Training- Report? Pics?

[saintsRrising]

Everyone on our list was there, including rookies, except for Joey, Van Rheenan and Sam Gilbert.

I saw Van Rheenan before the session outside the ground. I believe he may be having some sort of op this week.

Latest Injury List

Injury list as of Monday April 28:

Jayden Attard – ACL reconstruction, 7-9 weeks

Glenn Chivers – left foot injury, 5-7 weeks

Michael Gardiner – calf, testing

Sam Gilbert – shoulder: grade 3 displaced AC joint, 5-7 weeks
Steven King – hamstring, 1-2 weeks
Luke Miles – stress fracture in fibula, 1-3 weeks

Adam Schneider – hamstring, testing

Luke van Rheenen – mid foot ligament injury, 2-3 weeks

[matrix]

hmm u never know, they might rest Dal for this game if he has a niggling shoulder.
i mean really , we should beat the tigers.

[st.byron]

anyone know off the top of their head how many games Dal has played in succession?

[Ralphy]

anyone know off the top of their head how many games Dal has played in succession?

110 i think

[Dan Warna]

wrt lynch v FG

lynch rarely ventured more than 20m from teh goal mouth. Also he played in relatively warm to mild conditions for much of the year.

FG is required to run, last year I think spent lest than 50% of his time in the F50.

this would much harder on his frame than how lynch played.

if he can't play RLs game plan, then he's a liability, remember we are st kilda not brisbane

[Saints43]

who is the guy next to Ross

At first look I thought it was Greg Hutchinson (Casey Coach) but I'm not certain.

I thought it was Michael Palin.

[bigcarl]

wrt lynch v FG

lynch rarely ventured more than 20m from teh goal mouth. Also he played in relatively warm to mild conditions for much of the year.

FG is required to run, last year I think spent lest than 50% of his time in the F50.

this would much harder on his frame than how lynch played.

if he can't play RLs game plan, then he's a liability, remember we are st kilda not brisbane

change the game plan and make an exception for fraser to include our most effective avenue to goal

[Mr Magic]

wrt lynch v FG

lynch rarely ventured more than 20m from teh goal mouth. Also he played in relatively warm to mild conditions for much of the year.

FG is required to run, last year I think spent lest than 50% of his time in the F50.

this would much harder on his frame than how lynch played.

if he can't play RLs game plan, then he's a liability, remember we are st kilda not brisbane

change the game plan and make an exception for fraser to include our most effective avenue to goal

And Scarlett would still probably run off him.

[Dan Warna]

wrt lynch v FG

lynch rarely ventured more than 20m from teh goal mouth. Also he played in relatively warm to mild conditions for much of the year.

FG is required to run, last year I think spent lest than 50% of his time in the F50.

this would much harder on his frame than how lynch played.

if he can't play RLs game plan, then he's a liability, remember we are st kilda not brisbane

change the game plan and make an exception for fraser to include our most effective avenue to goal

<shrug> plenty of times when you control the midfield, the rebounding defender has been caught out when his man has been alone in the goal square

either way, he can't effectively run around the midfield and wings, rather have dempster or charlie gardiner than FG running around the back flanks than him.

if we play 1 out in the goal square, and teh defender runs off him, and we don't have a policy to pick up that running player, then is going to hurt us, if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

its up to the sleection panel, but selecting him and expecting him to run around the back line is as stupid as timmid putting burke on michael o'loughlin for a game.
And Scarlett would still probably run off him.

[bigcarl]

Lyon said he was still tempted to play Gehrig at Telstra Dome on Saturday night, given his past capacity to rip the Richmond defence apart.

Gehrig has kicked a total of 34 goals in seven games against Richmond over the past four seasons, including two hauls of five last year.

"He's got a very good record against Richmond, so he'll come under strong consideration," Lyon said.

[bigcarl]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

[plugger66]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

[bigcarl]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

then how would you explain lynch playing effectively (in premiership sides) into his mid-30s despite being unable to run and chase? surely the game hasn't changed that much, that quickly.
we should tailor a game plan to suit our list rather than the reverse.

[plugger66]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

then how would you explain lynch playing effectively (in premiership sides) into his mid-30s despite being unable to run and chase? surely the game hasn't changed that much, that quickly.
we should tailor a game plan to suit our list rather than the reverse.

Sounds like you are suiting one player.

[Mr Magic]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

then how would you explain lynch playing effectively (in premiership sides) into his mid-30s despite being unable to run and chase? surely the game hasn't changed that much, that quickly.

we should tailor a game plan to suit our list rather than the reverse.

Unacustomed as I am to agreeing with Plugger, the game has changed dramatically since then.

There was no 'Swans flood' back in those days which has been adopted (in some form or another) by all teams now.

[bigcarl]

well RL's on record as saying gehrig will come under strong consideration for saturday night. we shall see. he does average 5 goals per game against richmond in the past seven meetings

[sunsaint]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

the game hasnt changed that much
I can remember a late 80's game out at the western oval and lockett had two kicked by the fullback running off him. Copped it by rabbid doggies squelling for joy that day.
I am a big fan of Gehrig in the goalsquare with milne at this feet, Kosi next at 25-45mt, and then Roo roaming between 50mt and wing.
The argument that Scarlett ran off Gehrig is BS, no Gehrig and Scarlett would have been running off Kosi. Its how he plays.

[plugger66]

if we can win the turnovers, it will be a matter of kicking to an ungaurded player in the goal square.

used to hear the same thing about lockett as he got older and less mobile, particularly during his time at the swans.

"you can run off him etc, etc," was the argument.

but teams often found out to their detriment that it was folly to leave the big guy unguarded as he would smash them on the rebound every time.

it's hard to argue with goals on the board.

if it were me i'd instruct fraser not to chase his opponent out of defence and to save his energy for kicking goals

Maybe thats why Pluggers comeback was no good. Footy has changed. If you dont go with your man they will use him and he may even kick or set up many goals. With the saints being so far into the other sides forward line even if we get a turnover we are to far away to use G so we move the ball slowly and by that time everyone is manned up.

the game hasnt changed that much
I can remember a late 80's game out at the western oval and lockett had two kicked by the fullback running off him. Copped it by rabbid doggies squelling for joy that day.
I am a big fan of Gehrig in the goalsquare with milne at this feet, Kosi next at 25-45mt, and then Roo roaming between 50mt and wing.
The argument that Scarlett ran off Gehrig is BS, no Gehrig and Scarlett would have been running off Kosi. Its how he plays.

Why would you have Milney near a leading forward. How can he crump off a lead. He needs to be near where there will be a contest and the ball spills off a pack.

[ace]

Full backs run off dangerous full forwards to get the full forward out of position.
Moronic imbeciles masquerading as coaches require the full forward to chase the full back everywhere.
Intelligent coaches require the full forward to stay in position, and have someone else pick up the full back.
The full forward without an opponent then burns the oppostion every turnover.
Unfortunately Ross Lyon requires all players to man up on their immediate opponent and does not have the intelligence to be flexible.
He can't find the flexibility in the Sydney game plan manual.

PS That is the Sydney game plan manual he is looking at in the photos.

[groupie1]

"The argument that Scarlett ran off Gehrig is BS, no Gehrig and Scarlett would have been running off Kosi. Its how he plays."

couldn't agree more... there's too many 12 year olds on this forum talking about 'the game's changed' - because that's what they read - they read their opinion of the week in the HeraldSun and talk it up like they thought of it

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Full backs run off dangerous full forwards to get the full forward out of position.
Moronic imbeciles masquerading as coaches require the full forward to chase the full back everywhere.
Intelligent coaches require the full forward to stay in position, and have someone else pick up the full back.
The full forward without an opponent then burns the oppostion every turnover.
Unfortunately Ross Lyon requires all players to man up on their immediate opponent and does not have the intelligence to be flexible.
He can't find the flexibility in the Sydney game plan manual.

PS That is the Sydney game plan manual he is looking at in the photos.

Well, it depends on the opponent. It's not necessary to have your forward responsible for the same man who covers him when the forward is trying to win the ball.

On one hand, part of the essence of good forward pressure is workrate allowing there to be fewer forwards chasing then there are backmen seeking possession so your zone ro flood or whatever can create a numbers advantage for you. Similarly, it's becoming more and more common for teams to leave the most likely to turnover the ball open in the backline while creating this advantage. Opposition clubs are quite happy for Hudghton to build up cheap disposal, as he's never been a great user of the ball. We can all recollect instances of Jason Blake being left open to gain a possession, and when the ump calls play on a forward who hadn't been chasing suddenly mows him down from behind.

Against a Scarlett or a Milburn, allowing them free reign is going to hurt... but forward like Welsh when he played for Adelaide built his career on covering such dangerous backs, and then being an excellent set shot if the defense didn't pay him his due on the rebound.

Some teams WILL attempt to take advantage of Gehrig. Given the amount of time we've seen him back of centre the last couple of years, I'd say it's not as easy as made out. The questions will be:
1) can we exploit it via pressure from others to get goals in exchange for cheap possessions.
2) Can we use it to make teams attempt to rebound through players without the skills.
3) Do we have players we can use in a defensive forward capacity without hurting our ability to convert (e.g. a Raph Clarke, Shane Birss, Clinton Jones depending on the opponent).

[Mr Magic]

[quote="groupie1

... there's too many 12 year olds on this forum talking about 'the game's changed' - because that's what they read - they read their opinion of the week in the HeraldSun and talk it up like they thought of it[/quote]

A question for you?
Who died and made you the 'guru genius' of this forum?

If you seriously think that the game today is similar to the game of even 5 years ago then you need to go back to school with the '12 year olds' rather than presume to lecture everyone on where they derive their opinions from.

You don't need to be a genius to see it - just watching any game will be enough.

[The_Dud]

the reason the full back can freely run off G is because there is usually a "spare man" playing in defence who can cover him if there is a quick turn over

if Ross manned up the oppositions spare player, i'd like to see how keen the full back would be to leave G on his own in the forward 50

[rodgerfox]

then how would you explain lynch playing effectively (in premiership sides) into his mid-30s despite being unable to run and chase? surely the game hasn't changed that much, that quickly.
we should tailor a game plan to suit our list rather than the reverse.

5 words...

The. Best. Midfield. Ever. Assembled.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

then how would you explain lynch playing effectively (in premiership sides) into his mid-30s despite being unable to run and chase? surely the game hasn't changed that much, that quickly.
we should tailor a game plan to suit our list rather than the reverse.

5 words...

The. Best. Midfield. Ever. Assembled.

Oooh, I like that plan. Lets get one of those!