 out of ten
- Foolish courage: 10 out of ten

Unfortunately, whilst foolish courage might attract hero worshippers it is not high on the list of football skills.

Hey maestro, have you considered that perhaps Max was only half fit?

We do afterall play players well below full fitness nowadays.

Max IMO will be heaps better vs Freo assuming a higher fitness base.

[WayneJudson42]

(Quote)

"BAM! (shhhh) wrote:

How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing

Hardly ever played on the gun forwards tho... always hidden (and cleverly so by Sheedy to utilise his offensive/ step up skills) on the lesser forwards... (Quote)




Max is a great stopper/spoiler... For mine, the less time with the ball in his hands, the better... but when it comes to stopping a dangerous forward, there are none better...

OK, you are blind supporter of the club. Fine. But leave it at that. That dumb old Sheedy playing that hack Fletcher all those years, he even gave that plodder Hird a game. Geez.

Did max beat pointless both fevola and Buddy 2 weeks running??... surely you concede that...

Yes, and don't call me Shirley!

The work of the mid fielders who put pressure on Judd, Murphy,etc and Mitchell, etc. had something to do with it. Do you concede?

When Judd was killing us in the 4th, our defence including Max looked very average IMO.

[WayneJudson42]

...Perfectionist, I think you are being particularly harsh on Max and not giving him the kudos he deserves.

I do say what he can do, but I'm honest about he weaknesses. Just why some players should be immune from criticism whilst others get bagged remorselessly is quite amusing. If you want to win a flag you must start at full back - and you need a star, not a plodder. Simple as that, as history has shown.

Once upon a time, there was a thing called a "spine"...

FB, CHB, C, CHF, FF.

Currently, we have no (pure) FB or CHB... and now we have no FF.

In short, we have no spine. We alternate between Gwilt, Fish and Gilbert.

The game has evolved, and like Gherig @ FF, the traditional full back's role has changed also. That's why Scarlett is now the quintessential FB.

Even Michael is now impotent because of teams playing without traditional FF's.

It's a catch 22.

[perfectionist]

...Perfectionist, I think you are being particularly harsh on Max and not giving him the kudos he deserves.

I do say what he can do, but I'm honest about he weaknesses. Just why some players should be immune from criticism whilst others get bagged remorselessly is quite amusing. If you want to win a flag you must start at full back - and you need a star, not a plodder. Simple as that, as history has shown.

Once upon a time, there was a thing called a "spine"...

FB, CHB, C, CHF, FF.

Currently, we have no (pure) FB or CHB... and now we have no FF.

In short, we have no spine. We alternate between Gwilt, Fish and Gilbert.

The game has evolved, and like Gherig @ FF, the traditional full back's role has changed also. That's why Scarlett is now the quintessential FB.

Even Michael is now impotent because of teams playing without traditional FF's.

It's a catch 22.

True. To be fair, our spine was looked pretty good with Matt Maguire at CHB and Luke Penny at FB. Throw in the two Fishers, Aussie and Max in a role that actually suits his abilities, and it was as good as any in 2004 and 2005. It is not the fault of the current players that our current line up does not have the same strength, but it is also no good pretending that we have "guns" everywhere but strangely just can't win.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

BAM! (shhhh) wrote:
How many flags actually playing fullback? (hint: the guy who played fullback in 2000 is a 2 flag winning fullback, but isn't Fletcher). Last 5 years regularly beaten by leading forwards.

Fletcher almost always played at full back - you drongo - and was named All Australian last year - you know 2007 - and it wasn't for his play on the wing.

psst. Damien Hardwick... Essendon couldn't hold onto him because of salary cap reasons. But if you want to judge positions on where people are named in the AA team, you go right ahead. Dusting Fletcher was such a great fullback in '07 that when they played Hawthorn he wasn't first picked to take the most dangerous tall forward... yup, definately there for defensive skills first(great that you've got two of your choices for great fullbacks of the last 5 years on the 1 team last year).

Drongo? What is this saintsational back paddock edition? If you're out bush and can't get to games, just say so and I'll stop expecting you to know what you're talking about.